Car Goes Nuts On Ice?? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

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Metallman56
12-13-2010, 10:33 PM
this winter for one reason or anther my car will not track straight on slick roads. before you think i've got a bald tire, let me start off by saying all 4 of my tires have plenty of tread left on them. i used to work for discount tire, so i know i sh*t tire when i see one. nor are my tires some high performance summer only tire. there goodyear's tripple tread. i've had them on my car sense i bought it in 04 (2nd set) and the car has never done this. tires are all at 35 psi give or take a psi.

ok so now that its not the tires lets more on. heres what it does. anytime i go over 35 on a snow coverd road my car kicks to the left. then i have to correct to the right and i'm sure if i dont get off the gas it would end in a spin. the more slick the surface, the more extreme it wants to jolt into on coming traffic. also the slicker it is, means that it does this at a lesser speed. meaning this morning when i was driving on black ice, it wanted to vear left at about 25 mph. not fun at all when on black ice. its very hard to describe how it feels. its not quite the same feeling as a rear end coming around on a rwd car. and its not quite like a big gust of wind hitting the car while on the highway. really its a bit of both. i can feel the car moving to the left, then it feels like the back end is coming out.

my first thought was it needed a alienment (sp). i did replace a strut on it over the summer. right rear to be exact. and thought the tire could be slanted in a way that cause the rear to want to slip out. so i had a 4 wheel alienment done on thursday. all seemed well until we got dumbed on again with snow this weekend. this morning on the way to work the problem seemed worse. but the roads were also slicker then last week. so i'm really unsure wtf is going on.

i havent hit anything over the summer or anything crazy like that. though i admit i have not crawled under it yet and looked to see if it was anything obvious like something bent or broken.

my only other thought is that when i did the strut i used a monroe quike strut. which came with new springs and everything. the other 3 springs are stock but with kyb adjustables on them. so i dont know if that would matter, or make a differnce. i'm just trying to throw out everything i can think of.

one last thing i'd like to narrow down is its not just me. i've driven the car for the last 5 winters, this will be the 6th. i know what it does in the snow and slick conditions. just like i know what it does in the rain. when you've driven the same car for the past 6 years almost every day of your life, you come to know exactly what it does and exactly how it feels. it has never ever felt like this before.

any thoughts ideas, things i havent thoght of would be great. thanks guys!

yeah i know i cant spell, sorry.

Mike Jung
12-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Aren't you suppose to do the struts in pairs !!!?

I bet your suspension is not "balanced".

bricooper78
12-13-2010, 11:17 PM
difference in spring rates could influence the car, see if it goes weird on you while compressing/rebounding from a bump or hump in the road. maybe it's just enough difference in spring, combined with the slick weather...
at any rate, it's a weird problem, very weird. maybe your car hates that new unicorn sticker on the back bumper????? lol

Metallman56
12-14-2010, 07:50 AM
i suppose it could be out of balance. but wouldnt that make the car handle like crap? i just cant see spring rates causing me to vear to one side or anther. i guess the only way to find out if thats right is to drop $450 on 3 new struts. yikes. i'll consider that a last restort.

AaronGTR
12-14-2010, 08:50 AM
I would also suspect the suspension. You should NEVER use different brand/types of springs and struts between sides! You probably never notice anything on dry warm roads because the tires have enough grip to over come it, but on a slick surface it shows itself. The only other thing that I can think of that would make such an obvious difference is a dragging brake caliper, from either sticky slider pins or a caliper piston starting to freeze up.

I would probably check out the brakes first, and if you don't find anything wrong with those, at least replace the other rear strut/spring so they match. That won't be as expensive as doing all three and it should eliminate any difference that would make it pull sideways.

Metallman56
12-14-2010, 08:31 PM
i'm definalty going to check if i have a caliper slipping. hell i havent touched my rear brakes in years, so god only know what kind of shape those are in. also i should say when i try to stop it does the same thing, goes left. but only when its slick.

thanks for the idea aaron. i'll definatly check it out.

if theres no update it means my car slide itself off the road and i'm dead :(

rocketfast123
12-14-2010, 09:11 PM
I would also suspect the suspension. You should NEVER use different brand/types of springs and struts between sides!

I hate to say but I agree. ;crap

Think about if your left leg was 15 y/o and your right was 25y/o.

At lease do the complete front or rear at the same time. Tires are an another story.

bricooper78
12-14-2010, 09:16 PM
think of springs like a pair of basketballs.

one fully inflated, the other half inflated.

drop them both from chest level. they won't bounce the same. that is basically what a new spring/shock is doing against the other three. if you do the other rear it will at least balance the left/right condition out

stonemason90
12-14-2010, 09:33 PM
basically what the new spring is doing is pushing the car up stronger than the other side which causes a weight shift which in turn makes the rear end swing one way or the other. at the very least replace the other back strut/spring.... thatll at least balance out the back which should remove the problem.

bricooper78
12-14-2010, 09:35 PM
and on a side note,

your car would be killer at Bristol! lol

rocketfast123
12-14-2010, 11:01 PM
and on a side note,

your car would be killer at Bristol! lol

:applause:

AaronGTR
12-15-2010, 04:17 PM
I just noticed... the thread title sounds like the name of an icecapades show. lol If it involved Ken Block in a rally car with studded tires, I would go see "car goes nuts" on ice! :D

bricooper78
12-15-2010, 04:29 PM
LOL sequel to "Maximum Overdrive"

thakid22
12-15-2010, 07:01 PM
Your issue is one of two things... A sticky or frozen rear brake caliper, or the mismatched suspension you've created.

As already mentioned, struts should ALWAYS be installed in pairs. IDEALLY, you want to replace all 4 at the same time, with the same kind of strut.

Your KYB's are adjustable? Chances are they are much stiffer than that Monroe Quick Strut you put on. Adjust the 3 KYB's to max soft, and see if that improves your situation. That'll help them better match the damping rates of the softish MONROE you put on.

If there's no change, then you can start looking to see if you have a funky rear caliper.

The problem is most likely your struts.

Metallman56
12-20-2010, 05:28 PM
well sadly its not the breaks. took those apart this weekend, and they are are working fine. no wore pads on one side of the rotor and not on the other. also all were greased up just fine. which means its my struts. awesome.

to the above post all of my sturts were set at the softest setting. so now i'm going to put them all on the hardest setting to see just what happens. i think the new spring is the biggest issue. the other springs are stock and have about 115k miles on them. theres no way there as stiff as the new one. so what the hell, if its too bad it takes about a min to switch them all back. that is if i dont hit a tree before then.

cutlsp
12-21-2010, 05:37 AM
Shouldn't have used a quick strut to save time unless you intended to replace both rears together. Also you always replace suspension components in pairs not single parts keeps the car balanced that way. Your issues are from that quick strut and the new spring together because the back end of the car is no longer balanced.

psy7
12-21-2010, 08:28 AM
i cant really say because same thing happens to me and the suspension is stock car is aligned and brakes are fine but my car also hates the snow and ice

Metallman56
01-25-2011, 09:59 PM
ok so i changed my left rear strut to the exact same as the right rear. same result on ice. the car simply will not drive straight when the road is slick. now here is what i dont get. before the strut change when i would break the rear end would slide out to the right. now it brakes straight like it should. so the strut corrected the braking problem, but it still wont go straight while not braking. i'm kinda clueless.

thoughts?

cutlsp
01-25-2011, 10:07 PM
These cars have really bad torque steer problems common with front wheel drive cars not much you can do about not driving straight. At least when you brake it stops straight now. I can't think of any car that drives perfectly straight on ice. Unless they are the really fancy cars that claim to be able to handle ice well. Ice is slick and most cars will have issues on ice. Try starting off in second gear rather then drive and see if that helps any.

Metallman56
01-26-2011, 07:12 PM
to above, no, no no no no and no. thanks for the help but what you posted above helps me 0. if you would have read my first post you would have read the car has never done this is the past 6 years i have owned it. and i know ice is slick. i also know that starting on ice can be a pain, however sense my car is a gt that means that its a automatic, which also means i cant start in 2nd. or any other gear for that matter. please dont waste your time posting if your not going to read about the problem to begin with.

cutlsp
01-27-2011, 01:58 AM
Have you tried adding more tire pressure then factory spec? I know the car calls for 32psi I put in 35 psi all the way around in the winter and if the tires are hot. I know some people say to let air out of your tires in the winter but that is stupid and dangerous. As the car sits it loses 1-2 psi over night because of the cold air. So try adding a few more psi then it calls for. You could also have a bad tire have you had them road force tested? I've seen a few new good year tires come up with bad spots needing to be returned for a refund. I'm stumped on anything else that could be wrong with your car.

Ceej
01-27-2011, 08:04 AM
I would just go and check the balance of the tires. If they are off traction can be a nightmare

Metallman56
01-27-2011, 07:40 PM
tires were rotated and balanced in august

cutlsp
01-27-2011, 07:45 PM
Have you had a Road force Test done on these tires? Some tires do have bad spots in them even brands like good year tires.

Shade2012
01-29-2011, 03:01 PM
to above, no, no no no no and no. thanks for the help but what you posted above helps me 0. if you would have read my first post you would have read the car has never done this is the past 6 years i have owned it. and i know ice is slick. i also know that starting on ice can be a pain, however sense my car is a gt that means that its a automatic, which also means i cant start in 2nd. or any other gear for that matter. please dont waste your time posting if your not going to read about the problem to begin with.

Someone needs to look down at the shifter sometime..I have a gagt automatic..you can put your car in first, second, or third...

WidbyJ
01-29-2011, 04:59 PM
RTFM metallman. As a matter of fact the Owners Manual recommends starting from a stop in snow and/or on ice in second gear, 1st will be bypassed for less torque/more traction.

I run in 3rd around town all the time cause 4th is too fast. Sometimes I even down-shift to decelerate. Autos really don't mind being hand shifted within reason.

Odds are that due to age/wear your trans is starting to mis-behave and the slick conditions make it more noticeable. I'd have the filter changed and fluids topped off unless it was done recently...

Metallman56
01-29-2011, 05:59 PM
holy mother of god does no one read the original post anymore? do people just post in here to freaking post? what does anything in the last 2 posts have to do with the car not driving straight on ice? or maybe thats in the manual as well?

Someone needs to look down at the shifter sometime..I have a gagt automatic..you can put your car in first, second, or third...

oh so what your saying is if i put my trans in/on "d" or 4th if you will, from a dead start my trans will be in 4th gear? thats what your saying? so the entire time i've owned my car (6 years) i have only been in 4th gear cause thats the gear that i always select. or maybe just maybe you have no idea wtf your talking about. sure if i had a manual i could start in any gear i want. but i dont. its a auto. it starts in first gear every time. even if i put it in 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th. ok not every time. if i'm backing up it wont start in first. i feel like i had to say that cause if i didnt some freakin newb would call me out on it.

ok so lets get some crap straight in here.

1. there is nothing wrong with my trans.

2. this thread has nothing to do with my trans

3. starting on ice is not the problem

4. if you read my original post starting isnt even the freakin issue

5. if you dont want to take the extra 2 mins of time and read the first post that explans the issue, please dont take the 3 seconds it takes to post something that is has nothing to do with the problem.

6. there is nothing wrong with my tires. if there was a problem like a dead spot i would have had the same issue the past 2 winters these tires have been on the car. its not the tires.

i know i really sound like a d*ck right now but come on. i didnt make this thread so people could post dumb crap that doesnt help me at all. i need help to fix this issue. and to fix the issue you need to know the problem. hence reading the first freakin post. if your post has no info that could help me correct my problem, please do us both a favor and dont freaking post at all. go spam up some thread no one cares about. cause the fact is this is a serious issue that could possibly cause an accident. which i dont want. so please try to help me solve the problem.

thanks

stonemason90
01-29-2011, 07:05 PM
you said you had an alignment done.... did they check for camber and caster as well? because i know some places just check tow.(some dont even check rear tow which is a known problem with fwd rear suspension) if the camber is off it can cause the same problem.
edit... just reread and saw 4 wheel alignment so rear tow out of question... also cam bolts for the camber slip all the time potholes bumps and what not can throw the camber off. bad camber may not necessiarly cause a tow problem and a slight camber problems with pull if its not equal to the other side.... another sad fact is some shops use a wide margin of error which sometimes can cause problems downt he road. (ive seen up to 1/10th of a degree of difference between sides let go which can lead to problems)

cutlsp
01-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Lots of people have said to try to check the tires(at least get them rebalanced with a dynamic balance then a static balance)

Honestly what do you have to lose in re balancing the tires? You may have put the tires on but maybe one or 2 of your wheel weights fell off. When I install tires on cars with alloy wheels I ALWAYS do a Dynamic balance then a Static Balance on them. I've had vibration problems before where the cars pull like you describe and that is how I fixed them at the dealership I worked at. The cars never came back complaining about pulling after I worked on them so you tell me its not the tires balance i'm telling you its possible it is. Either have it checked or stop complaining about it. Just because they were serviced in august doesn't mean no wheel weights fell off in that amount of time.

Metallman56
01-30-2011, 04:53 PM
I will admit that tbe place I took it too was a place I had never went to before. My brogher had good luck with them so I decided to give it a try.

correct me if im wrong but when a wheel isnt balanced there is going to be a vibration. There is no vibration at all. Not at 5 mph or at 90 mph. Or anywhere inbetween.

cutlsp
01-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Sometimes Balancing issues are minimal enough that you can't notice them when your driving on dry pavement but when it gets to be winter time they are very noticeable. Especially on ice so I do advise you have your wheels and tires checked at a place you have researched online before taking your car there. It is very possible they did screw it up. If you do have to have the wheels and tires rebalanced make sure you get a Dynamic balance done first then a Static balance.

Also if they did only a Dynamic balance the vibrations wouldn't be noticeable but when you hit ice it would become very clear there are issues.

Metallman56
01-30-2011, 10:05 PM
Im just wondering wifh u being in dallas and all how many times have u driven on ice or in snow?

cutlsp
01-30-2011, 11:05 PM
I've driven in every snow storm that has hit Dallas since I was 16 I'm almost 28 now. I have also lived in areas farther north and driven in Ice and snow conditions before.