Ac compressor delete? [Archive] - GrandAmGT.com Forum

PDA

View Full Version : Ac compressor delete?


sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Well. Lately ive been dealing with the clutch on the a/c pulley rattling and its really annoying. So debating taking out the compressor and lines so i dont have to deal with it, since i dont want to spend a stupid amount of money on a new compressor for something i havent used in 3+ years now.

My question is, anyone remove the compressor and just run a new shorter belt? If so whats the part # on that belt? How much shorter is it then stock?

I know some will "complain" persay... On this, but thats okay. Not really wanting to hear that its "pointless" and stuff. I understand some people like a/c. Me... I dont really care for it in the car.

Anyway ive searched a bit got some info, but not enough i need. Let me know! :)

TDavis
07-14-2013, 06:40 PM
Not worth it kkk

Surprised you can even hear the damn thing with your redneck exhaust n sht

geldartb
07-14-2013, 06:42 PM
already been covered and there is a how to chief..did this awhile back to my car until i could get around to fixing the compressor.


http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64639&highlight=delete

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 06:42 PM
Thanks tanner ya prick. lol

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 06:43 PM
already been covered and there is a how to chief..did this awhile back to my car until i could get around to fixing the compressor.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64639&highlight=delete

I saw that but i think its referring to the ac bypass think.. Basically what milzy sells... For 40$, i basically want that pulley gone with no pulley to replace it.

geldartb
07-14-2013, 06:47 PM
I saw that but i think its referring to the ac bypass think.. Basically what milzy sells... For 40$, i basically want that pulley gone with no pulley to replace it.

what are you talking about.. this method in the link takes one of the smooth pulleys and replaces it in the same spot with a ribbed one and then you use a shorter belt.. nothing goes where the ac compressor would be.

deleting that idler pulley probably wouldn't give the belt enough tension..

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 06:47 PM
what are you talking about.. this method in the link takes one of the smooth pulleys and replaces it in the same spot with a ribbed one and then you use a shorter belt.. nothing goes where the ac compressor would be.

Oh okay, thanks! I need to re read then...

geldartb
07-14-2013, 06:53 PM
so basically in your case take the ac compressor throw it in the trash and forget about that spot all together.. buy the ribbed pulley and belt as described in that how to and your golden..

this thing that milzy sells is designed to go in the place of the ac compressor and use the stock size belt.. i bought one off ebay years ago and wasn't really impressed with it..
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server3300/e4dh01/products/139/images/366/3400ACDelete_large__78002.1355445215.1280.1280.jpg

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 06:55 PM
Yeah im basically wanting to remove one pulley all together not have the same amount.

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 07:59 PM
Will i have freon spray out everywhere if i remove lines?

geldartb
07-14-2013, 08:35 PM
Will i have freon spray out everywhere if i remove lines?

Most likely. You should have it discharged somewhere..unless you had a leak and theres none left..try it out if it blows cold then take it somewhere. You still should take it somewhere though yiu never know whether its charged or not

geldartb
07-14-2013, 08:37 PM
Yeah im basically wanting to remove one pulley all together not have the same amount.

Well do whats it the how to then..all you do is swap the one pulley and out the new belt on and then you can leave the car in the garage..lol

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 08:40 PM
Whats the hose that runs behind the fans with the black cap on it? Kinda middle pass side area. I removed that the other day and it started hissing at me. Lol

I could just pop a line and let it seep out and be away from the area till its done. Did that on a f350 god it was bad. Lol

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 09:04 PM
Discharging ac now

Starglow
07-14-2013, 09:57 PM
Discharging ac now

Heck....I'm trying to get my AC to work and you're breaking yours on purpose.

Wanna trade...? :hay:

sleepyalero
07-14-2013, 11:08 PM
Wanna buy my shet? Lol

So far i have it discharged and the condensor out. Slowly but surely moving along. Next is the compressor and dryer then new belt and pulley and should be good.

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 05:11 AM
Well its all out, car runs great. Car seems to rev a little faster without it, definetly free'd up some room at the bottom of the engine bay. Oil filter is real easy access now!

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad58/natesalero/9AD95C5E-B195-4FA8-88C0-31FAAB0C6EAF-7779-000004765B76745A_zpse68cae0a.jpg
http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad58/natesalero/1F37156A-AEA0-4BCF-A32E-F880AF88D4CC-7779-0000047662E04040_zps5a1ba949.jpg

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 05:33 AM
Edit: nevermind.

AleroB888
07-15-2013, 06:48 AM
.... Oil filter is real easy access now! ....

Yeah, when the splash guard is off.... haha

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 12:34 PM
Yeah thats only 2 bolts

HenryM
07-15-2013, 02:41 PM
Because of the belt routing configuration, you can't just eliminate the compressor, Napa sells a pulley/bracket bypass for the 3.4 V6 for about $50.00 part number is 660-1853. Any Napa should be able to help you out.

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 02:51 PM
Because of the belt routing configuration, you can't just eliminate the compressor, Napa sells a pulley/bracket bypass for the 3.4 V6 for about $50.00 part number is 660-1853. Any Napa should be able to help you out.

Uhhh actually you can... The compressor pulley is gone and there is nothing in place of it. Im running a shorter belt and a different lower idler pulley so it does work. Maybe you should read through the how to thats linked on page 1. :sikmindz:

geldartb
07-15-2013, 02:57 PM
Well its all out, car runs great. Car seems to rev a little faster without it,
unless your pulley on the compressor was starting to seize it should have had no effect when the ac was off because it's basically and idler pulley when the ac is off.
Because of the belt routing configuration, you can't just eliminate the compressor, Napa sells a pulley/bracket bypass for the 3.4 V6 for about $50.00 part number is 660-1853. Any Napa should be able to help you out.
already went through this and read the how to i posted on the previous page..

replace a smooth pulley with a ribbed one and buy a shorter belt and your good to go. if the compressor seized up on the road you could eliminate it belt routing wise and be on your way in like 15 minutes while still leaving the compressor on the car.

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 03:01 PM
Maybe so, guess im just stupid. lol

geldartb
07-15-2013, 03:25 PM
Maybe so, guess im just stupid. lol

about what did i miss something..

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 03:42 PM
The "faster rev"

geldartb
07-15-2013, 04:14 PM
how freely did the pulley on the compressor spin. like if you spin it by hand does it have massive drag,

sleepyalero
07-15-2013, 04:44 PM
Has a small drag. Not much but not as free as others

HenryM
07-16-2013, 12:44 PM
Uhhh actually you can... The compressor pulley is gone and there is nothing in place of it. Im running a shorter belt and a different lower idler pulley so it does work. Maybe you should read through the how to thats linked on page 1. :sikmindz:

Thats all well and good if you want to BUY a shorter belt AND a pulley, which will run about $60 versus $40-50 if you don't buy the cheap crap. And thanks,,,did read it. But whatever....
:applause:

sleepyalero
07-16-2013, 02:29 PM
Thats all well and good if you want to BUY a shorter belt AND a pulley, which will run about $60 versus $40-50 if you don't buy the cheap crap. And thanks,,,did read it. But whatever....
:applause:

Dude the new belt and pulley cost me 37$ after tax at autozone... lol pretty cheap.

sleepyalero
07-17-2013, 11:19 AM
Well the 40$ bypass is cheaper because they go out in a month.

The_Maniac
08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
Thats all well and good if you want to BUY a shorter belt AND a pulley, which will run about $60 versus $40-50 if you don't buy the cheap crap. And thanks,,,did read it. But whatever....
:applause:

I just read up on doing the pulley sway and belt change last night. I can get the belt (Goodyear Gatorback belt at that) and pulley via RockAuto shipped to my door for $30. That's almost the cost of an original length belt bought at a local parts store!

I'm very tempted to do this on my Grand Am since it's my "winter beater", the A/C has not worked since I bought it nor do I have interest in fixing it and I don't know the age of the current belt.

Plus, if these compressors are like what I've seen with the 3100's, it's only matter of time until the compressor makes that "rattling" noise mentioned earlier.

sleepyalero
08-05-2013, 02:39 PM
I just read up on doing the pulley sway and belt change last night. I can get the belt (Goodyear Gatorback belt at that) and pulley via RockAuto shipped to my door for $30. That's almost the cost of an original length belt bought at a local parts store!

I'm very tempted to do this on my Grand Am since it's my "winter beater", the A/C has not worked since I bought it nor do I have interest in fixing it and I don't know the age of the current belt.

Plus, if these compressors are like what I've seen with the 3100's, it's only matter of time until the compressor makes that "rattling" noise mentioned earlier.

Pretty simple you get a smaller belt and an idler pulley from a beretta and boom all is good and you have one less pulley

H.O. Driver
08-22-2013, 09:35 AM
Because of the belt routing configuration, you can't just eliminate the compressor, Napa sells a pulley/bracket bypass for the 3.4 V6 for about $50.00 part number is 660-1853. Any Napa should be able to help you out.

I just saw this thread, I am glad the How-To is still helping people. The reason why I did the how-to is becuase I had originally bought the pully/bracket bypass only to only take it all apart to find out that the bolt holes on the bracket didn't line up with the bolt holes on the block. I wasn't about to drill/notch the thin walled alluminum bracket to make it work. I returned the part, got the belt and pulley I needed to re-route the belt and some cash back.

It was frustrating so I figured I would help others not go through the troubles I had. I bought the bracket in Gaylord, MI, tried to install it in Grand Rapids, MI. Returned it and got the other parks in Mt Clements, MI and then finished it in Alanson, MI once I got home. That was a fun three days, lol.

sleepyalero
08-22-2013, 11:04 AM
Appreciate the how to, i got rid of something i dont use and have one less pulley in the system.

geldartb
08-22-2013, 11:13 AM
that was the problem I ran into.. even with the compressor the bottom bolt hole didnt line up and neither did the bypass setup.. they must have changed something later in the years.. my engine is an 05

Starglow
08-22-2013, 11:22 AM
that was the problem I ran into.. even with the compressor the bottom bolt hole didnt line up and neither did the bypass setup.. they must have changed something later in the years.. my engine is an 05

The spacer used on the top two compressor bolts makes the difference between the bottom bolt lining up or not lining up. There are two different size spacers.

The_Maniac
08-22-2013, 11:17 PM
I finally did this little mod last Saturday. Took about 30 minutes to do, no issues, piece of cake. I still have the compressor and intend to remove it at a later date.

The Butt-Dyno does not notice any change in performance (and honestly, I did not expect a performance change). I went into this because I needed a new belt, I don't intend to fix the AC, so for how little this mod costs, made perfect sense. Because I wanted a GatorBack belt, it ran me $40 (otherwise, I coulda done it for $30).

Great write up. Thanks for sharing this info!

sleepyalero
08-22-2013, 11:28 PM
I finally did this little mod last Saturday. Took about 30 minutes to do, no issues, piece of cake. I still have the compressor and intend to remove it at a later date.

The Butt-Dyno does not notice any change in performance (and honestly, I did not expect a performance change). I went into this because I needed a new belt, I don't intend to fix the AC, so for how little this mod costs, made perfect sense. Because I wanted a GatorBack belt, it ran me $40 (otherwise, I coulda done it for $30).

Great write up. Thanks for sharing this info!

Dyno might not show performance, yet it may give LITTLE performance thats not really noticable. Also if you remove everything like me, lines and all, it adds up to like 40lbs in weight.

Me i believe it gave me some benefit, my friend has an h23 swap from japan in his prelude.

Results in races were..

Me with no ac delete him with swap and no tune yet, i won.

Next he got a tune, i still had not removed ac, he won.

I removed ac, he has h23 swap with tune, i won.

Seems the ac delete helped me out a bit.

Starglow
08-23-2013, 06:09 AM
I like to have AC...especially on a hot muggy day. I just replaced the compressor, accumulator, and orifice tube. The AC blows nice cold air again and cost to fix was less than $200.

sleepyalero
08-23-2013, 06:14 AM
I dont mind not having it, never used it.

The_Maniac
08-23-2013, 07:47 AM
Dyno might not show performance, yet it may give LITTLE performance thats not really noticable. Also if you remove everything like me, lines and all, it adds up to like 40lbs in weight.

I'll nibble that there may be a small performance gain. I'm just saying the gain is not big enough for me to notice it. Plus, as you said, I am hauling an extra 20-40lbs with the A/C crap still there. Weight reduction does mean a little something.

For those who have broken A/C and don't plan to fix it, I feel this is a GREAT mod! The compressor will eventually begin making awful noises as it ages and this avoids you having to put up with that. Looking at it, I think if a belt is made the right length, you could also get rid of the pulley between the alt and the power steering pump.....

AaronGTR
08-23-2013, 08:25 AM
I'll nibble that there may be a small performance gain. I'm just saying the gain is not big enough for me to notice it. Plus, as you said, I am hauling an extra 20-40lbs with the A/C crap still there. Weight reduction does mean a little something.

For those who have broken A/C and don't plan to fix it, I feel this is a GREAT mod! The compressor will eventually begin making awful noises as it ages and this avoids you having to put up with that. Looking at it, I think if a belt is made the right length, you could also get rid of the pulley between the alt and the power steering pump.....



There won't be any measurable performance gain on the dyno. When at WOT the compressor isn't engaged and it's just free spinning the pulley. Any weight difference between that pulley and an A/C bypass pulley would be small and not enough to register a HP increase. There might be a performance increase on the road from removing the system for weight savings, but again it's going to be very small and not noticeable for most people. Even on the drag strip. You only gain a tenth of a second for every 100 lbs removed. Basically unless you are racing all the time, there isn't any point.

I wouldn't recommend trying to remove the idler pulley between the alternator and the P/S pump either. It's a bad idea. That pulley is there to change the angle of the belt and make it wrap around those pulleys. If you remove it, less of the belt will make contact with the pulley and you could have belt slip issues.

sleepyalero
08-23-2013, 08:31 AM
I agree on the secondary idler, dont remove it.


You could delete the powersteering if you want ;)

TruGreenGAGT
08-23-2013, 09:07 AM
You could delete the powersteering if you want ;)

Sleepys next mod?

who needs powersteering anyways....think of all the weight that will be removed from that one

sleepyalero
08-23-2013, 09:27 AM
No way ive driven the car before without ps. It sucks ass.

Back when i first got her i cut the wheel all the way one way and did a reverse donut, blew out the pump and was spraying fluid everywhere.

Thats about the most abuse ive ever done to the car. After that i stopped messing around with the car in that way. And actually started taking care of it. I took care of it when i first got it but not as much as i do now. lol

TruGreenGAGT
08-23-2013, 09:59 AM
it goes straighter though... better for the strip lol

geldartb
08-23-2013, 10:06 AM
You could delete the powersteering if you want ;)

I thought about doing that but what woukd you use a rack from.. did 5th gens even come without power steering

sleepyalero
08-23-2013, 10:19 AM
Haha no Jim!

And i believe the berettas came with out ps. But doubt that would work with our cars.

The_Maniac
08-23-2013, 01:10 PM
There won't be any measurable performance gain on the dyno.

I feel like everyone is missing my original statements....

The Butt-Dyno does not notice any change in performance (and honestly, I did not expect a performance change).

I'll nibble that there may be a small performance gain. I'm just saying the gain is not big enough for me to notice it. Plus, as you said, I am hauling an extra 20-40lbs with the A/C crap still there. Weight reduction does mean a little something.

I did not expect to notice a performance change doing this. This mod did not change pulley sizes or the speed the crank spins, so any gain would be simply from less drag off an additional pulley (which is going to be next to nothing). You would notice more gain, if any, from a weight reduction from gutting the A/C stuff that is not being used anymore. But again, minimal.


I wouldn't recommend trying to remove the idler pulley between the alternator and the P/S pump either. It's a bad idea. That pulley is there to change the angle of the belt and make it wrap around those pulleys. If you remove it, less of the belt will make contact with the pulley and you could have belt slip issues.

I don't see how that extra pulley makes that much of a difference in changing the angle. Look at a 3100, which the 3400 is based off and they share a very similiar layout. It does not have two extra pulleys just to hold the belt. All the accessories between a 3100 and 3400 are in the same spots, just a N-body 3400 has the tentioner facing a different direction then the 3100.
I've worked on a bunch of 3100 and 3400 engines and I honestly have no idea why GM added the extra two pulleys to the 3400 and changed the belt routing. It looks like a 3100 routing would have made more sense.

Below are pics showing the two.

Grand Am 3100
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31441&stc=1&d=1377280876

Grand Am 3400
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31442&stc=1&d=1377280876

Starglow
08-23-2013, 04:09 PM
Sleepys next mod?

who needs powersteering anyways....think of all the weight that will be removed from that one

The steering rack wouldn't last a month without the power steering pump.

AaronGTR
08-24-2013, 12:33 AM
I don't see how that extra pulley makes that much of a difference in changing the angle. Look at a 3100, which the 3400 is based off and they share a very similiar layout. It does not have two extra pulleys just to hold the belt. All the accessories between a 3100 and 3400 are in the same spots, just a N-body 3400 has the tentioner facing a different direction then the 3100.
I've worked on a bunch of 3100 and 3400 engines and I honestly have no idea why GM added the extra two pulleys to the 3400 and changed the belt routing. It looks like a 3100 routing would have made more sense.

Below are pics showing the two.

Grand Am 3100
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31441&stc=1&d=1377280876

Grand Am 3400
http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31442&stc=1&d=1377280876

You see no reason why they added extra pulleys... yet GM saw fit to change it. I guess you know more than the engineers who designed it then?

I can see exactly why they did it. More belt contact on the crank pulley by adding the lower idler. That made changing the belt tensioner necessary, which makes adding the upper idler necessary to maintain the same belt contact on the alt pulley. It also doubles the contact on the P/S pump pulley which is important. I've had belt tension issues before, and when you turn and place a load on the pump it can make the belt slip. Terrible squealing noise and heavy steering, and sometimes bogs the engine too.

The_Maniac
08-24-2013, 08:19 AM
You see no reason why they added extra pulleys... yet GM saw fit to change it. I guess you know more than the engineers who designed it then?

I can see exactly why they did it. More belt contact on the crank pulley by adding the lower idler.

First, I am not saying I know more then GM engineers. Yes, because they did something, they had a reason. Does it always mean their logic was right, not always (hence TSBs and recalls).

Second, I worked on a lot of 3100s in n-bodies. Never had I heard or seen issues requiring additional contact with the crank or p/s pulley. I've never ran into belt slipping or noise as a result.
I just compared the belt diagrams in the shop book for a 3100 in a '97 Skylark to that of a 3400 in my wife's '05 Impala. What I found was that they appear to have the same amount of contact on the crank and P/S pulleys. There routing is near, if not, identical.
When I did the A/C delete mod on my '02 Grand Am, I compared the belt routing on my wife's '05 Impala, I was curious if they were the same or different (since the n-body has a side motor mount and the w-body does not). They are in fact different and the Impala does NOT have the two additional pulleys for belt routing. If contact to the crank and P/S pulley was so critical, I would thing the Impala would share a similar or identical routing as my Grand Am.
That being said, I again don't see why the routing in a n-body 3400 had to change.

Third, perhaps things don't come across properly in text form. I'm trying to contribute in a friendly discussion, but most, if not all responses you give me sounds like your becoming more and more of a "jerk". Comments like "I guess you know more than the engineers who designed it then?", is that really needed? Could you just explain a point without trying to come off as a "jerk"?

AaronGTR
08-24-2013, 09:14 AM
sorry if I think people trying to eliminate pulleys and A/C systems is retarded because they work perfectly fine they way they are and there is nothing to gain from doing it. :rolleyes:

I'll go back to being sunshine and bunnies.

The_Maniac
08-24-2013, 03:06 PM
I never said I was doing this because I expected a performance gain. I cracked the joke that the "butt-dyno" did not notice any improvement, which is what I expected anyways.

My experience is that if you are not using your A/C because it does not work, eventually the clutch assembly on the compressor begins making horrible grinding noises, I've had this happen on about 3 different cars with 3100 and 3400 engine that I've owned and the A/C never got used on (as it did not work when I bought them).
Also, I don't know anyone personally, but I've read about some people that claim the compressor pulley seizing or dragging (hence why companies make a pulley to put in place of the compressor).

As I said, I don't intend to fix the A/C on my Grand Am (it's used primarily as a "winter beater"). Under that mind set, if I have to change the belt anyways (because it's looking a bit old and worn), from my point of view, since my compressor is never going to be used again it made perfect sense to do this mod to remove it from the belt drive, thus reducing a chance of a potential future problem resulting from the compressor. From what I found, this mod has zero negative side effects if you don't need/want the A/C to work.

It's a great mod for that reason. The only other reason is if someone is truly using the car for hard core racing and really needs to push every chance to drop weight (again, very extreme need).