3400 vs 3800

[ga_n_va]

I have a 99 GT and would like to put a 3800gtp engine in it. has anyone ever done this and can it be done. Will it fit and what mods do I have to do. Does the 3800 come with a manual tranny or automatic. and finally will the Grand prix pcm hook up to the GA pcm. Any info or thoughts on this would be helpfull.

[aleroboy]

personally the gtp motor is over used in swaps. even though the power is provin its just nothing special anymore.
it has a ton of potential but if you just plan on swapping it in and not modding it thats a lot of cash for not a whole lot more power.
the gtp only comes with an auto but can be mated to a manual.

[Blackrider]

I personally think the 3800 is over rated. It has been proven for many years but the design is da!mn near 20 years old. They couldn’t get any more power out of it so they strapped on a blower, Witch put the GTP up there but don’t forget that the last generation GTP with the 3.4DOHC was almost a fast. I would rather stick my 3400 and SC it. Plus you CANT Beat the sound of the 3400 :thumbs:

That’s just my opinion though

[SilverGA2001]

I think the 3.8 is well over 20 years old. Started life originally as a Buick engine in the 60's, and they couldn't get it to work well enough and I think they sold it off and eventually bought it back. Having one in the garage next to my 3400, I would rather have the 3800 every day over my 3400. It's more balanced and runs smoother then my 3400. The 3800 is also damn near bulletproof. Iron block and iron heads, you won't see as many gaskets leaking since the heads and block will share the same heat characteristics, unlike the 3400 with it's iron block and aluminum heads that expand and contract at different rates. The sound isn't as great though, and mine with the Borla blows it away in sound.

[Blackrider]

Those are some very good point but I just think that it is time for something new. And I won’t deny that the 3800 was probably one of the most successful engines of that past 20 years. But it having iron head goes to show you how behind the times it is.

But you are right it is still a good "daily driver" It always has been :)

[aleroboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverGA2001
[B] It's more balanced and runs smoother then my 3400.

more ballenced?
They have to run a ballence shaft to smooth the thing out.
a 60 degree V6 has better ballence form the start than a 90 degree. dotn know how to explain all the reasons why but I do know that a 60 Degree V6 is more correct than a 90.

also surprizingly the 2.8/3.1/3100/3400's dotn have major head gasket problems at least compaired to other iron block, aluminum head motors.
almost every quad 4 in my local junk yard was killed by head gasket failure arround 100,000 miles.
But I've seen the 60 degree V6 go well over 200,000 miles on stock head gaskets.
both are very durable engines, but personally I'd rather have the 3400. I kinda like under dog motors.

The 3800 is played out to me.
oh and power wise, on the GXP's the 3800 supercharged only makes 10 more hp than the 3400 supercharged.
people just don't give the 3400 enough credit

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by aleroboy
[QUOTE][i]people just don't give the 3400 enough credit

I cant agree more. The only 3400 i know that had a head gasket problem was my dads 99GT and that was at 140000K

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by aleroboy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverGA2001
[B] It's more balanced and runs smoother then my 3400.

more ballenced?
They have to run a ballence shaft to smooth the thing out.
a 60 degree V6 has better ballence form the start than a 90 degree. dotn know how to explain all the reasons why but I do know that a 60 Degree V6 is more correct than a 90.

also surprizingly the 2.8/3.1/3100/3400's dotn have major head gasket problems at least compaired to other iron block, aluminum head motors.
almost every quad 4 in my local junk yard was killed by head gasket failure arround 100,000 miles.
But I've seen the 60 degree V6 go well over 200,000 miles on stock head gaskets.
both are very durable engines, but personally I'd rather have the 3400. I kinda like under dog motors.

The 3800 is played out to me.
oh and power wise, on the GXP's the 3800 supercharged only makes 10 more hp than the 3400 supercharged.
people just don't give the 3400 enough credit

Yes I'm aware it has balance shafts. Necessity of it's 90 Degree angle. The 60's block didn't have them, their naturally more balanced. So compare how far along the 3.8 engine has come and it's a miracle. Balance shafts or not, the final product that sits in my garage is smooth as silk, something my 3400 has no chance in hell of being like. :rolleyes:

I guess you have to be a fan of the engine to appreciate it. I'm in fact not a fan of the 3400 or the 60 Degree's in general. I've had a 3.1MPFI engine around in the form of a 94 Cavalier Z24 for years, and it did have head gasket problems, and it was troublesome.

Edit: Also, til a few years ago, the 3800 was on the Worlds Ten Best Engines list repeatedly, year after year. Never have I seen the 60 Degree engines on that list. The 3800 might be old, but nobody, even the snobby magazines, can deny that it's design works extremely well. It's been snubbed many times for having iron heads and that it's pushrod powered. Who cares, it works.

[aleroboy]

Guess you had one of the few lemons.
I've never had or herd of any of my friends having problems with the 60 degree V6. and mine is very smooth.
except one of my firned but that was due to over reving it.

To each thier own, but the 3.5L dohc form olds was also on the 10 best most of its life. and from what I've seen and been told it was a hunk of crap and very prone to leaking.

Of corse magizine reviews never really ment much to me.
I rarely agree with their tests of cars or engines.
most the ones I've seen have a biased opnion anyway.

I have nothing agianst the 3800. Just that for a swap into our car its not really worth it. Time for the underdog smaller motor to kick some butt.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by aleroboy
Guess you had one of the few lemons.
I've never had or herd of any of my friends having problems with the 60 degree V6. and mine is very smooth.
except one of my firned but that was due to over reving it.

To each thier own, but the 3.5L dohc form olds was also on the 10 best most of its life. and from what I've seen and been told it was a hunk of crap and very prone to leaking.

Of corse magizine reviews never really ment much to me.
I rarely agree with their tests of cars or engines.
most the ones I've seen have a biased opnion anyway.

I have nothing agianst the 3800. Just that for a swap into our car its not really worth it. Time for the underdog smaller motor to kick some butt.

What happend to it when he over reved it? was he taking it higher than 6 grand? (with a computer)

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Blackrider
What happend to it when he over reved it? was he taking it higher than 6 grand? (with a computer)
This was on an older 3.1L in a beretta
He reved it high enough to float the valves and run them into the pistons in turn bending a few valves.
Easily sloved by stiffer springs.
My other friend with a 2.8/3100 hybrid beretta has aftermarket springs and has had the motor up to 6700 rpm without throwing anything out of the block. oh and this is an 89 motor with arround 100 k on it.

[Tomato]

the gtp only comes with an auto but can be mated to a manual.
Please do show me this, because it has be theorized but never done to an L67 FWD GP.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I personally think the 3800 is over rated. It has been proven for many years but the design is da!mn near 20 years old. They couldn’t get any more power out of it so they strapped on a blower, Witch put the GTP up there but don’t forget that the last generation GTP with the 3.4DOHC was almost a fast. I would rather stick my 3400 and SC it. Plus you CANT Beat the sound of the 3400 :thumbs:

That’s just my opinion though
Last time I checked Older Gen GTP's are not running mid to high 14's out of the box, get your numbers right.:tool:

[Blackrider]

What with the attitude???:knob: And last time i check GTP's most where running low 15's out of the box!.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Please do show me this, because it has be theorized but never done to an L67 FWD GP.

well
In the fiero L67 swaps there are manuals out there.
they use the getreg 282 and a custom built flywheel.
I think it was westcoast fiero that sold the flywheel.
Dave at DHP has told me he can do the computer side of things for a manual swap in a n-body so I assume this would also stand for the W-body
The shifter and Pedals could prolly be pulled out of a 92 W-body or somthing then of corse the custom half shafts and all that other crap.

[Tomato]

SPAZ - 13.73 @ 102.70 MPH fastest GA ever... sprayed and boosted

Matt M 1997 Black 2 door GT 12.384@112.96 BOOSTED ONLY NO SPRAY!

Also you guys are saying the Grand National and the GNX suck, lets not forget they are 3.8Ls too and would tear almost anyone here a new one.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Last time I checked Older Gen GTP's are not running mid to high 14's out of the box, get your numbers right.:tool:

Well the autos your correct but I think the manuals were really close if not in the 14's.
you must excuse me, I don't know agreat deal of stuff about the W-body

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
What with the attitude???:knob: And last time i check GTP's most where running low 15's out of the box!I.
If you can't drive, unless its a real POS most any GTP can run high 14's bone stock.

[Blackrider]

I tell you you GTP boys are so touchy :rolleyes: :p :thumbs:
I know a fue GTP guys around here that have seen some of the blown 3400 times and get in a big huff over it. Its funny to see lol

EDIT: I have never seen any stock GTP's Up here run 14's and there is a GTP Club up here consisting of about 35 member. But I’m not saying it’s impossible

[Tomato]

Also don't bring GXP cars into this they represent zero of the motor's true potential I dont see any 11second Grand Am's running around now do you? Zoomer is running 11's and its still an M90 and still a 3.8L and why are you guys bashing the 3.8L its pushrod just like yours. The GTP is what the GAGT wants to be when it grows up.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
SPAZ - 13.73 @ 102.70 MPH fastest GA ever... sprayed and boosted

Matt M 1997 Black 2 door GT 12.384@112.96 BOOSTED ONLY NO SPRAY!

Also you guys are saying the Grand National and the GNX suck, lets not forget they are 3.8Ls too and would tear almost anyone here a new one.

We are talking 3800 series 2 not the turbo 3.8L
not exaclty the same thing

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I tell you you GTP boys are so touchy :rolleyes: :p :thumbs:
I know a fue GTP guys around here that have seen some of the blown 3400 times and get in a big huff over it. Its funny to see lol

I ran a 14.1 with a pulley and an intake and my fat 255lbs ass in the drivers seat with a 2.2sec 60' there are not too many n-body's im afraid of, so I dont know why you GTP guys are in a huff, not much to fear for them ;)

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I tell you you GTP boys are so touchy :rolleyes: :p :thumbs:
I know a fue GTP guys around here that have seen some of the blown 3400 times and get in a big huff over it. Its funny to see lol

EDIT: I have never seen any stock GTP's Up here run 14's and there is a GTP Club up here consisting of about 35 member. But I’m not saying it’s impossible
I have seen 14.5 Bone stock with my own eyes, very possible takes skill to launch both of my cars were high 14's bone stock one was a 99 one was an 02.

[Blackrider]

We are Limited by a Weak ass Tranny for one thing,

see as is said SO TOUCHY:rolleyes:

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
We are talking 3800 series 2 not the turbo 3.8L
not exaclty the same thing
Nope not the same thing, but you are saying the 3.8L is old and shoudl be replaced, seems to me the old Turbo 3.8 does a damn good job of ass kicking if its old technology.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
We are Limited by a Weak ass Tranny for one thing,

see as is said SO TOUCHY:rolleyes:
Yeah because the 4T65E is so strong :rolleyes:

[Blackrider]

Lets not forget http://www.n-body.net/registry/irategt/ Stock boost for that S/C :thumbs:

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Blackrider
I tell you you GTP boys are so touchy :rolleyes: :p :thumbs:
I know a fue GTP guys around here that have seen some of the blown 3400 times and get in a big huff over it. Its funny to see lol

EDIT: I have never seen any stock GTP's Up here run 14's and there is a GTP Club up here consisting of about 35 member. But I’m not saying it’s impossible

I've never not seen a stock GTP get into the 14's. The night I ran my 15.7, and every other car out there was suffering from heat stroke, a bone stock GTP scored a 14.6 and smashed the brand new Mustang GT next to it, which got a 14.9. My 00 GTP runs 14's stock. I've yet to see one in working order not get a 14 something.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Also don't bring GXP cars into this they represent zero of the motor's true potential I dont see any 11second Grand Am's running around now do you? Zoomer is running 11's and its still an M90 and still a 3.8L and why are you guys bashing the 3.8L its pushrod just like yours. The GTP is what the GAGT wants to be when it grows up.

Why are you here bashing our motor?
I'm not saying the L67 is a bad motor. it's just not my choice.
oh as for being in the 11's
give it time I'll be there.
also zoomer is on slicks correct?
our fastest times have been run on street approved tires.
the current L67/ gtp has been arround since 97 so we are behind by 2 years and allready starting to step into gtp territory.

The reason for bring the gxp into this is because with all things equal the L67 doesnt make that much more power than the LA1.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by Tomato
Yeah because the 4T65E is so strong :rolleyes:

OMG Are you serious do not start compaining about the 4T65. Its way stronger than step up from a sunfire tranny they put in the GA

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Nope not the same thing, but you are saying the 3.8L is old and shoudl be replaced, seems to me the old Turbo 3.8 does a damn good job of ass kicking if its old technology.

please show me where I said its old and needs to be replaced.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Yeah because the 4T65E is so strong :rolleyes:

Maybe not in stock form but at least there are places allready making parts for ya.
we are just getting rolling on that.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
OMG Are you serious do not start compaining about the 4T65. Its way stronger than step up from a sunfire tranny they put in the GA
Ours is only a step up from your tranny so what is your point?? Rated for 280lbs/ft which we have stock. Try again.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Blackrider
OMG Are you serious do not start compaining about the 4T65. Its way stronger than step up from a sunfire tranny they put in the GA

To be fair, the GTP guys are in the same boat about the tranny. The 4T65 is only rated at holding 280 foot pounds of torque, which they have stock. So mods have the potential of screwin them up too. The 4T45 can hold 215 according the Powertrain website and we run 205 stock. So the tranny arguement is different depending on which side your on.. Though there are probably more parts to beef up the 4T65.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
please show me where I said its old and needs to be replaced.
Sorry you got me there, you said it was played out, interpreted it wrong.

[Blackrider]

This is wicked I don’t want to go to bed now lol. The 3800 has proven it time and again but when they reached the most they could do with it NA They went and strapped a blower on it. And they made a great setup there are some really fast GTP's out there, but what else is there to do to the engine from the factory left?

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
This is wicked I don’t want to go to bed now lol. The 3800 has proven it time and again but when they reached the most they could do with it NA They went and strapped a blower on it. And they made a great setup there are some really fast GTP's out there, but what else is there to do to the engine from the factory left?
You are just ****ed because GM didn't give you guys a Blower From the factory, the N/A 3.8L is far from maxed out so I don't know why you keep saying that. The fastest All Motor GT is fater then the fastest All Motor GAGT on here so what is your point?

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Sorry you got me there, you said it was played out, interpreted it wrong.

Played out for swaps
its fine for what it comes in but its nothing special any more for swaps.
myabe not into the n-body but many people have done the swaps in fieros and berettas.
its just not special any more to see an L67 swap.
I'd like to see somthign different like a northstar or somthing into an n-body

[Blackrider]

Anyways i am just bugging you about the "touchy GTP owner" thing, nothing intended buy it. Its been a fun agument but its time for bed Good Night guys! :thumbs:

EDIT: Hence I said "From the factory" GM is not going to put out a 3800 that is built to the t!ts nore would they do that with any engine. GM's not Acura :rolleyes: lol The 3400 is a newer engine that they can still improve on in my opinion but they probably wont because of the new line of GM Engines coming out both the 3400 and 3800 wont be around much longer

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
You are just ****ed because GM didn't give you guys a Blower From the factory, the N/A 3.8L is far from maxed out so I don't know why you keep saying that. The fastest All Motor GT is fater then the fastest All Motor GAGT on here so what is your point?

what is the fastest all motor GPGT??
whats it run?

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Blackrider
This is wicked I don’t want to go to bed now lol. The 3800 has proven it time and again but when they reached the most they could do with it NA They went and strapped a blower on it. And they made a great setup there are some really fast GTP's out there, but what else is there to do to the engine from the factory left?

Uh.. a better blower?? Imagine a RSM strapped to a 3800... We've all seen the Eaton/Magnusons on the 3400, then RSM came along and scored a solid hit with their supercharger. GM didn't just strap that blower on, they wanted a GTP that earned bragging rights. Might as well go balls to the wall and make sure. If there was an available stock supercharger option on the GA's, you know people would snap them up. Would you then say that GM had nothing left to do but strap a blower on it? The stock 3400 is at 175... time to beef it up. The next incarnation will be the 3.5 rated a little higher. Not much more though.

Edit: The new Malibu will have a 60 Degree 3.5 with 192hp.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
what is the fastest all motor GPGT??
whats it run?

Wes Blair 2000 Silvermist 2 door GT 14.206@92.96
IIRC AllMotorgagt - 14.73 @ 94.58 MPH is the fastest all motor on the board? am I right?

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Wes Blair 2000 Silvermist 2 door GT 14.206@92.96
IIRC AllMotorgagt - 14.73 @ 94.58 MPH is the fastest all motor on the board? am I right?

Yea but we are also just scratching the surface with our mods.
we are just now starting to get a good aftermarket going.
If I wasn't supercharged now I'd go to dethrone the 14.2 but I couldnt pass up the chance to get a SC for 1000 bux

[Blackrider]

And why would I be ****ed that we didn’t get a blower. It would probably pull past the GTP, its bad marketing, If it did come With a blower it would destroy GTP sales because lets face it people don’t buy the GTP for the looks

Ouch that was below the belt! lol

Originally posted by aleroboy
but I couldnt pass up the chance to get a SC for 1000 bux
:rage: Basterd! :)

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
Yea but we are also just scratching the surface with our mods.
we are just now starting to get a good aftermarket going.
If I wasn't supercharged now I'd go to dethrone the 14.2 but I couldnt pass up the chance to get a SC for 1000 bux
Would that be with or without Spray??? Also sttrap an aftermarket blower on a L67, Scott Cook is running 11.8 in his Bonevill SSEi full interior and all and thats a way heavier car. He is transplaintg the motor into a GP and its expected to run 10's.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
And why would I be ****ed that we didn’t get a blower. It would probably pull past the GTP, its bad marketing, If it did come With a blower it would destroy GTP sales because lets face it people don’t buy the GTP for the looks

Ouch that was below the belt! lol
guess im a little mature for my age becuase the 100lbs of body cladding got ugly after a year. The GA is more of a kid racer car, its overstyled glad I got rid of mine for my GTP. Plus its so much more a chick car then a GP and lets not forget the current body style GP came out in 97 ;)

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Blackrider
And why would I be ****ed that we didn’t get a blower. It would probably pull past the GTP, its bad marketing, If it did come With a blower it would destroy GTP sales because lets face it people don’t buy the GTP for the looks

Ouch that was below the belt! lol

As having both... I'd trade away my GAGT first. The 3800 is by far got life in it. Beef up its internals, just like many of us are doing with the 3400, and you have a very solid motor. Instead of boosting the 60 Degree's, they've just been increasing it's displacement. It's gone from 2.8 all the way to the next version, which seems to be the last version planned, the 3.5 liter. Talk about played out, how much more are they going to tug out of this block?

[aleroboy]

You can't dethrone an all motor car with nitrous:rolleyes:
besides my adjusted sealevel time was allready faster with nitrous.
13.9 is my sea level correction

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by Tomato
guess im a little mature for my age becuase the 100lbs of body cladding got ugly after a year. The GA is more of a kid racer car, its overstyled glad I got rid of mine for my GTP. Plus its so much more a chick car then a GP and lets not forget the current body style GP came out in 97 ;)

LOL Aww that was good you crack me up dude. Guess you must be old for your age because most of the people I see driving Grand Prix's need about 5 min to get in and out of the damn things. ;)

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by SilverGA2001
As having both... I'd trade away my GAGT first. The 3800 is by far got life in it. Beef up its internals, just like many of us are doing with the 3400, and you have a very solid motor. Instead of boosting the 60 Degree's, they've just been increasing it's displacement. It's gone from 2.8 all the way to the next version, which seems to be the last version planned, the 3.5 liter. Talk about played out, how much more are they going to tug out of this block?

I've herd rumors of variations up to a 3.9L
and also of replacing the 3800 with the 60 degree. but who know what gm will really do.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
LOL Aww that was good you crack me up dude. Guess you must be old for your age because most of the people I see driving Grand Prix's need about 5 min to get in and out of the damn things. ;)
so are most of the people I see driving MB E55's doens't mean I wouldn't want one ;)

[SilverGA2001]

Guys... it all comes down to if things were equal. You put a 3400 in the W Body and it's got nearly 500 pounds more body weight to contend with. That's a big advantage we have, weight. The GAGT 4 door lists at 3168, the GTP lists well over 3400 pounds, if not 3500. Side by side, a GPGT and a GP body with the 3400... the GPGT would squash it. I hate to say that, but we have to look at this objectively. Smaller motor... there's no replacement for displacement.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
I've herd rumors of variations up to a 3.9L
and also of replacing the 3800 with the 60 degree. but who know what gm will really do.
Well they went back to teh 3.8L for the 04 GP, why fix something that isn't broken ;)

[Blackrider]

lol Aww dude I am going to be honest with you I love both cars, I am a fan of the GAGT's Styling more thought but that’s just me, There is nothing like the wine of a GTP. I'm just Bugging you, i hope you don’t take it to seriously.:cheers:

[aleroboy]

very true but back to the point of this topic which was swapping an L67 into a gagt.
for the cash of the swap a 3400 would be faster if you took the money to mod it instead of do the swap.

speaking of a 3400 in the GP why the hell dont they have that for a base motor instead of the 3100???

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Tomato
Well they went back to teh 3.8L for the 04 GP, why fix something that isn't broken ;)

While were on the 04, gm is dumb to drop the 2 door.
Do they think every one wants a family car?
I always liked the sportiness of the 2 door gtp.
looks like everything is going 4 door :(

[Blackrider]

Yes back the the point. I personaly dont thing it is worth the money to put the 3800 into the GAGT. I'm not to sure of the cost but. I would guess that you could get a 3400 to pull the same time slips with the same amount of money.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by aleroboy
very true but back to the point of this topic which was swapping an L67 into a gagt.
for the cash of the swap a 3400 would be faster if you took the money to mod it instead of do the swap.

speaking of a 3400 in the GP why the hell dont they have that for a base motor instead of the 3100???

Same with the Monte Carlo. I think it's to justify it's use in our cars. Top engine in our cars shouldn't be the bottom in the Grand Prix, it'd be bad looking for the line up. What bothers me is the Minivans. Fact they used the 3400 at all for that duty, and then used better exhaust manifolds to sneak in 10 extra hp.

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
very true but back to the point of this topic which was swapping an L67 into a gagt.
for the cash of the swap a 3400 would be faster if you took the money to mod it instead of do the swap.

speaking of a 3400 in the GP why the hell dont they have that for a base motor instead of the 3100???
Yeah more then likely for the $ of the swap , buying mods with that will make the 3400 faster then the BASE 3.8L, but if the person wants to get real serrious and still stay V6, I say the 3.8L is a much better choice to haul arse.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by aleroboy
While were on the 04, gm is dumb to drop the 2 door.
Do they think every one wants a family car?
I always liked the sportiness of the 2 door gtp.
looks like everything is going 4 door :(

I just hope that they are not trying to market more towards the Sunfire and Cav:(

[aleroboy]

well the bottom motor in the monte carlo and the impalla is a 3400

[Tomato]

Originally posted by aleroboy
While were on the 04, gm is dumb to drop the 2 door.
Do they think every one wants a family car?
I always liked the sportiness of the 2 door gtp.
looks like everything is going 4 door :(
No GM is getting smart drop what doesn't sell as much. Plus with the GTO comming out there is no need for another coupe in the family.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Yes back the the point. I personaly dont thing it is worth the money to put the 3800 into the GAGT. I'm not to sure of the cost but. I would guess that you could get a 3400 to pull the same time slips with the same amount of money.

Going back to there's no replacement for displacement. That eliminates the chance of dropping the 3800 in anyway, since it consumes more space because of the 90 degree angle. Won't even fit without serious custom work. It's simply not made to fit our cars.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by SilverGA2001
Going back to there's no replacement for displacement. That eliminates the chance of dropping the 3800 in anyway, since it consumes more space because of the 90 degree angle. Won't even fit without serious custom work. It's simply not made to fit our cars.
oh trust me it will fit
I've seen a northstar under the hood of an alero.

[Blackrider]

Originally posted by Tomato
GTO comming out there is no need for another coupe in the family.

True

Originally posted by SilverGA2001
Going back to there's no replacement for displacement. That eliminates the chance of dropping the 3800 in anyway, since it consumes more space because of the 90 degree angle. Won't even fit without serious custom work. It's simply not made to fit our cars.

Its all about the bang for the buck.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by aleroboy
well the bottom motor in the monte carlo and the impalla is a 3400

Sorry, tired. I knew that damnit. I was just checking out dad's girlfriends Monte Carlo with the 3400. 4:15am is not the time for all this stuff to explode into a conversation.

As for the 4 door vs 2 door GP's, I saw a sales chart once of the sales differences. The 2 door only had maybe 20 percent of the sales it seems. Just not cost effective, especially with the new model coming out soon. Saved a ton on the new one without having to plan for a 2 door version as well.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by aleroboy
oh trust me it will fit
I've seen a northstar under the hood of an alero.

Yeah, so have I. But how much work did it take to install that? If we try hard enough, as *** did, we can fit a V8 into the car and make it RWD. But WHY. I said it'd take a lot of custom work. Can't deny that, not at all.

[Blackrider]

Well as i have said a fue time Its been fun good night guys. No hard feelings Tomato :D :cheers:

[Tomato]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Well as i have said a fue time Its been fun good night guys. No hard feelings Tomato :D :cheers:
None here either bro, a flame war is always good once in a while for your health, like a glass of red wine LOL!

[SilverGA2001]

Close this thread... My inbox just puked out a nasty stream of GAGT.com messages.

[SpyhunteR]

I got some words to close this... 2.2L ecotec is going to kill both the 3.4 and 3.8 .... by a lot..


moot point arguing both motors...

no replacement for displacement? sure there is.. I have a couple replacements for displacement...

the SR20DET, RB20DET, RB26DETT... these motors come to mind... as well as... hmmm going to another company.. we got the K20A(220hp 152tq), H22A (200hp 161tq) oh my bad these numbers seem weak cuz they're N/A!!!, let's even it up w/ a blower kit these motors would own you.

yeh go home... displacements old skool...hehe.

[Vegeta]

2.2? Heh...Ill get that that. I wasnt going to post but im bored now at 7:40 am.

Grand ams are owned mostly by younger people. Younger people dont have the experience to fabricate custom parts. Custom parts cost money. Making power costs money, which the new grand prix has in aftermarket and in owners. Comparing across platform about NA vs NA is lame. 14.7 in a grand am with a 3400 is slow compared to what CAN be done NA. COmputer tuned...nope. Computer tuning made about a 1 second difference on a friends car (just over, not just under). Many variables.

3800 is set to make 225 NA soon, and the SC to 285. 3400 is not going away soon either and hte 3500 is set to make 200.

Now to the 2.2 comment.

3.6 DOHC. OWNED!

http://gm.wieck.com/forms/gm/*query?carengines&Source=all&sort=importdate%20&Page=1

[3x3]

I have a funny feeling that 14.2 will be had by this summer for Naturally aspirated GAGT times.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by 3x3
I have a funny feeling that 14.2 will be had by this summer for Naturally aspirated GAGT times.
oh yea

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by Vegeta


Now to the 2.2 comment.

3.6 DOHC. OWNED!




Now why is GM racing the 2.2 and not the 3.6dohc than?
:boogie:

[GTPprix]

Because the 3.6 does not come in the J-Car platform, thats pretty easy to understand.

[Sorry_Officer]

Originally posted by Tomato
AllMotorgagt - 14.73 @ 94.58 MPH is the fastest all motor on the board? am I right?

I will shatter that.................I just need to get to a decent track and work out my traction problems.

I have already raced a modded GTP and let me say........he was very very surprised when I lifted up my hood.

MJHurley is also another canidate for breaking this too..........if fact I think he has a better chance because he doesn't have a body kit like I do.

[Malibu66]

SpyhunteR
Those motors are great in light wieght cars and rev to 7-9K with great hp, but they do not put out enough torque for a 3000lbs car. No matter what you do to a 4cyl, you will never be able to crank out large amounts of torque.

Oh yeah, you forgot to mention and engine. Mitsu 4G63 (195lbs 210tq)

[bszopi]

Just for arguements sake, there is no way to compare the 3.8L from the GNs to a 3800. The 3.8L Buick is a COMPLETELY different engine. It uses its own block from Buick, which is very different when compared to the 3.8L Chevy block of the same time period. It still is a very badly balanced engine, but it is much more stout than the 3.8L Chevy or the current 3800 series.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by bszopi
Just for arguements sake, there is no way to compare the 3.8L from the GNs to a 3800. The 3.8L Buick is a COMPLETELY different engine. It uses its own block from Buick, which is very different when compared to the 3.8L Chevy block of the same time period. It still is a very badly balanced engine, but it is much more stout than the 3.8L Chevy or the current 3800 series.

It had higher nickel content in the block right??

I think the point here was that the 3.8 and 3800 in all other GM cars are the same basic design. Pushrod, 90 degreesm same displacement, same bore and stroke too I believe??

Anyway, I would have to agree that the 3.8 does seem to run pretty silky smooth. And they do last for a hell of a long time. Good engine as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by SpyhunteR I got some words to close this... 2.2L ecotec is going to kill both the 3.4 and 3.8 .... by a lot..


moot point arguing both motors...

no replacement for displacement? sure there is.. I have a couple replacements for displacement...

the SR20DET, RB20DET, RB26DETT... these motors come to mind... as well as... hmmm going to another company.. we got the K20A(220hp 152tq), H22A (200hp 161tq) oh my bad these numbers seem weak cuz they're N/A!!!, let's even it up w/ a blower kit these motors would own you.

yeh go home... displacements old skool...hehe.

And Spy, those engines make good power, yes. Of course you have to wait until your at 3500-4000 RPM (for a turbo) to 5500-6000 RPM (for VTEC & similar VVT&L) before you even get those high peaky numbers, and even then, like someone said, they would not be effective on a heavier car. 200 hp and no torque is nice on a 2600 lb RSX-S, but not a 3100 lb GA. Also, the SR20DET tuned maxes out at like 400 streetable hp right?? Give or take 50 if you have higher or lower octane premium gas. Then you have a car that has little power to start with and it comes out of nowhere all of the sudden, must be fun to drive I imagine :rolleyes: Same goes for Supra and RB26DETT and 4G63.

Or you could have a supercharged 3.8, mod it with the same amount of money as the SR20DET needs (including the price to get each respective motor, which should be cheaper for a 3.8 S/C L67 with everything you need, and has more hp and torque stock). Then do a pulley swap, maybe better cam, and ECU change, port polish, whatever. You could get maybe 400 at the wheels or more and use pump gas, and have plenty of torque and an even torque curve with even torque at the low end. Get another S/C instead of the Eaton and you can even have more power and boost.

Hell, if you get the 3.8L turbo GN engine, there is less lag due to greater exhaust output, so it has plenty of torque.

That is my beef with low displacement engines, they have no low end no matter what almost, unless you're talkin about supercharged, but then they tend to lose what they would have had with a turbo on the high end.

BTW, in any case, no matter what, there is no replacement for displacement. By adding a turbo or S/C or whatever to your engine, you are increasing the amount of air/fuel it can displace.

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by Malibu66
SpyhunteR
Those motors are great in light wieght cars and rev to 7-9K with great hp, but they do not put out enough torque for a 3000lbs car. No matter what you do to a 4cyl, you will never be able to crank out large amounts of torque.

Oh yeah, you forgot to mention and engine. Mitsu 4G63 (195lbs 210tq)


I'm gonna say one factual thing.. the Skyline is nowhere near being a light car..

and the eclipse was never a light car either..

and the SR20DET is a great awesome 4 cyl that makes some great power when you do some good tuning on it.......

I'm obviously a fan of the smaller motors aren't I?

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by VTECSiGAH8R
And Spy, those engines make good power, yes. Of course you have to wait until your at 3500-4000 RPM (for a turbo) ............. Then you have a car that has little power to start with and it comes out of nowhere all of the sudden, must be fun to drive I imagine :rolleyes: Same goes for Supra and RB26DETT and 4G63.

That is my beef with low displacement engines, they have no low end no matter what almost, unless you're talkin about supercharged, but then they tend to lose what they would have had with a turbo on the high end.

BTW, in any case, no matter what, there is no replacement for displacement. By adding a turbo or S/C or whatever to your engine, you are increasing the amount of air/fuel it can displace. [/B]

The RB26DETT makes great power right from teh start. I honestly have definately got a good feeling of what it feels like. That lag that you talk about is negligable to the point where it doesn't even matter. Good god what a crazy feeling.. *yeh I guess I have rode shotgun on the left side on one occasion* the RB26DETT is my replacement for displacement any day of the week.. *shrugs* again I'm a fan of smaller engined cars.... small lightweight efficient doing lots of thigns out of nothing gas sipping...

everybody has their preference.. ;) but that no replacement for displacement isn't what it seemed to be as in the past.. the displacement replacements are definately edging closer and closer.. you gotta admit to that..

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by SpyhunteR
The RB26DETT makes great power right from teh start. I honestly have definately got a good feeling of what it feels like. That lag that you talk about is negligable to the point where it doesn't even matter. Good god what a crazy feeling.. *yeh I guess I have rode shotgun on the left side on one occasion* the RB26DETT is my replacement for displacement any day of the week.. *shrugs* again I'm a fan of smaller engined cars.... small lightweight efficient doing lots of thigns out of nothing gas sipping...

everybody has their preference.. ;) but that no replacement for displacement isn't what it seemed to be as in the past.. the displacement replacements are definately edging closer and closer.. you gotta admit to that..

Once again, there still is NO replacement for displacement. Turbo, better flowing parts, supercharger, Nitrous, all of that is designed to get more air in so that more air and fuel can be displaced. That simple.

[Vegeta]

That would be volumetric efficiency, not displacement. What is the replacement for displacement? Efficiency.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally posted by Vegeta
That would be volumetric efficiency, not displacement. What is the replacement for displacement? Efficiency.

True, earlier I was gonna come back and say efficiency because if you can makes the mixture swirl right and detonate at the right time and can maintain torque while revving insanely high, then those are replacements. But general increase in power comes from more air a fuel mixing. Efficiency is based on how good you combust what you get in there.

[fschambe]

Originally posted by Blackrider
Anyways i am just bugging you about the "touchy GTP owner" thing, nothing intended buy it. Its been a fun agument but its time for bed Good Night guys! :thumbs:

EDIT: Hence I said "From the factory" GM is not going to put out a 3800 that is built to the t!ts nore would they do that with any engine. GM's not Acura :rolleyes: lol The 3400 is a newer engine that they can still improve on in my opinion but they probably wont because of the new line of GM Engines coming out both the 3400 and 3800 wont be around much longer


Hmm, grand national was pretty "built to the tits"

[bszopi]

The GN wasn't a 3800 either. It was a Buick only 3.8L that was actually quite different than the GM 3.8L available in the Camaros and Monte Carlos of the same time period. And even then, it was far from being built to its full potential. With just a couple of mods, you can drop into the 10s on an otherwise stock GN. Granted, it was fast from the factory, but no where near its full potential.

[3400MAN]

Tomato: My GA doesen't want to be any type of Grand Prix dog. Get a grip.

Thanks for bringing up the Grand National. Fastest street car in America for 1986 according to Car & Driver that year. I believe it's 0-60 was tested at 4.6 seconds off the line. The T-Type Regals were pretty bangin too.

:thumbs:

[Schweppe23]

Wes Blair 2000 Silvermist 2 door GT 14.206@92.96

Something tells me that i wont be too far off.:D

Pat Lavanty

[steve_m]

Originally posted by ga_n_va
I have a 99 GT and would like to put a 3800gtp engine in it. has anyone ever done this and can it be done. Will it fit and what mods do I have to do. Does the 3800 come with a manual tranny or automatic. and finally will the Grand prix pcm hook up to the GA pcm. Any info or thoughts on this would be helpfull.

There is a shop in Calgary, Alberta, Canada working on a proof of concept for a 3.4-->3.8 swap. I am very sure you can build a 3.4 to exceed a stock 3.8 (easily in fact) but if you are doing a swap, why not do a ton of work and get a "built" 3.8.

I too like the 3.4 but think it would be cool to do the swap thing but only if the power gains were substantial.

[aleroboy]

If your gonna do a swap get a real motor dropped in like a northstar or somthing. :thumbs:

[steve_m]

Originally posted by aleroboy
If your gonna do a swap get a real motor dropped in like a northstar or somthing. :thumbs:


Yeah, that would be cool as well. Although from what I understand the preliminary work looks like a 3.8 is much easier.

[aleroboy]

still too much for the cash though.

[Monello]

Why dont we compare it like this,

New 99 GT went for about 21k

New 99 GTP went for about 26k

Since we saved the 5k from buying the GTP, lets invest that into the GT, and make it worth the same amount.


Theres only 3k in my engine bay, and im making more HP then a GTP. And i still have the 2k that i saved over buying the GTP. My brother has one and i can and have always beat him in races. (Mods, i am only using this statement to make a point on Price Different/Performance Difference). I am going to use the remaining 2k on Headers/tb/CAI/etc.

Now we have a Grand Am that isnt as heavy with an extra 20HP. =)

btw watch out for me at the Picnic, i will be over 300 at the crank =)

[MetaGTP1]

Originally posted by Monello




btw watch out for me at the Picnic, i will be over 300 at the crank =) [/B] If that is true, I hope you have arranged for transportation home. If you are actually pulling that much HP, you are going to blow something badly. I seriously doubt, 300 hp at the crank. :eek:

[steve_m]

Originally posted by KmanGT1
If that is true, I hope you have arranged for transportation home. If you are actually pulling that much HP, you are going to blow something badly. I seriously doubt, 300 hp at the crank. :eek:


I don't doubt 300 at the crank one bit. With the proper work this can be done to the 3.4 and safely as well.

[MetaGTP1]

Originally posted by steve_m
I don't doubt 300 at the crank one bit. With the proper work this can be done to the 3.4 and safely as well. He doesn't have a 4T65 HD in his car. I don't doubt that 300 hp at the crank is possible, but not with the upgrades he described.

[zx7ninja]

Ok guys, this thread has been enjoyable, but I have a hypothetical question for you.
Most here are saying that it is not worth it to swap the 3.8 into the GA. That the 3.8 isn't enough of an increase over the 3.4 to justify that amount of cash.
Well, what if you don't HAVE a 3.4? What if you bought the car with a 2.4 fully intending on doing a swap to a v6? A manual 2.4 no less. Or those with a 2.4 who want to go v6 power. (ok, so the question's not hypothetical:rolleyes: )
That is exactly what I did. I saw absolutely no point in paying an extra few $k for the Gt with 3.4 when I was just gonna have to spend thousands and pull it out anyway to convert to manual. Why not just save the cash, get the 2.4 manual, and use the cash saved to swap to a larger v6 than stock.
So what about it then?
So now where's the price point? It's either drop in a 3.4, and do insane amounts of custom work getting it to work in a car that was originally a 2.4, and mating it to the 5-speed manual, or drop in a 3.8 and doing insane amounts of custom work and mating it to a 5-speed manual. The 3.8 manual has been done, albeit not in a GA, and the parts exist, whereas the 3.4 and manual has not. Not including spoon, of course.
To me, and from the research i've done and from what has been said on the boards over the past year or 2, the 3.8/manual swap would be cheaper and easier than the 3.4/manual swap. And either way I would swap my current getrag for a 284, if possible.(I haven't researched the 284 swap much yet, but I believe it to be possible).

And from what I understand, even if I had a GT with 3.4, it'd be cheaper to put in a 3.8/manual combo than to simply convert the 3.4 to manual. So yes, in SOME cases, the 3.8 swap WOULD be worth it.

Like I said, I have been planning the swap for a while, and had a lot of help from people on the boards a few months ago in getting everything planned out. Unfortunately, I lost my job due to my department getting closed down, and not too long after lost a child. (unborn, but it still hurts) So my priorities were nowhere even near my car for a few months. In fact, it sat in my backyard for 6 months, and I occasionally would work on my stereo setup to escape my thoughts when needed. But I do STILL plan on doing the swap, and when done I WILL list a total price-point on it, and list individually what was required and what that step cost. So hopefully that will put an end to the "how much" and "is it worth it" and "what needs to be done" questions.

I'm sorry, but it bothers me too see everyone arguing over engines, and whether it's worth it, when instead people could be using their knowledge to help and give advice. REGARDLESS of their PERSONAL opinions of whether it's worth it or not.

How would you all like it if when someone asked about rims everyone argued whether it was worth it and which rims were better.
Or for you SC guys, how would you like it if when you asked about the SC, everyone argued wheteher it was worth it or not, insead of helping you out?
Or for car audio, everyone argued that a new cd player wasn't worth it, since you already had one? After all, why spend all that money on a new cd player when there's already one in the car? Of corse, it would sound better, but it's cheaper to just keep the stock one right? It's the same argument.
The same can be said for ANY mod, performance related or not.

And remember also, what's not worth it to you might be worth it to someone else. It's all a matter of opinion. And vice versa. It's pointless to argue about it.
Not to mention that almost everyone who commented on the swap just assumed that it would be from a 3.4 to a 3.8.

So if we can, why don't the people with knowledge here give some info on the swap? Info such as computer, tranny, half-shafts, engine bay mods, etc....
Computer and sensor mods are already on the boards, as that's where the info was given to me from people helping me out. But it wouldn't hurt to reiterate. The most helpful info would be the engine bay mods, and all the other major details.(I don't consider computer major, as you can just by a standalone for 1-2k or so and problem solved)

Please guys, this site is supposed to be about our cars, and our hobbies of modding them. Not about what's better then or or who's better than whom.

And please, i'm sorry if I came across strong here, I don't meant to offend anyone. I just wanted to prove a point, and put things in a different perspective. Sorry if anyone feels offended or flamed. It was not my intention.

Let's get some swap info going, and get along, my GA brothers. Happy modding!

[Monello]

Originally posted by KmanGT1
If that is true, I hope you have arranged for transportation home. If you are actually pulling that much HP, you are going to blow something badly. I seriously doubt, 300 hp at the crank. :eek:

Aleroboy has over 300 at the crank, and i know he still has the stock tranny =)

If you do crazy burnouts and stuff, yea the tranny will go, but if you just feather it off the line, then punch it, its fine. Im saving for a new tranny. But im not touching it til Raybestos has their parts out. And im at 260 right now, if i get headers, thats another 20, so 280. Maybe a little more considering the car is boosted. Then TB, so 284. CAI, 290. And finally, a upper/lower intake, should put me at 300. And not to mention i just ordered a 2.5inch pulley. =) So 300+ will be there.

[bszopi]

zx7ninja,

As far as mating a 3400 to a 5-spd, there are a couple 2nd Gen J-body owners who have already done it and a couple more L-body guys in the process of doing it. And I will be mating a 282 to my 3100 this summer. You mentioned a 284, which is a great tranny, but very hard to come by, not to mention getting parts for it. As far as going from a 4-cyl to a 6-cyl, a 3400 would still be much cheaper because the car came with it from the factory. Therefore the mounts and such are readily available. Whereas with a 3800, most of the mounting would have to be custom. The mounting for the 5-spd will almost most likely have to be custom, but at least you will already have the rest of the parts already there. I can't remember what else you mentioned up there, so I guess that is all I have to discuss right now. If you have any questions though, let me know!

[aleroboy]

There is an L body in denver that is getting a 3400 with manual this weekend.
The whole thing including TOG headers for the car has costed him less than 2 g's

There is NO WAY a 3800 to a manual will be cheaper than a 3400.
also having a manual already doesn't really make anything easier.
It would be too hard for me to change out my shifter, pedals, and put in a manual. the custom tune is available and half shafts wouldn't be too hard to get made up.
but its not worth my time or effort. I'll keep my sluch box
:thumbs:

If I want a V6 manual I'll get a car that came that way.

[steve_m]

Originally posted by Monello
Aleroboy has over 300 at the crank, and i know he still has the stock tranny =)

If you do crazy burnouts and stuff, yea the tranny will go, but if you just feather it off the line, then punch it, its fine. Im saving for a new tranny. But im not touching it til Raybestos has their parts out. And im at 260 right now, if i get headers, thats another 20, so 280. Maybe a little more considering the car is boosted. Then TB, so 284. CAI, 290. And finally, a upper/lower intake, should put me at 300. And not to mention i just ordered a 2.5inch pulley. =) So 300+ will be there.


From what I could see when my car was apart, there isn't a heck of a lot of gains you can get out of doing the upper and lower intakes. I wish I had done everything in stages with dyno's in between so I could be sure....

[Monello]

Im actually thinking about buying a 3.4 from a totalled car, and redoing the entire thing =)

Anyways, im sure thinking right now, who knows what will happen.

[zx7ninja]

Whoah. Wait a minute here. For the longest time here the consensus has been that mating a 5-speed to the 3400 would be extremely expensive and require custom built-as-you-go parts, and that it was next to impossible to do. My way of thinking was that if this was true, the parts for the 3800-to-manual were already out there, therefore it would be much cheaper, although still expensive.
I was figuring that if I was gonna spend the cash, go all out and do the 3800.
But now you guys tell me that it HAS been done, the 3400 has been mated to a manual. And at a MUCH lower price-point than originally thought.
I realize I haven't been around for a few months, but I was still under the impression that it hadn't been done, and was still thought to be in the multi-thousand dollar range. I had no idea things had changed this much. Goes to show how much things can change in just a short period of time.

If what you guys say is true, than I will gladly take back what I said and "eat my hat", so to speak. If true, than I would have to agree on the 3400. There would be no way I could justify the extra cost of using a 3800 when a 3400 could be used so cheaply. In fact, as much as I hate to admit it, I can't even justify it to myself anymore in light of this new info. If what was said is true, than I think i'm just going to scrap all my 3800 plans and go with a 3400 and mate it instead.

Man, I can only imagine what I could do with a 3400 and throw even just half the cash I would've used on the 3800 swap into it. That'd be one bad 3400.

aleroboy and bszopi, i'm sending you both pm's now for more info. And thanks for letting me know.

Who knows, at this price, maybe, just MAYBE, I could have it done by GAP. Possible, but no guarantees.

[waffler]

i dont think the 5sp was mated to a 3400 in a grand am but in another car

[bszopi]

It doesn't matter what car it is in. The 5-spds are physically smaller than 4t60-Es, so they should be smaller or similiar in size to a 4T45-E. The only issue I could even see would be the PCM, but there are always ways around that as well.

[GPXSS]

gee all this bickering 'almost' makes me want to get a GA so i can have the fastest N/A 1/4 mile

[Greed4Speed]

I haven't read all this thread, nor do I care to, but isn't the 90* engine wider than the 60*, and would the 3800 even fit (width wise)? If it did, why stop there look at the 4.3L.

What about the Aurora engine?

There isn't much room to play around in the 99 up GA's, so I guess the Northstar idea is a no way thing (w/out major frame mods). Where would you find space for 2 more cylinders? I could barely get a breakover in between the frame and the idler pulley to change my belt.

Talk about GNX's all you want, but don't forget the Syclones and Typhoons. Stock: Mid 13 sec, turbo 4.3L, awd trucks! :thumbs:

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by Greed4Speed
I haven't read all this thread, nor do I care to, but isn't the 90* engine wider than the 60*, and would the 3800 even fit (width wise)? If it did, why stop there look at the 4.3L.

What about the Aurora engine?

There isn't much room to play around in the 99 up GA's, so I guess the Northstar idea is a no way thing (w/out major frame mods). Where would you find space for 2 more cylinders? I could barely get a breakover in between the frame and the idler pulley to change my belt.

Talk about GNX's all you want, but don't forget the Syclones and Typhoons. Stock: Mid 13 sec, turbo 4.3L, awd trucks! :thumbs:

The northstar has been done in an alero
I'd post the pic but its allready posted elsewhere on the borad.
it has been doen and I'm sure it will be again.
if I ever get rich and bored you'll see a twin turbo northstar AWD alero.

ANYTHING can be done with a bottoless budget.

[Greed4Speed]

Most impressive.....the required budget and the crammed in northstar.

[CaliGrandAM]

There is better. There is an 02 grand am already running 6.7 @212 in a 1/4 mile. (yes a 1/4 mile not 1/8)

With money anything is possible.

Personally I wouldn't really modify this car. Its an amazing car stock, why **** it up. Want v8 get a mustang, want to modify get a civic and turbo that sucker into 13th or 12th.

[aleroboy]

Originally posted by CaliGrandAM
There is better. There is an 02 grand am already running 6.7 @212 in a 1/4 mile. (yes a 1/4 mile not 1/8)

With money anything is possible.

Personally I wouldn't really modify this car. Its an amazing car stock, why **** it up. Want v8 get a mustang, want to modify get a civic and turbo that sucker into 13th or 12th.

to each their own:thumbs:

[Greed4Speed]

A 6.7 sec GA wouldn't be streetable at all. Everything I've read so far has been streetable.

Why mod our cars? Why not? I'll never do an engine transplant on the GA, but I can't leave it bone stock. I have my Camaro to do stuff like that, but a lot of people don't. There are always people that want to do something noone else has. Lets face it, if everyone modded the same cars it would get pretty boring.

[Licit]

Originally posted by CaliGrandAM
There is better. There is an 02 grand am already running 6.7 @212 in a 1/4 mile. (yes a 1/4 mile not 1/8)

With money anything is possible.

Personally I wouldn't really modify this car. Its an amazing car stock, why **** it up. Want v8 get a mustang, want to modify get a civic and turbo that sucker into 13th or 12th.

Oh don't advise getting a Mustang GT, my buddy got one('02) not long ago. I went to the track with him and he ran a 15.07 and then 15.11. Car and Driver runs them around a 15.1. The Mach 1 rocks a good bit better, the SVT rules(390hp,390 ft.lb.). I feel sorry for him now, insurance is $100's more than I pay for a weak performing V8, and guess who he calls for rides when it snows:p . The man with the GAGT.