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akeemjvasser
12-07-2011, 07:10 PM
I want to change my exhaust system but im not really digging the average upgrades im seeing slps and borlas, and paces. i wanna know has anyone done the split rear exits on a 99 - 05 grand am, and if they are good ideas, why or why not.

[ChaosweaveR]
12-07-2011, 07:45 PM
You mean having a Y-pipe and then two mufflers?

I've seen it done, but it's not the best setup. These cars come with a crossflow muffler stock, they flow better than routing up two seperate mufflers, plus they're more expensive. Why bother? There's a reason why people use crossflows: better flow, simplier design and cheaper costs.

akeemjvasser
12-07-2011, 10:15 PM
really? i thought since it would flow straight out instead of going thru that big curve in the stock or aftermarket exhaust it would flow better.

[ChaosweaveR]
12-07-2011, 10:28 PM
No. It may curve, but the exhaust is only passing through one muffler, versus a Y-pipe and two mufflers.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 03:06 AM
Chaos is wrong...no surprise... Two mufflers will flow better than one in almost all cases.. Crossflow mufflers are not inherintly effecient, just an easy way for gm to have two pipes sticking out from under the rear bumper. The biggest pipe u can get thru the stock location over the rear crossmember is 3". Prob could run dual 2" under ur crossmember or better yet dump infront of your rear tires. U not looking at much of a dif in hp as compared to any other catback system, but it sure would sound different. And chaos and a few others seem to have a huge problem with grand am owners who want to try something diferent and unique. So anything beyond tinted stock taillights, clear corner headlights and wheels they approve of will be met with disdain. Dont expect any positive feedback from choas and his likes they will try to discourage anyone who wants to do something that makes his car look like the low effort and low dollar ride it is.

[ChaosweaveR]
12-08-2011, 05:11 AM
Chaos is wrong...no surprise... Two mufflers will flow better than one in almost all cases.. Crossflow mufflers are not inherintly effecient, just an easy way for gm to have two pipes sticking out from under the rear bumper. The biggest pipe u can get thru the stock location over the rear crossmember is 3". Prob could run dual 2" under ur crossmember or better yet dump infront of your rear tires. U not looking at much of a dif in hp as compared to any other catback system, but it sure would sound different. And chaos and a few others seem to have a huge problem with grand am owners who want to try something diferent and unique. So anything beyond tinted stock taillights, clear corner headlights and wheels they approve of will be met with disdain. Dont expect any positive feedback from choas and his likes they will try to discourage anyone who wants to do something that makes his car look like the low effort and low dollar ride it is.

Discourage posts from him. He's old and cranky, and doesn't type very well. And damnit, his crush on me is disgusting. Stupid old man.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 12:08 PM
chaos in my book you are no better than that dude with funny ga you are fighting with... this guy vame on here and asked a question about exhaust and you jumped on here proved you dont know what you are talking about. You can name call all you want but please be man enough.to admit that you just made up your answer to this guys question. Defend your position like a man or admit you are wrong. Please enlightin all of us and explain how a single crossflow muffler outflows a dual muffler set up....

[ChaosweaveR]
12-08-2011, 12:43 PM
Okay, why did SLP develop's the GA's loudmouth catback with a crossflow? Better design, better exhaust flow. It's a transverse V6, and running true dual exhaust is pointless due to the chassis setup. The crossflow gives you the dual outlet look, and exits quicker than routing a Y-pipe to two mufflers.

rocketfast123
12-08-2011, 01:12 PM
Goes outside and looks under car.

The main thing i see is lack of room, and the price. I say keep it f-body style.

Or go SRT4
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/844/4841/27109920005_large.jpg

locoman99
12-08-2011, 02:06 PM
ill take it one step further...i say from a backpressure point of veiw a single exhaust with a good muffler is superior to a crossflow. These mufflers are just a gimmick...like the ramair setup...to give the car the look of duals. true duals could be done on an nbody but it would be a task, and would def outflow any crossflow design. So if u want two outlets minimum backpressure a more true dual exhast would be best. If u want to keep it simple run a single exhaust straight out. Both are better than a crossflow from a pure performance standpoint

akeemjvasser
12-08-2011, 02:15 PM
http://www.japspeed.co.uk/uploads/images_extra_large/263-p150708_173902.jpgso basically its a pointless thing, im not worried about the pricey tag that comes with but something like the pic below wouldnt be better than the aftermarkets that out or even on the same page?http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&biw=1272&bih=609&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=08h9boRe5p7NZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.japspeed.co.uk/Nissan-350Z/Nissan-350Z/Nissan-350Z-Y-Pipe-Back-Exhaust-System---K1/p-19-1-263/&docid=4KKUfdxT5chMRM&imgurl=http://www.japspeed.co.uk/uploads/images_products_large/263.jpg&w=500&h=332&ei=kijhTqjIMamg2AXcqImrBQ&zoom=1
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&biw=1272&bih=609&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=3Xls4oqGKHASbM:&imgrefurl=http://www.the370z.com/exhaust-intake/26979-new-megan-racing-y-pipe-mid-pipe-axlebacks-best-prices-free-s-h.html&docid=TuO0T57gx0GiDM&imgurl=http://www.ecsmotorsports.com/images/MR-SSDP-YPIPE-N37Z.jpg&w=640&h=426&ei=kijhTqjIMamg2AXcqImrBQ&zoom=1http://www.japspeed.co.uk/Nissan-350Z/Nissan-350Z/Nissan-350Z-Y-Pipe-Back-Exhaust-System---K1/p-19-1-263/

locoman99
12-08-2011, 03:53 PM
Yes that set up would way outflow any crossflow design.... and the reason slp used a crossflow is cost and abilty to use stock hanger locations...not because crossflows are a good design...but I suspect you prob have a slp catback chaos...so of course that makes it the best setup ever on any ga

[ChaosweaveR]
12-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Actually I don't. SLP is the best flowing catback made for the V6, so why is that? I have a Flowmaster 80 series muffler, with an 18" glasspack to cut out the rasp.

Again, no benefit to using a Y-pipe.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 04:39 PM
what do u base that claim on? Just cuz u think so..or someone told u? If u think that a slp outflows a straight single 3 inch pipe with a good muffler then u have a lot learn....son

[ChaosweaveR]
12-08-2011, 04:47 PM
First off, this isn't a big block V8. 3" pipping is NOT needed, unless you're boosted, and making +380HP. Trust me, a 170HP V6 isn't gonna turn into a beast with 3" pipping. To boot, you're losing back pressure with that size. The stock 2.25" is more than enough for a daily driver, and 2.5" if you're running ported intakes, heads, cam and headers.

If running a Y-pipe is so efficent, why didn't the high HP GAs on here do that setup? Because they didn't. AaronGTR, who knows a lot more than myself, and way more than you seem to grasp, runs the SLP catback, and he's supercharged making 320WHP. Even he knows the SLP is hands down the best sounding and flowing muffler available for this platform.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 04:49 PM
And please dont try to say a y pipe causes backpressure...that is just false. Bends are the main cause of bp...and of course pipe size.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 04:59 PM
I never said it was needed..u are right about that. But reread ur posts. U were making claims about the effecency of the crossflow muffler. I was pointing out that u were flat wrong about how an exhaust works. my point has been made.

[ChaosweaveR]
12-08-2011, 05:08 PM
I didn't say it does, but it inhibits exhaust flow. Basically, you're making the exhaust longer than it should be, plus you're adding a muffler to an exhaust system meant for one, not two.

locoman99
12-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Exhaust gases are going to either go right or left...unless u are speaking about the amount of material it would take to construct. True backpressure is an enemy to power production an I c e. Backpressure will have an indirect effect of moving the t curve to lower in the powerband but this has absolutly nothing to do with cylinder scavenging. Whole other subject. Backpressure is bad for power.

oldschoolguy
12-08-2011, 06:56 PM
now now children, one of you may be right, but it only makes 0.0001hp difference. Stop fighting, and go back to playing with your lego

locoman99
12-08-2011, 07:13 PM
Prob a few hp dif...again, look at whole thread. I was just correcting ur friend...who was wrong. Nothing wrong with a little truthiness...i know how some here hate it when facts get in the way of a good argument.

boost21
12-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Grand am racing is serious business! Do what ever exhaust setup you want or makes you happy. In the end of the day its still a grand am and the difference in power gains will be low regardless anyways.

AaronGTR
12-08-2011, 10:36 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say the SLP is the "best" possible design for HP... but it's the best setup that would fall into most peoples uses and power range. The reason not many people have done a Y pipe with dual mufflers is just lack of room.

The grand prix runs a factory setup like that, but they have a longer overhang in the back. That piping configuration also requires the exhaust to run under the center of the rear suspension making it pretty much impossible to use the center of the rear cradle as a jacking point... which was very irritating when I had my GP.

The "over-axle" design of the grand am exhaust introduces a few extra bends to the design... and a smaller pinched off section on the stock exhaust... but an upgraded exhaust with mandrel bends and 2.5" piping pretty much makes that a negligible difference. Having the exhaust tucked up nicely under the chassis, and the ability to jack the car from the center, is a bigger positive to me. Add in a better flowing muffler than stock (even if it is a cross flow) and it's the best all around design. Sounds pretty good too IMO. SLP, borla, and every other company have made their exhausts like that purely for ease of packaging and compatibility with most peoples cars without needing major modification to install. That's what drives sales. People who wants crazy designs can go custom. Most people just want to buy parts and be able to install them easily without a lot of work.


I will tell you what the most important part is though... dyno'ing my car with the cut-out open (basically open headers) versus closed and going through a high flow cat, resonator, and aaaalll the rest of the SLP exhaust and muffler.... only a 3whp difference at a 320whp power level. At lower HP the difference would be even less with reduced exhaust flow. In other words, most people don't need more exhaust than this. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be. ;)

SikMindz
12-09-2011, 11:02 AM
And....Aaron wins.

akeemjvasser
12-09-2011, 06:39 PM
thanks arron and the rest of you for your replies....and arguments lol.
i guess ill go with an easy exhaust set up and some easy mods then. this is my list,
pacesetter exhaust 2.5
exhaust cut outs
lx9 engine swap
65 mm tb
stage 3 c.a.i. with air duct
and custom tuned pcm from mpr.

what ya think?

AaronGTR
12-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Don't know what a stage 3 cai is.... a cai is a cai. No need for fancy stages or extra ducts.

Also forget about MP racing. The store is still up, but the customer service has pretty much gone to sh!t. You'll never get your product and you'll never get your money back. You'd be better off going with Milzy motorsports on that, as I believe he is the only one offering tuned PCM's by mail right now.

akeemjvasser
12-09-2011, 08:50 PM
ight thanks on the pcm info i just looked and bookmarked that. um i feel kinda lame sayin stage 3 if there isnt really one. but the "stage three" c.a.i. is basically when the tubing and filter is down by tires. and i thought about adding an air duct to the circle space where the foglight is and attaching it to the c.a.i.
but would those mods give me a bigger gain, well besides the lx9 gains. any other pluses.

blckgagt
12-10-2011, 09:03 AM
thanks arron and the rest of you for your replies....and arguments lol.
i guess ill go with an easy exhaust set up and some easy mods then. this is my list,
pacesetter exhaust 2.5
exhaust cut outs
lx9 engine swap
65 mm tb
stage 3 c.a.i. with air duct
and custom tuned pcm from mpr.

what ya think?

you only need one exhaust cutout.

the "stage three" c.a.i. is basically when the tubing and filter is down by tires. and i thought about adding an air duct to the circle space where the foglight is and attaching it to the c.a.i.

Also what you just described is just a CAI. A lot of have done a similar setup by adding an extra duct where the foglight is but there is not concrete evidence of how much power it really adds.

AaronGTR
12-10-2011, 09:26 AM
It's not going to add any extra power. If the CAI is down in the fender, it's getting cold air and that's all it needs. About all that putting a duct in may do is funnel water from rain or road splash right up into your filter! Not a good idea. In fact, I'd keep the filter as high up in the fender as possible. There is plenty of space around the front grill openings for sufficient air to get into the fender area.

akeemjvasser
12-10-2011, 07:24 PM
alright, think you that pretty much sums up everything, im a newbie but im good with cars. just not good with the upgrades so i figured instead of going prodigal son and messing up then asking for help, i rather ask from jump. thanks guys for the help.

bricooper78
12-11-2011, 10:22 AM
i made my own with that plastic chrome looking tubing from *any old car parts place* and made one that stays as far up in there as i could get it to stay.

which is pretty far up there, considering i started that afternoon changing my windshield washer tank, and completely forgot about putting the new one in lol

anyways, i have no driving lights, took them out years ago, and sprayed it at the carwash, and really could only get a little mist on the filter if i sprayed the driver's side driving light area from the ground up, so you'd really have to be tailgating someone to get that flow IMO