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over's ga
07-16-2012, 11:12 AM
New member here, just found you. this is my second GA, need to spend some time here searching but thought I'd check in first

Name is Jim, located in Phoenix area, I'm an okay home mechanic into most anything with engine (and wheels)
--------------------------

just bought a '04 SE with a possible once seized overheated engine

I'm thinking the engine was overheated to point of seizing (locked-up) I don't know whole history but it has clean oil not milk shake, (they may of changed it) I have done heads and intake on another 3.1 recently due to the dreaded lower intake gaskets so I'm somewhat familiar with its Achillies heal

It took some effort to turn over at crank bolt with wrench but I got it to move after going back and forth a bit, but still harder then expected. after, I was able to turn over with starter and fresh battery but it sounds tight and slower then normal, it won't start and I have never heard it run.
-has 124,000 mi
-back head has overheat button epoxied to it (so it been worked on b4)
-Radiator reservoir is empty (not sure if rad full)
-yet to pull it apart or do any more diagnosing on it

unchained_01
07-16-2012, 12:54 PM
Pull the plugs and see how it spins, If its still tight I pull the motor and start over
If not
Tear it down and see whats wrong you are probably going to replace the head gaskets anyway
I would seriously drain the oil and check it how does the resivoir tank cap look ? and the oil cap ? PVC ? check those for oil water build up maybe even the front valve cover to see if the previous owner spun a bearing and tried to cover it up
Hopefully they didnt knock the bearings out of it

over's ga
07-16-2012, 03:35 PM
resivoir tank and cap are dry and normal sweet antifreeze smell no coolant/oil mix evidence anywhere (so far), oil cap clean, just looking into oil fill hole, looks black, dirty like never changed oil on time with a little sludge but not anything like coolant in the oil, yeah dumping the oil and pulling front valve cover is good idea ...Thanks

soon, I will pull plugs, squirt some trans fluid in cylinders and turn it over with starter and see

Malaclypse
07-16-2012, 08:46 PM
If it overheated to the point of seizing that sounds more like a lack of oil/oil changes than coolant.

In either case.... your best bet is to probably get a motor from a reputible yard and drop it in. If the bearings seized due to lack of lubrication there will be bluing on the main caps and the crank will be shot. Same with the rods.

If the coolant ran dry and then it overheated, the heads will be warped/cracked.

over's ga
07-16-2012, 09:24 PM
I may drop oil pan if its not to much a pain but I remember some brackets connected to it?? I knew going into it that a swap was likely, I don't want to waste to much time on an engine & over diagnosis if I got to do stuff twice in Phoenix summer heat.

like to find a good short block if it saves money, then I can make sure heads and intake are done right way

No matter what salvage 3.4 I get unless proven low miles I'm going to do the intake & head gaskets. I HATE not doing it right once! it just sucks on tight budget

Malaclypse
07-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Why are you so set on replacing the cylinde rhead gaskets on a motor where they're probably fine? IE Yard engine.

Headgaskets don't really become an issue unless someone ignores an intake leak for a LOOOONNNGGG time.

over's ga
07-16-2012, 11:11 PM
Why are you so set on replacing the cylinde rhead gaskets on a motor where they're probably fine? IE Yard engine.

Headgaskets don't really become an issue unless someone ignores an intake leak for a LOOOONNNGGG time.

being over cautious I guess, I've seen warped alum. heads and just feel while your that deep in engine, go for it, I know head bolts & full gasket set along with checking/milling heads ads to cost, at least $100, but on a motor I know nothing about I would be pissed after just doing intake to find leaks after everything is put together.

if people with more experience with this series of engines say doing heads is overkill then great, that's $ saving advice I need. Your input is appreciated

unchained_01
07-17-2012, 06:17 AM
If the motor is that bad when you get it apart I would look into a 3500 swap before I would do an older 3400. I hope its not bearings ( crank or cam). Keep us posted and photos help also.

over's ga
07-23-2012, 11:17 PM
If the motor is that bad when you get it apart I would look into a 3500 swap before I would do an older 3400. I hope its not bearings ( crank or cam). Keep us posted and photos help also.

I'm swapping motors! I went to salvage yard today to look at a 3.4 from '04 Buick, had a crack in front cover and overall looked like car got hit in right front. ..passed

yard would have to pull from another yard for another 3.4

**
They will give me same (very good) deal on my choice of two '06 Impala 3.5L. one has under 35,000 mi. I saw both and they have fly by wire throttle body and different upper intake (didn't have chance to completely look over but the block and heads looks same as 3.1, 3.4L) any advice on this swap? Is it worth it? I'm not looking to hot rod this car just get running and reliable

I have no problem changing complete intake and every bracket/mount if needed, I just don't want surprises like holes not aligning or system's like, electrical, computer, cooling not being compatible ... I plan on keeping original engine/core till complete and running

You guys are my first research, figure I'd go first to where you hop up and upgrade ..Thanks in advance for any input!

Starglow
07-24-2012, 05:15 AM
Make sure those 3.5's you're looking at are LX9's and not VVT's which won't work for the swap. One quick way to tell is the UIM on the VVT engines has a distinct V notch that the LX9's don't have.

You'll need a crank trigger kit to make the 3500 compatible with the PCM and a few other minor things. You'll also need to transfer the crank pulley and a few sensors over from the 3400. Milzy Motorsports sells a complete 3500 swap kit that has everything you'll need for the swap. http://milzymotorsports.com/

A PCM tune is not mandatory but is highly recommended to take full advantage of the 3500 performance. Milzy does the PCM updates as well via mailorder, or you can do it yourself with a tuner or have it done locally if you have those resources available.

You can use your 3400 UIM on the 3500 engine which is basically plug-N-play, or you can use the 3500 UIM with some minor tweaks. There are both advantages and disadvantages of using the 3400 UIM, but it works. You can also upgrade to a 65mm throttle body to improve performance.

Lots of people have already done the 3500 swap and I'm finishing up one myself. Spend some time reading the forums here and over on Grandamownersclub, Aleromod, and 60degreeV6 which will answer most of your questions. I'm sure others will chime in, but that's the basics.

over's ga
07-24-2012, 03:39 PM
Make sure those 3.5's you're looking at are LX9's and not VVT's which won't work for the swap. One quick way to tell is the UIM on the VVT engines has a distinct V notch that the LX9's don't have.

I don't remember any v notch on two engines I looked at, the upper intake was ribbed and different than 3.4 but I may of missed it, do LX9 & VVT have different vin codes, I have complete vins on both.
------------

Thanks for link and info, still haven't had time to completely study what's involved but good start.
looks like minimum I would have to do is to buy the crank trigger adapter, and do some component swapping, the $150 for adapter may put me out of budget (that sucks cause normally I love to upgrade) this car needs to be basic, it was a steal and in good shape & likely will go to family member as dd or I may just sell it. with 3.5 swap is passing strict emissions a problem if I were to do minimum to complete it? I got some news and choices I'll detail next post.

unchained_01
07-24-2012, 04:18 PM
As long as the motor is stock it will pass emissions no prob the swap is as basic as you can get. Just a newer motor. That's all. The crank trigger kit is the only upgrade needed. Other than basic fluids etc.

over's ga
07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
GREAT NEWS, MAYBE,
I just got car started. sorry so long....

went to AutoZone to warranty the battery I was using to try to turn it over, either I killed it cause of how tight it was or it just went bad, with fresh battery after a lot of cranking and throttle playing got the engine running! first time I heard this car run, no bearing howl or grind no knocking and it even idled ok, it has a head gasket type miss and low power but the trans engaged in Rev & Drive so one less thing to worry about, and I know better what I'm starting with

*I have important decision to make, pull this thing or pull it apart.

-----What I know so far through basic diagnosis:

-what looked like NO coolent in crankcase at first, now after running and cranking has mixed things up and definitely has water in oil (ran engine only for about 3-4 minutes)

-was so tight at first that long wrench on crank bolt would not turn it until I worked it back and forth for a while

-after I loosen it up it would crank slow (with plugs in & older battery) BUT, after a while if I try to crank it by starter again its locked again even with wrench on crank it is super tight again. **this was before I had it running for a few minutes, so now I need to go back & see if it has tightened up again, so far after running it, things have loosened up nice but I'll have to wait till it cools down completely and put wrench back on it, so far so good

-IF it doesn't tighten up again, that may be reason to keep engine as my theory is the water mixed into oil, water separated after sitting for (I don't know how long) rusting/seizing cylinder walls and some bearing surfaces??

- earlier when I had it cranking with starter, I had coolant res. open and vaper was venting out, so head gasket(s) are bad & warped heads are likely (there is a overheat button epoxied on back head that shows a hole in middle so it been hot

-earlier with no s.plugs it turns over somewhat normal, no comp. test done since I know combustion is blowing into cooling systm.

CHOICE 1:
if it stays loose, I'm tempted to do heads and intake and be done with it, I've done it on a 3.1 successfuly,
without pulling oil pan, main & con rod caps and pulling cam to check bearings the only wear signs I have to look for are on cam lobes & cylinder walls, I can get heads surfaced local for $50, a good FelPro gasket kit for $170, head bolts $30. ...tempting but risky?? heads could be cracked, and block bearings may be bad ...

CHOICE 2:
For a salvage yard 3.4 that they will stand behind, I'm in the $650 - $1000 range, and may need to do lower intake still. out here in southwest they seem to really be higher priced and harder to find then back east. I can do a $500 3.4 craigslist engine and just gamble stupidly

CHOICE 3:
two low mile '06 impala 3.5s (VIN, K & VIN, 8) for $650 total out door my choice, $100 core, 90 day exchange warranty, reputable yard * Plus $150 extra minimum for crank position sensor adapter and yet to find out what other cost or cons for 3.5 swap. a low mi. 3.5 at about $800 total could be best safe option but I would always wonder if current 3.4 could of been saved for cheap.

over's ga
07-24-2012, 04:48 PM
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/92464/rebuilding_the_chevy_34l35l_engine.aspx

some good info, also tells me that one of the engines I was looking at yesterday was a VVT code (K) version I don't want.

"now let’s take a look at the 3.5L engine that was introduced as the “LX9” in ’04 and used up through ’07 in the Buick Rendezvous. It was a VIN code 8 or L and it came without the variable valve timing that was added to the LZ4/LZE (VIN code K or N) that showed up in ’06 along with the new 3.9L engine"

over's ga
07-25-2012, 12:32 PM
after running it yesterday and getting things warm & loose, once it cooled down it stayed loose, turning it manual at crank but still more effort then it should be.

was a nice cool 95° last night with breeze so I got deep into the 3.4 and pulled the top end, this thing is RUSTY, there is corrosion everywhere, water must of been sitting in this thing for a while, the push rods are coated, the cylinder walls are a little rough and show signs of overheat discolor, piston tops look very clean but I can move them (rock them) about 1/16" in cylinders.
overall engine and engine bay shows telltale signs it was a low mile salvage yard engine or bad rwbuild. I could save it but I decided its less risk to just swap.

I'm committed to swapping this thing, got it 90% ready to pull.
I'm about to make call to http://milzymotorsports.com/

Any other source for crank trigger kit?

**What are 3.4 / 3.5 motors going for in your specific area?

Starglow
07-25-2012, 02:40 PM
The crank trigger kit is the only upgrade needed. Other than basic fluids etc.

That statement is not true at all unless the owner is happy with half-ass results.

A different engine bracket is required plus several other changes depending on which UIM is being used. A TB upgrade and PCM tune are also highly recommended as well to take full advantage of 3500 engine performance gains over the stock 3400.

Let's be honest and let folks know what they're really getting into with an engine swap without over-simplification shall we?

Starglow
07-25-2012, 02:56 PM
I'm committed to swapping this thing, got it 90% ready to pull.
I'm about to make call to http://milzymotorsports.com/

Any other source for crank trigger kit?

**What are 3.4 / 3.5 motors going for in your specific area?

Yes...you can buy the crank trigger kit by itself on a few sites, but you'd be better off just buying the MMS 3500 swap kit from Milzy that has all the harness adapters, brackets, parts, etc that you will need for the swap in one complete kit.

Motor prices will vary by mileage and regional area, so you just need to shop around to find the best deal, but ballpark average is around $300-550 range for a good low mileage engine. Start with calling your local salvage yards to see what they have to offer. If you shop on ebay, make sure they send you pictures of the actual motor so you know for sure what you're getting before you buy and watch out for excessive shipping fees.

Some sellers will not send pictures and I would not buy from them because you could end up with either a VVT engine (some sellers don't know the difference) or an otherwise stripped down piece of junk. Ask questions regarding what kind of car it came out of and how it was wrecked. Front end collisions carry a higher risk of cracked or damaged engine parts than a side or rear impact crash away from the engine area.

Good luck.....! 8-)

over's ga
07-25-2012, 04:17 PM
Thanks Starglow, good advice for future searchers here, but I figured out more was needed about 2 hrs ago with call to Mike at Milzy. I'm working on about 4 hours of research so far on 3500 swap.

Milzy told me I need the transaxle bracket/mount, a spacer for A/C compressor so serpentine belt works & pullys line up, just so belt will work period (he said), some wiring pigtails or extensions?? and of course, the crank position adapter kit.

since budget is goal, I would use 3.4 upper intake & he will sell kit without TB adapter (save about $75) so total cost + shipping is about $210. Does that sound like minimum needed for functional /legal swap?

........
in my searching on another forum I found some pissed off customers of Milzys due to shipping and and other bs, *he did reply and offer explanations, and I can only judge first hand experiences & won't let that turn me ...To me, working at night mostly (due to PHX summers) this is a big job , I don't want suprises like more parts 'major' needed, things not fitting or bs with shipping, I do expect normal challenges and headaches

over's ga
07-25-2012, 04:25 PM
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86419&highlight=3500+swap

on this thread, LX9 (3500) Swap Guide. Can someone copy/paste & post it?

my tablet won't let me view it, when I try to buy app to view it gives error:banghead

over's ga
07-25-2012, 04:48 PM
Motor prices will vary by mileage and regional area, so you just need to shop around to find the best deal, but ballpark average is around $300-550 range for a good low mileage engine. Start with calling your local salvage yards to see what they have to offer. If you shop on ebay, make sure they send you pictures of the actual motor so you know for sure what you're getting before you buy and watch out for excessive shipping fees.

Some sellers will not send pictures and I would not buy from them because you could end up with either a VVT engine (some sellers don't know the difference) or an otherwise stripped down piece of junk. Ask questions regarding what kind of car it came out of and how it was wrecked. Front end collisions carry a higher risk of cracked or damaged engine parts than a side or rear impact crash away from the engine are hit in front

prices suck out west, $550 will get me a 3.4 L with 100,000+ mi from a craigslist sale with no warranty and no reliable history (probably his old engine core after going to JYard.

Yards out here are plenty in PHX but I'm at least 1.5 hrs from them, on the phone they tell you what you want to here to get you just to come in, some better then others of course. the one I went to and has good rep. even mis represented what they had, the only 3.4l they ended up having looked like they droped it on its nose!

To be honest, if I could find good 3.4 I would not consider the 3.5 swap, it just a matter of limited choices & a good deal on a low mile 3.5

No matter, it looks like $1000 for what I expected to be half that $ engine swap is the reality

unchained_01
07-25-2012, 07:37 PM
Just make sure mike has everything in stock so you dont wait weeks for parts And you may have to bite the bullet and make the trip to those yards find a motor out of a 2005 -2006 G6 or a malibu/impala

over's ga
07-25-2012, 07:57 PM
Thanks for all the advice, Yes I will make sure Mike can get me everything needed before I pick-up the engine

Checked in today at yard I'm using & they will lower price on the engine I want.

SPECS. ARE:
'06 Malibu 3.5
42,000 mi
VIN. 1G1ZT51816F154294
One year on parts
90 days return
$550 !!

...this engine is CLEAN, IN AND OUT, looks like 4000 mi not 42,000

edit: RITEWAY AUTO PARTS in Phoenix Az on Broadway is salvage yard I used, best services I ever had buying used parts, Thanks Perry!
(I've used alot & there are some real terds out there)

over's ga
07-25-2012, 08:10 PM
On old A/C compressor, I think its bad it turns over with no effort and clutch is loose and noisy. anyone have any tips on compressor to save money? can I just disconnect lines exchange for salvage yard or rebuilt one, will it contaminate system if its left open when changing and during swap? can i just tape or plug open lines?

I plan on having system serviced after engine swap

Starglow
07-25-2012, 08:34 PM
On old A/C compressor, I think its bad it turns over with no effort and clutch is loose and noisy. anyone have any tips on compressor to save money? can I just disconnect lines exchange for salvage yard or rebuilt one, will it contaminate system if its left open when changing and during swap? can i just tape or plug open lines?

I plan on having system serviced after engine swap

You will have to change the dryer either way, but I don't recommend leaving the system open during the swap. Just unbolt the compressor with lines still attached and set it aside in the engine bay which you will find plenty of room for this and still allow the engine to easily clear.

I've seen new compressor kits online that include a dryer and they aren't that expensive, but I'd focus on completing the engine swap first and then deal with the compressor issues separately.

Starglow
07-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Milzy told me I need the transaxle bracket/mount, a spacer for A/C compressor so serpentine belt works & pullys line up, just so belt will work period (he said), some wiring pigtails or extensions?? and of course, the crank position adapter kit.

since budget is goal, I would use 3.4 upper intake & he will sell kit without TB adapter (save about $75) so total cost + shipping is about $210. Does that sound like minimum needed for functional /legal swap?

........
in my searching on another forum I found some pissed off customers of Milzys due to shipping and and other bs, *he did reply and offer explanations, and I can only judge first hand experiences & won't let that turn me ...To me, working at night mostly (due to PHX summers) this is a big job , I don't want suprises like more parts 'major' needed, things not fitting or bs with shipping, I do expect normal challenges and headaches

Yes...you should have everything needed with using the 3400 UIM based on what you described. I've purchased a lot of stuff from Milzy and have talked with Mike on the phone a few times so here's the thing you have to remember.

Many of the parts in the kits Mike sells are custom machined on a limited quantity basis as needed and are not mass produced by a manufacturer. Sometimes Mike has to wait for his suppliers to supply him the parts necessary for the kits which can cause some delays. If Mike has the kit or parts you need in stock sitting on the shelf then you may get them faster. It's usually the people that expect if they place an order today that it will ship out tomorrow that are disappointed.

I wasn't in a big hurry and sometimes waited several weeks to get my parts with the understanding they are custom built, but I did eventually get them. Whatever you do, stay away from MP Racing unless you like losing your money.

over's ga
07-26-2012, 04:47 PM
this crustacian/boat anchor is going to be yanked tonight :cook:

ordered parts from Milzy.

http://s7.postimage.org/ekbm88gzv/IMG00372_20120724_2132.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload photo (http://postimage.org/)


http://s8.postimage.org/z8bet9z1x/IMG00373_20120724_2132.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)


http://s18.postimage.org/k36we7jzt/IMG00377_20120724_2145.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload picture (http://postimage.org/)

over's ga
07-27-2012, 11:37 PM
Nice clean space ready
http://s14.postimage.org/gmdw45vmp/IMG00506_20120727_1042.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload photo (http://postimage.org/)

Long 2 days! Pulled engine from 8 till midnight Thursday.
In my truck Friday about 5 hrs picking up engine, fender, headlight inner panel & and a bunch of used parts from a guy with wrecked 01 got from him for cheap, A/C compressor, wiper motor and arms complete, spare tire, jack, lug wrench and a few misc. interior parts (all I need to complete this car is a unit bearing, A/C service & some paint on nose and fender) oh, lots of work too!

This should work to fill hole
http://s12.postimage.org/ethlfpsh9/IMG00385_20120727_2139.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free picture hosting (http://postimage.org/)
http://s13.postimage.org/uww6nwmp3/IMG00384_20120727_2139.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
photo upload (http://postimage.org/)

unchained_01
07-27-2012, 11:49 PM
Your going to have to remove the manifolds and the oil filter adapter Nice work !!!

over's ga
07-28-2012, 12:16 PM
Yep, thanks. Yet to do anything with 3.5, I'll pull filter adapter, should be normal filter mount surface under that. Gaskets, all I need are upper intake and exhaust manifold, correct? (3.4 spec)

I was finally able to view "3500 Swap" document from HOYS
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86419&highlight=3500+swap
seems complete, is that the go to bible for this or is there more details to know?

semborski
07-29-2012, 03:55 PM
I completed my swap early last month. Why do you have to pull the filter adapter? I didn't, in fact I love its location. Looks nice and clean. As spoken of earlier in this thread, I was one very dissapointed person with Mike because of how long it took. Shoulda taken me 2 days ended up taking 2 months because of wait time. Only reason it bothered me is because i'm 17 and its my only car.

http://www.gaownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150888
Thats my build thread

unchained_01
07-29-2012, 04:27 PM
so the filter didnt hit the engine cradle ? I just remeber one person saying the filter was too close

semborski
07-29-2012, 05:46 PM
so the filter didnt hit the engine cradle ? I just remeber one person saying the filter was too close

No.

over's ga
07-29-2012, 08:00 PM
I removed the oil filter adapter already, not going to change back and risk oil leak, no problem, I'll use it for something else someday.

Last night, spent a couple hours with the two engines next to each other on small dollys, other than swap parts, and getting gaskets for UIM & exhaust I got the parts transfer complete.

....few questions as I move along on this....
-pulled 3.5 balancer with puller I had, I don't have puller for the one on 3.4 (has tapped holes for puller, could use my claw type and damage trigger ring) I'll try Autozone & O Reillys for rental

-some of my old injectors from 3.4 have the black base and O rings missing (must of got away from me when I pulled rail)
I'm sure the injectors from 3.5 are fresher with good seals,
*can I use them? and or the whole 3.5 fuel rail?

-when I drop new engine in, can it be completely together with exhaust manifolds (no crossover) completed intake, coil packs/wires & alternator or should I leave certain parts off? (when I pulled 3.4 out it was partially disassembled for diagnosis)

HOYS
07-29-2012, 08:40 PM
The adapter hits the cradle with most oil filters.

Starglow
07-29-2012, 10:01 PM
I removed the oil filter adapter already, not going to change back and risk oil leak, no problem, I'll use it for something else someday.

Make sure you transfer the threaded center stud for the oil filter from the 3400. It comes out with an allen wrench.

-pulled 3.5 balancer with puller I had, I don't have puller for the one on 3.4 (has tapped holes for puller, could use my claw type and damage trigger ring) I'll try Autozone & O Reillys for rental

Good idea to use the correct puller.

-some of my old injectors from 3.4 have the black base and O rings missing (must of got away from me when I pulled rail)
I'm sure the injectors from 3.5 are fresher with good seals,
*can I use them? and or the whole 3.5 fuel rail?

It's best to just get new seals. I don't think the 3.5 injector electrical connectors are compatible with your GA and the fuel rail definitely isn't because it has no return line with a fuel pressure regulator system like the GA requires so you have to use the 3400 fuel rail.

-when I drop new engine in, can it be completely together with exhaust manifolds (no crossover) completed intake, coil packs/wires & alternator or should I leave certain parts off? (when I pulled 3.4 out it was partially disassembled for diagnosis)

You can not install the engine complete because of the fuel line connection seal on the fuel rail since that connection will be under the UIM. Only way to get around that is cut your fuel lines which I don't recommend doing. Make sure the fuel rail isn't leaking before installing the UIM...I learned that lesson the hard way.

You will have more room to hook everything up if you leave the alternator off but that's completely up to you. You will have much less wiggle room when installing the engine. The coil pack can't be installed until after the UIM, but it's fine to install the exhaust manifolds while the engine is out and in fact is much easier.

Starglow
07-29-2012, 10:05 PM
I completed my swap early last month. Why do you have to pull the filter adapter? I didn't, in fact I love its location. Looks nice and clean.

You might regret that the first time you try changing the oil, but you can always remove it later if desired.

over's ga
07-30-2012, 03:42 PM
GOT PARTS!

http://s10.postimage.org/ljan8ri95/IMG_20120730_141926.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image host (http://postimage.org/)

Thanks Milzys, GREAT SERVICE

over's ga
07-30-2012, 04:07 PM
should of looked closer at 3.5 before asking stupid questions, even the injectors are different length, good tips on install..

Things are going too smooth (other then HEAT)
-I'm reusing intake gaskets from 3500, there in new shape and soft rubber
-swapped front rocker covers (3500 is perfect clean under)
*in test fitting upper intake, I think the reason for others thinking fpr is hitting is really just injector harness out of place between manifolds

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
GREAT PARTS & SERVICE AT MILZYS, Thanks Mike.

Starglow
07-30-2012, 07:18 PM
*in test fitting upper intake, I think the reason for others thinking fpr is hitting is really just injector harness out of place between manifolds

Nope...you'll find out when you test fit the 3500 UIM with the 3400 fuel rail. The FPR hits the neck of the 3500 UIM so the UIM mounting bolt holes won't line up. What I did was elongate the two mounting holes on the fuel rail mounting brackets that bolt to the LIM so the fuel rail can be pulled forward but it's still a tight squeeze on clearance.

over's ga
07-30-2012, 08:35 PM
ok, I was thinking it was with 3400 UIM on 3500. I've read to much on this swap!

on gaskets, Autozone and oreilys want $45 for exhaust manifold pair! what gives? any other source, I'm going to ck online now....... could re-use, I'm seriously going to run out of money before I even put oil and antifreeze in this thing, its worth it!

autozone does have puller though, may have to go to oreilys for installer

over's ga
07-30-2012, 09:17 PM
quick question, on temp sensor, on dr. side back head, I just use the 3500 sending unit and extend wires correct? threads are different between two.

over's ga
08-01-2012, 03:05 PM
quick question, on temp sensor, on dr. side back head, I just use the 3500 sending unit and extend wires correct? threads are different between two.

answer my own question, yes use 3500 temp sender, extend wires a few inches (if you didn't buy in kit)
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Is temperature sending unit wires only ones to extend/modify if using UIM from 3400 GA?
(CPS harness reaches but has to be carefully routed)

low oil warning sensor is still a question, do I just jump the wires at plug?

I think I read to test fit CPS adapter bracket but *leave off until engine is in car, Correct?

On new pasg. side trans bracket before dropping engine in, best if bracket bolted to trans or engine?

Goal tonight is get engine in.
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...edit :cheers: Got motor in, by 9pm. Messed around with other stuff for couple hours

over's ga
08-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Couple questions "still" after engine in place on ac bracket/spacer and extending wires.

I went to bolt up the a/c compressor with the shorter Milzy spacer and the (different) angles of threaded holes are wrong (because of the shorter alum. spacer) I tried to get it to work short of tightening to point of bending bolts or breaking/stripping threaded boss on oil pan, I just used the thicker STOCK 04 GA spacer and it bolted up fine! (the engine I pulled out of car was a salvage engine from unknown year, model could that be reason? certain ones don't need shorter A/C spacer??

After 3500 was safely in I got ps pump & alt mounted to test if stock belt would work and if everything lined up with that ac spacer, after 20 min trying to figure out belt path (my decal with picture of route is half missing) I got belt on and everything looks good, any explanation on this quirk?

on low oil sender plug, do I use old GA pan sensor in plug with jumper between or just jump the empty plug? sorry if that's stupid question

since I'm using GA 3400 UIM, just the temp sensor extended a few inches to back head is only wire splice/extension I need, correct?

....engine went in fine Wednesday, adapter trans bracket hung up and gave me fits to get things lined up but then I got smart, removed it and slipped it in after everything was in and snug. I took yesterday off from swap and should be back on it tonight to finish

Starglow
08-03-2012, 02:41 PM
Couple questions "still" after engine in place on ac bracket/spacer and extending wires.

I went to bolt up the a/c compressor with the shorter Milzy spacer and the (different) angles of threaded holes are wrong (because of the shorter alum. spacer) I tried to get it to work short of tightening to point of bending bolts or breaking/stripping threaded boss on oil pan, I just used the thicker STOCK 04 GA spacer and it bolted up fine! (the engine I pulled out of car was a salvage engine from unknown year, model could that be reason? certain ones don't need shorter A/C spacer??

on low oil sender plug, do I use old GA pan sensor in plug with jumper between or just jump the empty plug? sorry if that's stupid question

since I'm using GA 3400 UIM, just the temp sensor extended a few inches to back head is only wire splice/extension I need, correct?

I had the exact same issue with the MMS AC compressor spacer and the stock spacer worked fine. Yes, you can just jumper the oil sender plug and I can't think of any other wiring mods you would need.

over's ga
08-03-2012, 03:38 PM
I had the exact same issue with the MMS AC compressor spacer and the stock spacer worked fine. Yes, you can just jumper the oil sender plug and I can't think of any other wiring mods you would need.

that's a relief on ac spacer, as it was said to be a critical part. oh well.

Thanks again for assistance, I should be done soon

over's ga
08-04-2012, 01:26 PM
Got swap finished last night! :clap: Runs real good so far, haven't driven yet, waiting on unit bearing to get here & nose is off.

I have to look into a couple things. Fans not going on, What temp do the fans go on under idle conditions? I haven't researched yet, but remember there is a protocol ecu uses to determine when. All I have is cars temp gage and laser temp gun, the gage goes up to middle reading about 200°-205° the thermostat housing temp is way under 195 and area of head with temp sender is higher but not yet 195. only water in system, bled air out with bleed screw with res. cap off.

It may be I'm just not giving fans enough time time to kick on (and fear of overheating) but for now I've jumped the driver side fan to be on when running it.

other thing is I can't find low oil level harness?? and I can't remember if I actually disconnected it when I pulled this engine, old engine has sender on bottom of pan (who ever put old engine in may of delt with it, I don't know?? but no dash lights are on.

Starglow
08-04-2012, 02:17 PM
Got swap finished last night! :clap: Runs real good so far, haven't driven yet, waiting on unit bearing to get here & nose is off.

I have to look into a couple things. Fans not going on, What temp do the fans go on under idle conditions? I haven't researched yet, but remember there is a protocol ecu uses to determine when. All I have is cars temp gage and laser temp gun, the gage goes up to middle reading about 200°-205° the thermostat housing temp is way under 195 and area of head with temp sender is higher but not yet 195. only water in system, bled air out with bleed screw with res. cap off.

It may be I'm just not giving fans enough time time to kick on (and fear of overheating) but for now I've jumped the driver side fan to be on when running it.

other thing is I can't find low oil level harness?? and I can't remember if I actually disconnected it when I pulled this engine, old engine has sender on bottom of pan (who ever put old engine in may of delt with it, I don't know?? but no dash lights are on.


Cool....glad to hear of another successful swap. IIRC, the fans don't kick on until around 210-220 but don't quote me on that and you can probably verify it by searching these forums. Have you turned on the AC yet because I think the fans kick on with the AC running as well. It's been a while since I researched all that so I may or may not have it exactly right.

The oil level connector should be in the same harness that has the right front wheel speed sensor wiring, so if you follow that wire you should find the oil level wiring and connector. I have a '99, so I'm not sure if that changed on later years.

over's ga
08-04-2012, 04:34 PM
Cool....glad to hear of another successful swap. IIRC, the fans don't kick on until around 210-220 but don't quote me on that and you can probably verify it by searching these forums. Have you turned on the AC yet because I think the fans kick on with the AC running as well. It's been a while since I researched all that so I may or may not have it exactly right.

The oil level connector should be in the same harness that has the right front wheel speed sensor wiring, so if you follow that wire you should find the oil level wiring and connector. I have a '99, so I'm not sure if that changed on later years.

I'm looking now for 'Fan On' temp and best place/way to read from, it was mid 90s last night and it idled for almost 1/2 hour and fans didn't go on (I never got temp reading of over 195 at thermostat housing or temp sensor though) A/C clutch does not engage so compressor is not turning, I think fan on signal along with signal to engage clutch is based on pressure so until thats fixed A/C won't turn on fans.

I think I figured out low oil wire harness, IT DOES NOT HAVE IT! I figured later ga's may be different, called o'reilys and asked for sensor and its not listed, looks like '03 was last year, engine I took out had sensor and must be older.

Edit: found this, http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172881&postcount=5 not sure what year range this is for.
...and http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1184282#post1184282

over's ga
08-09-2012, 09:09 PM
update on my project

Overall swap went smooth, cooling system is okay so far, I hate how hot it has to run.

This car has new 'fat for' 245 50 16 Kumos and will smoke them on any surface, it drives great, shifts fine, idles as expected, limited driving so far as nose and fender are off for paint work and not exactly legal.
--------

That brings me to a new challenge to try to diagnose
...I'm searching now, will post up new thread if nothing found.

I have a battery draw I can't find draining battery

-new battery, dead overnight if connected

-test light is lit dim when ran between disconnected (-) cable and (-) on battery "my shade tree test for current draw"

-I pulled every fuse and relay while watching to see test light go off but no circuit worked, only change was under hood one fuse pulled made dim light flash fast then on pasg side dash fuses, the radio fuse did same thing. I also pulled alt. harness & and main engine harness plug by fuel rail to test.

-some of front lights are out of there sockets due to header panel replaced and body work, that shouldn't cause a draw but I have to check on that. before I took headlights out, all lights front and back worked except fog lights that I think are just burned out.

-lights on radio don't work but I can turn it off, LCD screen is dead, could that be reason or the built in security? it is a monsoon version.

(I bought this car non running, had almost new battery in it that was fried/bad probably due to this)

nikkoo
08-13-2012, 12:38 PM
Just make sure mike has everything in stock so you dont wait weeks for parts And you may have to bite the bullet and make the trip to those yards find a motor out of a 2005 -2006 G6 or a malibu/impala
http://www.centplay.com/affiliate/id_139/

over's ga
08-13-2012, 01:50 PM
Just make sure mike has everything in stock so you dont wait weeks for parts And you may have to bite the bullet and make the trip to those yards find a motor out of a 2005 -2006 G6 or a malibu/impala

nikkoo, Mike had everything and I received very quick. or above was post error

..........

Waiting on some parts for front end its just been to hot to do a lot here. Still have battery drain and waiting on some help to get AC working, I did some repair and prep on urethane bumper, what a pain.

unchained_01
08-14-2012, 03:50 AM
It wasn't a post error. Sorry.

over's ga
10-19-2012, 04:58 PM
I ended up selling the '04 Grand Am, new owner is local and loves the car & power.

Just bought another project, 2002 Olds Alero with seized 3400,
doing another 3500 swap.

Already have low mi. 3500 from 2004 Malibu Max LS, just got another Milzy kit, old engine is pulled, car sat for over 3 years with water from head gasket failure in 3 cylinders so it was a major pain getting it to turn to get to torque converter bolts, I had to pull heads and play wack a mole on the pistons (one cylinder had almost 1/16" corrosion into the wall) lots of PB Blast and hitting the worst piston with large sledge & one broke grade 8 bolt with long pry bar at pully.... ..But I avoided having to drop whole front cradle with transaxle!

unchained_01
10-20-2012, 07:22 AM
got the swap bug ??

sleepyalero
10-21-2012, 01:18 AM
I ended up selling the '04 Grand Am, new owner is local and loves the car & power.

Just bought another project, 2002 Olds Alero with seized 3400,
doing another 3500 swap.

Already have low mi. 3500 from 2004 Malibu Max LS, just got another Milzy kit, old engine is pulled, car sat for over 3 years with water from head gasket failure in 3 cylinders so it was a major pain getting it to turn to get to torque converter bolts, I had to pull heads and play wack a mole on the pistons (one cylinder had almost 1/16" corrosion into the wall) lots of PB Blast and hitting the worst piston with large sledge & one broke grade 8 bolt with long pry bar at pully.... ..But I avoided having to drop whole front cradle with transaxle!

yay another 3500 alero.

are you going to keep this one? or you gonna sell it too?

over's ga
10-21-2012, 03:47 PM
got the swap bug ??

Rather not swap engines unless its a LS 3 or truck 6.0 into my jeep! Sad thing, this Alero only has 70,000 mi. it sat for at least 3 years after overheating from bad intake gaskets then head gaskets, they must of just gave up, left water in cooling system & cylinders and let it rust, the engine was good, still hone marks in the cylinders that were clean and no sludge, now two of the pistons are crushed in on top (from me) and it would have to be bored out .050"

got it real cheap, we'll see if its worth it in end, low mi. car with upgraded 40,000mi motor, I hope I can get $4000, trying to get funds for my jeep build so thats goal, it been sitting a long time!

over's ga
10-21-2012, 04:02 PM
question,

is it common for the 3400 upper intake to be a little warped? When test fitting it to 3500 lower it wants to rock a little, the gap shows from front left timing cover to righ rear flex plate area.

I tried without 3400 fuel rail and it still does it, when I snug it down it looks to pull it flush and the gap goes away, its not touching water transfer tube or anything under Plenum.

also, on the 3400 fuel rail, the two bolt holes that hold it to manifold has ~ 1/8" gap to intake before I tighten it. Is that normal?

Thanks...