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chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 07:04 AM
Anyone here near Palestine Texas that has a DHP tuner that would be willing to get my bin from my pcm? I'd even consider renting it if someone didn't mind shipping it to me long enough to dump my pcm. I'd pay shipping of course. The reason I'm looking is because I am only able to locate 1 2005 Grand Am GT bin from the internet. It is claimed to be stock but it is not. Plus I hate the relearn procedure every time I flash the damn thing. I figure getting my own bin from my pcm would help greatly since I know it's stock and I will not have to relearn every time I flash. I already have a pro hptuners kit but wanted the bin for some stuff that hptuners can't touch.

AaronGTR
05-15-2012, 03:50 PM
What re-learn are you talking about? The fuel trims, or the security? If it's fuel trim, you should be resetting that and relearning them every time anyway unless you don't make any fuel changes, in which case you should have the option when you do a write not to reset them (HP should offer that I think?). If it's security, it just sets a security DTC when you re-write the PCM and you should be able to just delete it.

Anyway, I thought HP tuners offered pretty much everything now that DHP did? I know the tiny tuner app has more settings than DHP, but you should be able to use that with HPT as well as long as you have a BIN file to work on. Shouldn't you be able to pull the stock BIN off your PCM with HPT? What is it you want to change that they don't support?

I dunno... I guess I'm just a little baffled because there are a bunch of people on here who are always talking about how much DHP sucks and how HPT is better and they wished they had gone with HPT originally before they bought DHP powertuners. lol

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 04:02 PM
What re-learn are you talking about? The fuel trims, or the security? If it's fuel trim, you should be resetting that and relearning them every time anyway unless you don't make any fuel changes, in which case you should have the option when you do a write not to reset them (HP should offer that I think?). If it's security, it just sets a security DTC when you re-write the PCM and you should be able to just delete it.

Anyway, I thought HP tuners offered pretty much everything now that DHP did? I know the tiny tuner app has more settings than DHP, but you should be able to use that with HPT as well as long as you have a BIN file to work on. Shouldn't you be able to pull the stock BIN off your PCM with HPT? What is it you want to change that they don't support?

I dunno... I guess I'm just a little baffled because there are a bunch of people on here who are always talking about how much DHP sucks and how HPT is better and they wished they had gone with HPT originally before they bought DHP powertuners. lol

The relearn I'm talking about is the security one. I have a stock bin file for my year grand am but it did not come from my car. Also while diggin through the bin it is not stock which is why I wanted my own bin file from my pcm. Not to mention my post a while back about flickering lights, that was somehow connected with the bin I got from the internet. Since I flashed back to stock the flickering disappeared.

Hptuners will not output a bin file. They use their own file format that is encrypted. I emailed support and they basically called me a thief or a hacker because I asked to have my hpt file decrypted by them and to send me the bin file back. I argued back and forth a few times clearly explaining what I wanted the bin file for and they were still pissy about it.

I only need DHP to extract my bin from my pcm. I don't want to tune with it.

AaronGTR
05-15-2012, 05:17 PM
They won't even let you upload your own stock bin from your own PCM?! :wtf: How is that stealing? It's GM's code, not theirs. They don't own it, you do, and it's not a tuned file like from a purchased PCM like DHP 1.0... that's ghey. +1 for DHP. lol

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 05:39 PM
They won't even let you upload your own stock bin from your own PCM?! :wtf: How is that stealing? It's GM's code, not theirs. They don't own it, you do, and it's not a tuned file like from a purchased PCM like DHP 1.0... that's ghey. +1 for DHP. lol

Tell me about it. It pissed me off. They acted like I asked for their ****ing code or something. All I wanted was my bin extracted which I attached to the 1st email and only asked that they email me my bin file back.

Here's the emails:

Me:

I have a request that I am hoping you guys can help me out with. I have my stock hpt file from my 05 Grand Am GT. I have located a single bin file that matches my OS version and year model that is suppose to be a stock bin. Well after some research it seems the file is not stock and has something wrong with it that is affecting my charging system. My best bet I can think of is to see if I can somehow get my own bin file from my vehicle extracted from my hpt file. I understand you guys have your own proprietary format to prevent the bin files from being freely distributed but this is not the case with myself. I need it for my own personal use specifically for my car and my tuner. I don't know if you guys do this sort of thing or not but I would be very greatful if I could have mine extracted from the hpt file. I would go the DHP route which outputs in bin format but I have asked around for anyone close to me that could pull it and there are none. Thanks in advance and I hope ya'll can help me out.

PS I can give proof of ownership of the vehicle the hpt was pulled from if necessary. But anyway I have attached my hpt file just in case ya'll can provide the bin for me.

Them:

Unfortunately not, we do not offer binary conversions because this would make our software easy to reverse engineer. Sorry but this is not a service we offer.

Me:

While I understand your stance regarding your software. It's a real bummer for a user such as myself that is not a full blown tuner. I bought your tuner package for the scanning ability and to tune my car. I have no interest in reversing your software or the hpt format. I will continue my search for a true stock bin I guess. Thanks

Them:

Why not have gm flash it to stock so you know its stock, then just reread with our software.

Me:

I already have the stock tune. I also have the stock hpt file from my pcm . I wanted the bin extracted from the hpt to gain access to the unsupported tables hptuners doesn't have.

Them:

Yeah as stated we arenít going to convert our protected files so that you can use another software package modify or reverse engineer our work.

Me:

Tiny tuner is hardly a competitor. It's a freeware editor with zero flash ability and no hardware support. I want to use it purely for the extra tables your software does not provide and your format is not supported obviously. I asked to be sent my bin file and not the ability to extract it myself. You should consider implementing the tables the freeware provides atleast especially since yours is $500+ and theirs is free. I didn't know having my own bin extracted was that big a deal, sorry. Thanks for the help.

That was the last correspondence with them.

Bitches!! That's what $500+ bucks gets you. Being called a thief for wanting access to your own pcm information.

AaronGTR
05-15-2012, 05:46 PM
Have you tried getting in touch with gectec? I know he is in TX and I thought he had a DHP? Not totally sure about that though... and I don't know how far away he is.

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 05:49 PM
Have you tried getting in touch with gectec? I know he is in TX and I thought he had a DHP? Not totally sure about that though... and I don't know how far away he is.

Yeah he's in the Longview, TX area I think, like 45 minutes or so from me. He is the one that's been helping me tune. I've emailed him but not about getting my own bin from my pcm.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 06:12 PM
HPTuners switched to a propreitary file type when they introduced VCM enhancements for the GenIII V8 cars. Linky to the Enchancements (http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmsuite_enhance.php).

These are improvements they made to the OS and custom OS'es that they worked on...so it is their code.

The problem is that our car's never got any VCM Enhancements (and never will!) because...people don't need and probably wouldn't understand a 2bar SD tune.

HPT is spending their time on bigger and better things than dinky N-Body OSes. They just released a ZL1 definition and are working on having Dodge cars supported so they can broaden their customer base...yet they still find time to help me out and get the OS from my mini-van supported in under two weeks.

I hate to say it, but I think you should of known this before you bought HPT...

Also, you do know you can flash a similar OS that you have a .bin file of (say from the same year/powertrain) and it should work on your PCM (provided that your PCM hardware number is the same as the hardware number the OS .bin file came off of).

So this way: Have stock .bin file > Make modifications in Tiny Tuner > Import into HPT (they still support opening of .bin files) > Make the changes in HPT that you want > Flash to car.

Also, if you get a pre 2.0.xxxxx version of HPTuners (look on LS1tech), you can install it, activate your cable through it like you would with a newer version, and pull a .bin file from the car.

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 06:23 PM
HPTuners switched to a propreitary file type when they introduced VCM enhancements for the GenIII V8 cars. Linky to the Enchancements (http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmsuite_enhance.php).

These are improvements they made to the OS and custom OS'es that they worked on...so it is their code.

The problem is that our car's never got any VCM Enhancements (and never will!) because...people don't need and probably wouldn't understand a 2bar SD tune.

HPT is spending their time on bigger and better things than dinky N-Body OSes. They just released a ZL1 definition and are working on having Dodge cars supported so they can broaden their customer base...yet they still find time to help me out and get the OS from my mini-van supported in under two weeks.

I hate to say it, but I think you should of known this before you bought HPT...

Also, you do know you can flash a similar OS that you have a .bin file of (say from the same year/powertrain) and it should work on your PCM (provided that your PCM hardware number is the same as the hardware number the OS .bin file came off of).

So this way: Have stock .bin file > Make modifications in Tiny Tuner > Import into HPT (they still support opening of .bin files) > Make the changes in HPT that you want > Flash to car.

Also, if you get a pre 2.0.xxxxx version of HPTuners (look on LS1tech), you can install it, activate your cable through it like you would with a newer version, and pull a .bin file from the car.

Yeah I know the N body crowd is little fish to them. I also understand they own the code but that doesn't explain to me why they think that by giving me my bin file (they personally extract it) will allow me to completely hack their stuff. It was a **** you answer if you ask me. As for I shoulda known, no I didn't. I didn't know certain tables weren't available in hptuners. How would I without owning it or using it before? I have already went the bin method you refer to. I only found 1 single bin that matched my os. It was not stock and also caused issues with my bcm for whatever reasons. But I did not know about the older version of hptuner being able to download as a bin file. If that's true then iy will solve my problem.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 06:35 PM
Yeah I know the N body crowd is little fish to them. I also understand they own the code but that doesn't explain to me why they think that by giving me my bin file (they personally extract it) will allow me to completely hack their stuff. It was a **** you answer if you ask me. As for I shoulda known, no I didn't. I didn't know certain tables weren't available in hptuners. How would I without owning it or using it before? I have already went the bin method you refer to. I only found 1 single bin that matched my os. It was not stock and also caused issues with my bcm for whatever reasons. But I did not know about the older version of hptuner being able to download as a bin file. If that's true then iy will solve my problem.

Who did you contact? Bill?

Also, did you change the VIN after re flashing the different OS? What is the OSID of your stock OS?

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 06:40 PM
Who did you contact? Bill?

Also, did you change the VIN after re flashing the different OS? What is the OSID of your stock OS?

Yes I think he was the one who emailed me back. Yes the VIN matched as well as the OSID. Mine is OS 12594385.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 06:44 PM
Yes I think he was the one who emailed me back. Yes the VIN matched as well as the OSID. Mine is OS 12594385.

What were the issues with your BCM? I'm not 100% on the 2005's but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have ANY issues flashing a stock OSID over another of the same OSID...

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm not entirely sure what was up. I was experiencing light flickering from all interior lights, brake lights, and headlights anytime the ac was turned on. Pulsing did not change with rpm's either. Everyone around said change the alternator and check grounds and the battery. Well I did all those and the issue still remained. So I flashed back to stock and the problem seemed to vanish. As a test a week later I flashed the problematic tune back and the issue reappeared. So back to stock I went. This is why I really wanted my own bin from my pcm because I know it's not tampered with at all.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 07:00 PM
I'm not entirely sure what was up. I was experiencing light flickering from all interior lights, brake lights, and headlights anytime the ac was turned on. Pulsing did not change with rpm's either. Everyone around said change the alternator and check grounds and the battery. Well I did all those and the issue still remained. So I flashed back to stock and the problem seemed to vanish. As a test a week later I flashed the problematic tune back and the issue reappeared. So back to stock I went. This is why I really wanted my own bin from my pcm because I know it's not tampered with at all.

Is it the .bin from 60*?

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 07:09 PM
Is it the .bin from 60*?

Yes. It was the only one I could locate.

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm not seeing a download for 1.7.0 vcm suite anywhere. Well any version other than 2.22 for that matter.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 07:19 PM
Yes. It was the only one I could locate.

Hm, yeah I don't know of any other ones online. Do you know the ECU's hardware model number?

HOYS
05-15-2012, 07:20 PM
I'm not seeing a download for 1.7.0 vcm suite anywhere. Well any version other than 2.22 for that matter.

Its not on HPT's website. Your going to have to find someone with a super old version of the HPT disk. I know where one is...but I have to drive and go get it.

How badly do you want it? :P

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Lol well only if it will work. It used the serial interface so if the software works with the usb style like the new one's I'd like to get it somehow. But if it don't work I don't need it.

I'm not sure the hardware number. I'd have to go look.

AaronGTR
05-15-2012, 08:39 PM
Yeah, it sucks... but it seems like the only way to really do everything you want would be if you had DHP, tiny tuner, AND HPT. That's assuming you really need HPT at all. Only reason I would get it at this point would be if I was keeping my GA but also got an LSx car and wanted to tune both with the same setup.

chris_gt_74
05-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Well I have hptuners and tinytuner. I just need a way to get my bin to be able to use tinytuner and then hptuners.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 11:14 PM
Yeah, it sucks... but it seems like the only way to really do everything you want would be if you had DHP, tiny tuner, AND HPT. That's assuming you really need HPT at all. Only reason I would get it at this point would be if I was keeping my GA but also got an LSx car and wanted to tune both with the same setup.

Yeah, the only reason I got HPT is because it is the only complete setup left for tuning our cars at this point.

Working on v1.6 atm :)

HOYS
05-15-2012, 11:31 PM
Well unfortunately the version I have is serial cable only, no dice.

HOYS
05-15-2012, 11:51 PM
Well I never asked, what are you trying to modifiy with TT that you can't with HPT?

chris_gt_74
05-16-2012, 06:23 AM
Well I never asked, what are you trying to modifiy with TT that you can't with HPT?

Beats me lol. Gectek is the one helping tune it. I'd have to ask him what he changed in the bin file or do a compare to see all the changes. What he had me do is flash the modified bin, pull it back off in hpt format, modify it and then flash the modified hpt file. The tune he helped me with worked really well until the weird bcm light thing showed up. I honestly don't know if the light problem was there from the get go since I wasn't running the ac at the time we flashed it. But once it did show up and an alternator change and battery check didn't fix it I took it upon myself to flash back to stock and haven't noticed the light problem not once. Currently I am running just a modified stock tune with everything hptuners would allow me to change to match the hpt tune he gave me. It is working but I can feel the difference between the 2 if that makes sense. This is why I'd like to get the stock bin from my car to do what we did the first time.

It's a shame you don't have an 05 gt with the same osid. If you did I should be able to just email it to you and have you flash my stock tune and you dump the bin for me and email it back.

chris_gt_74
05-16-2012, 06:32 AM
Here is a quick compare differences between the 05 bin from 60* and the edited one he had me flash. I do not know how many of these are changeable or even exist in Hptuners without going down the list one by one. But I know there are atleast 3-4 of these that can't be altered in Hptuners just from me copying and pasting between the 2.

Table Name: A/C RPM Disable vs Gear - Re-enable


Table Name: Abuse Control Method


Table Name: Abuse Mode Duration vs. Trans Temp


Table Name: Base PE A/F vs ECT


Table Name: Brake Torque Limit


Table Name: Burst Knock Detection Minimum Delta TPS


Table Name: Burst Knock Disable RPM


Table Name: Burst Knock Retard Enable Coolant Temp


Table Name: Disable All Injectors High MPH


Table Name: Fan 1 Coolant Temp


Table Name: Fan 2 Coolant Temp


Table Name: Flash Checksum


Table Name: Knock Retard Recovery Rate


Table Name: Maximum Burst Knock Retard


Table Name: Maximum Turbine Torque TCC Locked


Table Name: Maximum Turbine Torque TCC Unlocked


Table Name: PE Delay vs TPS


Table Name: PE Enable TPS


Table Name: PE Mode Delay RPM


Table Name: PE RPM vs Time A/F

chris_gt_74
05-16-2012, 06:33 AM
Table Name: RPM Limit AFR


Table Name: Torque Abuse A/F


Table Name: Torque Abuse Differential Score A/F


Table Name: Torque Abuse Drive Injector Disable


Table Name: Torque Abuse RPM Enable


Table Name: Torque Abuse Spark Retard


Table Name: Torque Abuse Throttle Enable


Table Name: Torque Abuse Time Enable


Table Name: Torque Differential Score Injector Disable


Table Name: Torque Differential Score Retard


Table Name: Torque Reduction 1st to 2nd Upshift


Table Name: Torque Reduction 2nd to 3rd Upshift


Table Name: Torque Reduction 3rd to 2nd Downshift


Table Name: Torque Reduction 4th to 3rd Downshift


Table Name: Traction Control Desired A/F


Table Name: Traction Disable Injectors


Table Name: Trans Abuse Mode - Master Enable


Table Name: Trans Abuse Mode - Min TP%


Table Name: Trans Abuse Mode - Torque Reduction


Table Name: Trans Torque Reduction - Master Enable

chris_gt_74
11-26-2012, 08:22 AM
FYI it took awhile to find but the light flickering troubles came from the cc override being disabled.

unchained_01
11-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Really ?

chris_gt_74
11-26-2012, 04:39 PM
Yeah for whatever reasons it was causing the light issues when using the ac. Turned it on and it all went away.