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chris_gt_74
12-26-2011, 06:14 PM
I need some advice. I have a used cam here I want to install but upon cleaning it up I found these 2 small pit marks. My question is can I still use this cam safely? The 2 areas are very small and towards the outer portion of wear the lifters appear to ride (judging by the wear on the lobes). What can I do to prevent further pitting or is it as bad as it will get or is there no fixing it period? I ask these questions because this is my first cam swap and I do not want to fock my whole engine up on a guess lol. I know zero about a cam really so learn me please!

Forgot the pics. Here they are:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/IMG_2250.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/IMG_2257.jpg

I'd like to add that these 2 pitting marks are the only visible damage I can see on the entire cam. All the lobes are smooth as butter.

zukiracer19
12-26-2011, 07:09 PM
I had lines in mine that sometimes almost looked like scratches, never anything looked warn down; but never scorches like that... might be a possible issue for sure.

chris_gt_74
12-26-2011, 08:29 PM
The burn looking marks, I'm not sure about. I know there are no ridges or scratches and they are smooth to the touch. My concern are the 2 circled in red pits. I haven't done much to the cam but wipe it down and use a scotch bright on the spots I found to see if there was pitting and these 2 spots are the only one's I found, others were just spots but no pitting.

Malaclypse
12-26-2011, 08:50 PM
Do either of those two spots catch your fingernail? If so you may have an issue running that cam.

You could try buffing them out with some emory cloth and see if they clear up at all.. If the damage is pretty deep I could definitely see those chunking the roller of a lifter over time.

chris_gt_74
12-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Do either of those two spots catch your fingernail? If so you may have an issue running that cam.

You could try buffing them out with some emory cloth and see if they clear up at all.. If the damage is pretty deep I could definitely see those chunking the roller of a lifter over time.

Yes I can feel them running a finger nail across them. As far as their depth, they are pretty shallow. I will dig out my micrometer and see if I can even measure the depth.

unchained_01
12-26-2011, 09:12 PM
IMO i would buy all new parts ( Cam and bearings ) and do it right the first time If your going to take the motor out and down that far
Dont go cheap ,go with piece of mind and "know" what you have . I wouldnt reuse a cam unless it came out of that block and was tested at the machine shop Cams are cheap compared to the damage and hassle "if" it fails

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 08:51 PM
Well the only problem I have with that is that I already bought it so it is mine. The guy I bought it from says it's fine and he had no trouble out of it. I will be putting in new lifters with it because the old one's were not included if I so decide to go ahead and install it. My engine is not that old I don't guess but it does have 91k on it. I also have the notion to just find me a decent 3400 and rebuild it either with this cam or another. Mainly because I had no intention of pulling the engine because it is way more work than I wanted to take on and I do not currently have a location suitable to pull it and work on it. If I skip out on the cam for now I will just continue with adding ported heads, headers, ported LIM, and ported UIM. I know I'm going to lose the extra kick from a cam but those mods should give me a nice hefty bump in hp. I don't race at the track or anything like that but I'd like more power just to have it.

O1GAGT
12-27-2011, 09:04 PM
Small dab of JB weld, using a piece of flexible plastic/cardboard to work it into the pit and wipe off any excess. Let cure and then sand with 4000 grit sand paper.

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Small dab of JB weld, using a piece of flexible plastic/cardboard to work it into the pit and wipe off any excess. Let cure and then sand with 4000 grit sand paper.

Would that seriously work? The minor pit I have already almost gotten rid of. The bigger one looks better but is still fairly deep. I even thought about getting it really hot in the oven and mig 1 spot weld in the hole and then grind it down smooth again. I don't want to trash it because I do not think it is a lost cause. Plus I don't have $300 for a brand spanking new one. It's not a matter of being a cheap ass either I want to pep the engine up but I am far from wealthy in the income department. So basically if I trash it I'm not putting a cam in at all and will never do it likely as long as I own the car.

locoman99
12-27-2011, 09:38 PM
Those are laminations...actually flaws in the casting that have came loose over time.. If u have two you are going to have more. My guess it is an aftermarket cam? Whot made it? Hate to say it but I would not reuse it and there is no way to repair it right.

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 10:09 PM
Those are laminations...actually flaws in the casting that have came loose over time.. If u have two you are going to have more. My guess it is an aftermarket cam? Whot made it? Hate to say it but I would not reuse it and there is no way to repair it right.

Yes it's aftermarket. It was made by WOT-TECH in 08 best I can tell from the engraving at the end of the camshaft. This particular cam is not made by them anymore.

locoman99
12-27-2011, 10:50 PM
Im not saying 100 percent this cam is no good now...these could be the only laminations in the casting...inspect it very closely and look for more flaws. U are looking for places that look slightly off color, they may have very fine u shaped lines on the edges of the spot. U cannot weld hardened steel. It will destroy the heat treat and the cam is useless. As far as jbweld, u might as well stick bubblegum on it, u will achieve the same result.

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 11:00 PM
Im not saying 100 percent this cam is no good now...these could be the only laminations in the casting...inspect it very closely and look for more flaws. U are looking for places that look slightly off color, they may have very fine u shaped lines on the edges of the spot. U cannot weld hardened steel. It will destroy the heat treat and the cam is useless. As far as jbweld, u might as well stick bubblegum on it, u will achieve the same result.

Any examples of what I'm looking for? I mean if it is indeed no good I will just keep my current stock cam and go with other performance upgrades.

Well I dug out my good magnifying glass and coupled it with my camera in macro mode. There are super tiny pits everywhere and some weird pattern wear on the high points of the lobes. Any chance it could be reground or something? I'm gonna post the pics I just took here in a second.

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 11:20 PM
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28001013.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28001039.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28001202.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28001247.jpg

I guess I'm not going to be using this afterall because it has me worried now. So I succeeded in wasting $150 bucks.. awesome.. Think it's worth anything to sell? Hell if I can get ~$100 out of it at least it makes up some of the loss.

chris_gt_74
12-27-2011, 11:43 PM
I sent WOT-TECH and email to see if there is any hope for this cam. Thanks for the help.

locoman99
12-28-2011, 12:11 AM
If you want to know what laminations look like..take a good look at the pics u just posted.. That third one is a massive lamination. U see how those lines are u shaped? when that cam lobe wore a little bit more that hunk of metal will come loose. Bad bad bad. Count yourself lucky u only lost 150 on it. It could have been much worse if u ran it.

chris_gt_74
12-28-2011, 12:19 AM
If you want to know what laminations look like..take a good look at the pics u just posted.. That third one is a massive lamination. U see how those lines are u shaped? when that cam lobe wore a little bit more that hunk of metal will come loose. Bad bad bad. Count yourself lucky u only lost 150 on it. It could have been much worse if u ran it.

I wondered what those marks were but until I put it under some magnification I couldn't really see the tiny pits everywhere in those areas. Can the cam be reground or anything or is it pretty much junk? I mean since the wear has broken through the laminate on almost all the high point of the lobes will grinding fix anything at all?

locoman99
12-28-2011, 01:36 AM
The problem is it is a poor casting. You cant fix that. It was obviously never magnafluxed at the factory. It should have never been sold. the pits in the last pic just show how low quality the casting is. Those pits are pours and should have been seen when that surface was machined. I would assume that wot farms cams out. At the very least someone casts the blanks for them. What is the history of that cam? I wouldnt say u got ripped off if someone sold u this cam. He might of never known there was a problem and performed as ground. He did dodge a bullet. if u buy a used cam at least look at the lifters and bearings that were used with it.

chris_gt_74
12-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Well Ben replied back to my email and told me the cam was a Stage 2 regrind from 2008. He confirmed the cam will cause severe damage if used. He also implied the cam is unknown to him if it's even repairable. Thanks for the help guys.

O1GAGT
12-28-2011, 05:43 PM
Would that seriously work? The minor pit I have already almost gotten rid of. The bigger one looks better but is still fairly deep. I even thought about getting it really hot in the oven and mig 1 spot weld in the hole and then grind it down smooth again. I don't want to trash it because I do not think it is a lost cause. Plus I don't have $300 for a brand spanking new one. It's not a matter of being a cheap ass either I want to pep the engine up but I am far from wealthy in the income department. So basically if I trash it I'm not putting a cam in at all and will never do it likely as long as I own the car.

JB weld would have been a band aid, but I have heard of lot of people using jb weld which personally me makes me cringe. I read where a guy used jb weld to repair ridges in the cylinder walls of a small engine, which he claimed worked well.

Looking at the other pics the cam is not worth using.
Who had the cam before and do you know why they removed it?

If I remember right the 60 Degree V6 Store/WOT-Tech used the solid cast cam shafts made by Melling or Sealed Power and had them reground by Oregon Camshaft. Since Comp was able to get blanks, WOT-Tech now sells Comp cams.

chris_gt_74
12-28-2011, 06:06 PM
JB weld would have been a band aid, but I have heard of lot of people using jb weld which personally me makes me cringe. I read where a guy used jb weld to repair ridges in the cylinder walls of a small engine, which he claimed worked well.

Looking at the other pics the cam is not worth using.
Who had the cam before and do you know why they removed it?

If I remember right the 60 Degree V6 Store/WOT-Tech used the solid cast cam shafts made by Melling or Sealed Power and had them reground by Oregon Camshaft. Since Comp was able to get blanks, WOT-Tech now sells Comp cams.

I contacted Ben and he said it was a regrind and appeared way to damaged to salvage. The cam was only about 3 years old. They removed it because they wrecked the car I think. I could be wrong though I didn't ask honestly. He didn't realize the cam was bad. I didn't either at first until I started cleaning it up real good and got some magnification on the areas I was worried about. We have worked out a resolve so I'm fine with the outcome. Just wish the cam was good.

At the sellers request he asked that I destroy the cam pretty much to basically show it will not be resold by myself I assume. After about a half an hour with a hacksaw this is the end result.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28183158.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll234/grand_am_gt_74/2011-12-28183143.jpg

I really wish the cam had been good but I'm glad we were able to resolve it. I mean I still don't have a cam but I didn't completely lose all of my money which I am grateful of. But honestly 2 people lost out on this not just myself.

AaronGTR
12-29-2011, 10:03 AM
Yeah, that cam was definitely no good. It showed way more wear than my billet cam did after taking it out, and with the pitting and everything you can tell it was a bad casting. The current cams WOT sells are solid core blanks from sealed power that are reground by Comp Cams and should be better quality. The guy who used that cam before may not have noticed any problems while he was running it, but that doesn't mean there weren't any. He probably didn't do an oil test for wear metals or ever pull the cam or lifters to inspect them, and the cam was probably a ticking time bomb in his engine and he just happened to pull it before it destroyed something.

ForcedFirebird
12-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Comp have their own blanks, which give us the ability to offer more aggressive lobes than regrinds allow for (short of welding first to build up the lobe).