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crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 07:23 AM
Anyone experience this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOuoCwt3JQc&feature=g-upl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0_fcgYn5kA&feature=g-upl

Yeah it's revving up to 700rpm after letting off.

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 08:30 AM
Mine does the same thing, I just assumed it was normal. Then again, I have an SES light. lol

locoman99
11-27-2012, 08:53 AM
Your tps is going out

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 09:20 AM
Mine does the same thing, I just assumed it was normal. Then again, I have an SES light. lol

Mhm, there be a ghost in ethanol

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 10:04 AM
Your tps is going out

Why are you back?

Mine has done it for three years. So it's nothing urgent obviously.

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 10:17 AM
Did you ever read your ses?

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Way back in the day, the old 2.8 used to do that when the idle air sensor crapped out, and it would actually die after surging. Do you have anything to read codes with? Or take it to one of the big O'Reilly/Autozone/Advance and have them scan it for you.

Scan it before you start trying things, just so you don't toss in a million hours and a few hundred bucks

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 12:11 PM
My SES light is for an EVAP leak that I can't find, so I doubt it has anything to do with this. But I dont know.

TDavis
11-27-2012, 12:14 PM
That YOU couldn't find or a mechanic?

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 12:18 PM
I paid 5 bucks for Torque off the android market, and 12 bucks for a blue tooth adapter, and it is a very good sub $20 tool to use for the computers of these things. For basic reading/clearing codes, and even some other options, it works really nicely. Gives ya some insight under the hood, if nothing else

locoman99
11-27-2012, 12:24 PM
Why are you back?

Mine has done it for three years. So it's nothing urgent obviously.

Lol...i havent gone anywhere...i just have a life and dont have time to deal with the mechanically retarded like u that i used to.
Throttle hunting is not "normal"
like i said before...90% says tps is going...ill hedge a little n say it may be the ait sensor...but prob not.
If you have a problem with me...u aint but 20 minutes away...u wanna meet and have a discussion about it?

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 12:27 PM
loco, started off so good............ then a dump was taken.


*sigh*

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 12:28 PM
Lol...i havent gone anywhere...i just have a life and dont have time to deal with the mechanically retarded like u that i used to.
Throttle hunting is not "normal"
like i said before...90% says tps is going...ill hedge a little n say it may be the ait sensor...but prob not.
If you have a problem with me...u aint but 20 minutes away...u wanna meet and have a discussion about it?

I'm three hours and twenty minutes away. :hay:

DrFabulous
11-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Lol...i havent gone anywhere...i just have a life and dont have time to deal with the mechanically retarded like u that i used to.
Throttle hunting is not "normal"
like i said before...90% says tps is going...ill hedge a little n say it may be the ait sensor...but prob not.
If you have a problem with me...u aint but 20 minutes away...u wanna meet and have a discussion about it?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=locoman

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 12:47 PM
:applause:

locoman99
11-27-2012, 01:00 PM
Well when the op gets his car fixed we will see...considering nobody else is trying to give the guy any ideas...oh wait, this is the circle jerk grand am site full of children,ricers and people that dont actually know anything about how to even do the most basic maintenance or troublehooting.
Sad that a person comes here for help and when someone tries to help, the idiots have to start flaming.
Best advice for the op is post his problem on gaoc or 60*v6. There are people there that actually know something.

DrFabulous
11-27-2012, 01:30 PM
Well when the op gets his car fixed we will see...considering nobody else is trying to give the guy any ideas...oh wait, this is the circle jerk grand am site full of children,ricers and people that dont actually know anything about how to even do the most basic maintenance or troublehooting.
Sad that a person comes here for help and when someone tries to help, the idiots have to start flaming.
Best advice for the op is post his problem on gaoc or 60*v6. There are people there that actually know something.

lol

Okay buddy. You're right, I don't know anything about Grand Ams or how to troubleshoot or change my own oil.

You make 2 semi-helpful posts and suddenly you're all high and mighty? Don't act like 99% of your posts aren't anger-filled tiraids.

DrFabulous
11-27-2012, 01:33 PM
For the OP, though- how many miles? Maintenance up to date? Whens the last time you had it scanned?

DrFabulous
11-27-2012, 01:36 PM
Ha, nevermind the miles question. I guess I could have looked at your dash in the vid.

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 01:40 PM
Lol...i havent gone anywhere...i just have a life and dont have time to deal with the mechanically retarded like u that i used to.
Throttle hunting is not "normal"
like i said before...90% says tps is going...ill hedge a little n say it may be the ait sensor...but prob not.
If you have a problem with me...u aint but 20 minutes away...u wanna meet and have a discussion about it?

Post 7, something else to check beside throttle positioning sensor. us retards wouldn't know what that is unless some other tard spelled it out for us, oh great wise ass. stress the ass.

Post 10, something to use, as a tool, to help determine what the problem is, not only now, but in the future ooohhhwwowooooowwwowooooooo.


I see 1 helpful post, then a tangent about you being such a big, bad, man... oooh we're so impressed. you whipped your e-**** out, and ooooh baby it's soooo big all the girls just came at once.
now put it back, and help the kid, since you are obviously the only one here that has any clue about anything, ever, in all of mankind.
Btw God, you really should get off the internet, you have much, much larger problems to tend to.

[ChaosweaveR]
11-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Locodouche is back again. Once again, his advice is sub par. lol I guess he got tired of that hole he dug himself.

OP: I can't view the vid from work (need wifi for the video to even load) but from what I know, it could be these issues:

*vacuum leak
*dirty MAF
*faulty TPS
*faulty AIT
*faulty upstream O2 sensor

Is the SES light on? If so, that will greatly help in narrowing down the issues. But vacuum leaks are tricky, because they'll make a good working sensor behave abnormally due to changes in air temp and pressure.

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 02:19 PM
SES isn't on chaos, but thats why my SES is still on because I cant find the damn vac leak. :rage::banghead

[ChaosweaveR]
11-27-2012, 02:33 PM
A vacuum leak doesn't always set off the SES light, same with a TPS sensor that is starting to go wonky, but still within the preset limits of the PCM (proper voltage, etc)

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 03:25 PM
You guys are alright!

A brief history of the things i've done. I did put in a couple of new iac and tps sensors, and i also cleaned out the throttle body. A inatake pressure test passed at the throttle body. I've also replaced the following fuel pressure reg, crank 7 sensor, camshaft sensor, maf sensor, map sensor, egr, pcv, spark plug and wires, o2 sensor front and back, ingnition control module, engine temp sensor, intake temp sensor im probably missing something...

Im just trying to diagnose what that is thats happening to my car. Instead of buying every component that goes to my car before i figure it out, or buy a new grand am, i would rather get some of your thoughts and insight to how i can go about trouble shooting this. I do have some testing equipment like a actron code reader with data view. A fuel pressure tester and compression tester.

Thanks guys

shiwnath
11-27-2012, 03:34 PM
My Alero does this as well. I've actually stalled it once because it was that bad. Still does it to this day. I'm guessing it's the TPS as mentioned already.

AaronGTR
11-27-2012, 03:51 PM
He's already replaced the TPS sensor.

OP has sent several PM's to me over the last week trying to figure out the issue, but we haven't been able to come to any conclusions. Most of the stuff I would suspect, he's already replaced or looked at.

Also my car does the same thing sometimes, but not to the same degree as his. IE mine will only drop 100 rpm below the idle speed then speed up a tiny bit before settling at idle. It doesn't rev back up over 1000 rpm.

I always just assumed it was a result of the mods I've done, and of a delay in the reaction of the IAC needing time to stabilize the idle. His car is mostly stock though, so not sure what the issue could be.


Anyway, posting a public thread can be a good way to get different perspectives and more ideas.... but looking at what this thread turned into, I guess I know why he came to me first. Way to go guys. :rolleyes:

Shade2012
11-27-2012, 03:55 PM
He's already replaced the TPS sensor.

OP has sent several PM's to me over the last week trying to figure out the issue, but we haven't been able to come to any conclusions. Most of the stuff I would suspect, he's already replaced or looked at.

Also my car does the same thing sometimes, but not to the same degree as his. IE mine will only drop 100 rpm below the idle speed then speed up a tiny bit before settling at idle. It doesn't rev back up over 1000 rpm.

I always just assumed it was a result of the mods I've done, and of a delay in the reaction of the IAC needing time to stabilize the idle. His car is mostly stock though, so not sure what the issue could be.


Anyway, posting a public thread can be a good way to get different perspectives and more ideas.... but looking at what this thread turned into, I guess I know why he came to me first. Way to go guys. :rolleyes:

If you can't figure it out, were all f***ed. lol

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 04:10 PM
My Alero does this as well. I've actually stalled it once because it was that bad. Still does it to this day. I'm guessing it's the TPS as mentioned already.

Yeah buddy. My car is stalling down to 500 and revving to 1200. 700rpm throw. When my car bottoms out at 500rpm the headlights and in-dash controls will dim significantly.

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 04:20 PM
The dim is simply the alternator not spinning fast enough, don't get to chasing that..

You've replaced about everything that would cause that.. yet it's worse. Mine even did that on the occasion, but like Aaron, just a 100rpm shift, and rare. I'm one of them tach-starer-at-ers lol I never put much thought into it.

I had noticed that after cleaning my MAF mine went all wonky for a bit, then settled out, I attributed that to the computer "re-seeing" the air flow, and don't remember seeing it past then.

Just for Sh*ts'n'Giggles, have you disco'd the battery overnight, just to dead the computer, and see if maybe it just has something "stuck" in the programming? I mean if you've cleared codes, and it's still doing it, maybe... :shrug:

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 04:23 PM
And look this is a real problem for me. When my girlfriend is coasting forward in moving traffic to come to a stop, this car throws her right at the cars. It friggin sucks!!! And i think it's safe to say its a hazard. I've taken it to several maintenance mechanics and they all come up clueless. I consider this an Internet home for my car, I'll bring my issue here

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 04:34 PM
That big of a swing in rpm, the only thing I personally have seen recreate that is when I seafoam'ed the car, with that vacuum line loose.

Especially with all the other things you've changed, vacuum sounds like a very good place to look. But trying to blank it out overnight may help.. I doubt it, but just cause it's a free try

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 04:36 PM
The dim is simply the alternator not spinning fast enough, don't get to chasing that..

You've replaced about everything that would cause that.. yet it's worse. Mine even did that on the occasion, but like Aaron, just a 100rpm shift, and rare. I'm one of them tach-starer-at-ers lol I never put much thought into it.

I had noticed that after cleaning my MAF mine went all wonky for a bit, then settled out, I attributed that to the computer "re-seeing" the air flow, and don't remember seeing it past then.

Just for Sh*ts'n'Giggles, have you disco'd the battery overnight, just to dead the computer, and see if maybe it just has something "stuck" in the programming? I mean if you've cleared codes, and it's still doing it, maybe... :shrug:

Good point I didn't think of that. With the battery though; will that really do anything compared to removing the - terminal?

GrandAmMe
11-27-2012, 04:41 PM
Definitely start off with cleaning your MAF. Takes 10 Minutes to do. I had a GASE V6 come in with the same problem and after I cleaned the MAF it evened itself out.

Just go out and buy a can of Sensor safe MAF cleaner, spray it on a Q-Tip and rub the Q-Tip on the three little metal tabs inside the MAF. Don't forget to clean both sides of the tabs. Be gentle.

Also, while you've got the MAF removed, go ahead and clean your throttle body. You dont have to remove it. Just crack the throttle open and spray some Throttle Body cleaner in there and wipe the TB down with a rag. It definitely won't hurt.

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 04:53 PM
Definitely start off with cleaning your MAF. Takes 10 Minutes to do. I had a GASE V6 come in with the same problem and after I cleaned the MAF it evened itself out.

Just go out and buy a can of Sensor safe MAF cleaner, spray it on a Q-Tip and rub the Q-Tip on the three little metal tabs inside the MAF. Don't forget to clean both sides of the tabs. Be gentle.

Also, while you've got the MAF removed, go ahead and clean your throttle body. You dont have to remove it. Just crack the throttle open and spray some Throttle Body cleaner in there and wipe the TB down with a rag. It definitely won't hurt.

Thanks for the info! I feel like i've worked around the maf and the throttle body enough to say it couldn't be the problem, although i'll do some little here there tests yet to figure this out. Maybe i have a bad connection between the maf and the connector.

Question, when i unplug my maf for testing i hear some nasty grinding sound below. Is this normal?

[ChaosweaveR]
11-27-2012, 05:08 PM
Anyway, posting a public thread can be a good way to get different perspectives and more ideas.... but looking at what this thread turned into, I guess I know why he came to me first. Way to go guys. :rolleyes:

Wait, wat

I offered fairly good advice here, especially since my pops 01 Cadillac DeVille had this same exact issue of a funky idle. How I was I supposed to know he's been PM'ing you?

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 06:37 PM
Good point I didn't think of that. With the battery though; will that really do anything compared to removing the - terminal?

Thanks for the info! I feel like i've worked around the maf and the throttle body enough to say it couldn't be the problem, although i'll do some little here there tests yet to figure this out. Maybe i have a bad connection between the maf and the connector.

Question, when i unplug my maf for testing i hear some nasty grinding sound below. Is this normal?

Just disco the neg term on the battery will break the circuit, so yea that will just clear anything in there, I really don't think it'll help.

I thought you'd cleaned that MAF, yea just taking it out and dump about half a can in it, I didn't want to touch mine, I just sat it down, propped at an angle, unloaded a bit, and more, and more.. then flipped sides, I did take a couple toothpicks to poke out bigger carbon chunks.

I don't remember anything grinding under a MAF, unless maybe, somehow ya moved your fan???? If that's grinding, the bearings could be bad in it, but make sure that is the actual noise of course

crazywinston01
11-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Just disco the neg term on the battery will break the circuit, so yea that will just clear anything in there, I really don't think it'll help.

I thought you'd cleaned that MAF, yea just taking it out and dump about half a can in it, I didn't want to touch mine, I just sat it down, propped at an angle, unloaded a bit, and more, and more.. then flipped sides, I did take a couple toothpicks to poke out bigger carbon chunks.

I don't remember anything grinding under a MAF, unless maybe, somehow ya moved your fan???? If that's grinding, the bearings could be bad in it, but make sure that is the actual noise of course

The story for my maf is... I removed the stock maf from my car, i cleaned it with alchool and a cutip and slapped the maf back in. When i drove my car it felt the slightest bit better (maybe), but it didnt stop my car from revving on its own. So then i went to autozone bought a remanufactured maf, thinking my maf was faulty. And of course did nothing...

As far as the grinding noise when maf is unplugged??? Might just post a video of that. I would really like to get to the bottom of this. This car has been trouble for too long. And i really want it running solid.

bricooper78
11-27-2012, 07:05 PM
post one up, if we can see/hear something, it may really help solve what you got going on. I generally figure if 1 person has a problem, someone else has had the same problem. Thats the best part of online, finding other people who've had the issues

AaronGTR
11-27-2012, 08:56 PM
Unplugging the computer only does two things. It clears the fuel trims (long and short term fuel adjustments the computer "learns" based on O2 sensor readings)... and it clears the transmission adaptive learn feature. Those are the only things stored in the PCM's temporary memory. I doubt either one is causing your problem, but it won't hurt anything to try clearing them. Usually all it takes is disconnecting the battery for longer than 30 minutes.


Not sure about the grinding noise, but it could be your transmission. The MAF sensor is the primary fuel adjustment sensor on the car, and it's also the first of several signals used to determine engine load. The PCM uses those to control shift pressures and speed. When you unplug the MAF, the engine is then running in "speed/density mode", where it is calculating incoming air based purely on rpm, MAP signal, and IAT, based on a pre-programmed fueling map. It does this only as a "limp mode" to make the car driveable so you can make it to a mechanic. ;) It's not meant to run without the MAF, and when it isn't present, the transmission starts acting all wacky.

DrFabulous
11-27-2012, 09:03 PM
Also my car does the same thing sometimes, but not to the same degree as his. IE mine will only drop 100 rpm below the idle speed then speed up a tiny bit before settling at idle. It doesn't rev back up over 1000 rpm.

I always just assumed it was a result of the mods I've done, and of a delay in the reaction of the IAC needing time to stabilize the idle. His car is mostly stock though, so not sure what the issue could be.




Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure my GT did the same thing... not as bad as the OPs, but noticeable. I always assumed it had to do with mods.. and my Saab started doing it just a bit after I got my tune on it too (although, I can't say for certain that it wasn't doing it before the tune).

I don't have any suggestions to do other than what others have posted already... other than just tearing all the parts off, cleaning, and reinstalling. Instead of attacking item by item, try "starting over". I had to do that when I was having issues with the Saab last year... took off everything I had touched while working on the car, reinstalled, and it just worked.

GrandAmMe
11-27-2012, 11:10 PM
Also, Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but get some intake cleaner or something of that variety and spray it around any gaskets. Basically anywhere there could be an air leak.

bricooper78
11-28-2012, 07:16 PM
^^^ yea listen to the man! I forgot all about that, when I changed the upper on my 4.3 I had a bolt that completely missed the hole, and had a BIG leak, I could hear it, and the idle was way super ****y=== we sprayed around to find it, the truck had 225K on it, it was loud, so I knew there was air, but couldn't tell where. that is a great trick to use!

+1 internets for you good sir Adam!!

plastic_indian
11-28-2012, 08:19 PM
If you have equipment that can relate live data, post what you've got (although if you're stuck with actron equipment, hopes are somewhat low).

What was the last thing worked on/repaired/hotrodded before the problem became evident?

Grinding sound while this problem is acting up? Pull the belt off - does it still happen (say, for instance, a locking up compressor is imposing an extreme load as it cycles, and the surging is just a result of IAC response time...)?

SikMindz
11-29-2012, 02:07 AM
I know it sounds odd but when I had the GA I had the same issues right before my alternator took a dump and I got it replaced. No idea why it would be related but checking voltage at your local parts store is free and would be a quick way to start.

crazywinston01
11-29-2012, 07:27 AM
I know it sounds odd but when I had the GA I had the same issues right before my alternator took a dump and I got it replaced. No idea why it would be related but checking voltage at your local parts store is free and would be a quick way to start.

I replaced the battery even though it passed good. The alternator appears good I still would like to replace it as well, just because I replaced like everything anyway :duh:

bricooper78
11-29-2012, 07:07 PM
Well, run off what Sik said--

Alt dips power, ignition doesn't get quite enough to burn the fuel in there, the computer then sees fuel, tries to burn it off???????

Aaron, what say you? that is waaaaaaaay beyond my realm, but that's kinda how I'd think that may happen?