Brake pads

[Kodeblue]

I am going to be changing my brakes and rotors. Is there a difference between regular pads and performance pads? What is the main difference if there is any?

[Mike Jung]

Sorry *offtopic*:

But don't forget to change your brake fluid also since you are doing a brake job.

[koolZ71]

Originally posted by silverbullet00
I am going to be changing my brakes and rotors. Is there a difference between regular pads and performance pads? What is the main difference if there is any?

well when i was buying my prefromance friction brake pads at autozone they had a braking chart showed u how long it took certain brands of breaks to stop...well the preformance pads stoped alot quicker than oem, and the autozone pads were a lil better than oem...what was funny was the napa brands pads were shown to be almost twice as bad as oem

[Kodeblue]

What about the life of these performance pads? I am told they wear alot faster.

[koolZ71]

Originally posted by silverbullet00
What about the life of these performance pads? I am told they wear alot faster.

i have not heard that but i know they will wear faster along with anyother pad if u have slotted or crossdrilled rotors

[Kodeblue]

So what is a better set of pads that you would recommend?

[Craig99SE2]

Originally posted by Mike Jung
Sorry *offtopic*:

But don't forget to change your brake fluid also since you are doing a brake job.

Why would you change fluid if you are just replacing pads? If the pedal feels spongy ... maybe, but other than that ... no reason! And as far as brake fluid goes, I'd suggest unless you have a QUALITY bleeder (not a Pep Boys special), take it to a dealership! If you want a good bleeder to DIY, take a look at the one at PFYC.com.

Performance Pads are usually a "harder compound" which makes them hold better when hot. Some of them use ceramic, kevlar, etc. The rule of thumb, from my experience, is when it comes to brake pads ... you get what you pay for! My $80/set EBC Green Stuff pads stop on a dime and leave very little dust compared to stock, and Performance Friction pads.

[Chaotic Reality]

What's the advantage of cross drilled/slotted rotors if brake pads wear faster on them? :confused:

-Jon

[Kodeblue]

Cross drilled tend to crack so I dont think they are that great.

[Kodeblue]

Craig99SE2, do they last as long as regular pads?

[GrafxWerks]

Based on the fact that you are referencing "regular" and "performance", I'm guessing you're planning on buying pads at Canadian Tire?

Well, I advice against them for the fronts. Rears, whatever, but fronts, get something decent (ie: Perf Friction). Well worth the extra $. I ran Crappy Tire "premium" pads on the front of my Sunfire GT and was never happy with braking performance... and the dust was awful. Stay away from their rotors too, they rust worse than sock.


- Ryan

[Craig99SE2]

Originally posted by silverbullet00
Craig99SE2, do they last as long as regular pads?

I wouldn't say they wear any quicker. Brake pad wear is dependent on too many variables to even make a comparison! I know people that have the same pads for 70K miles! The way I drive ... 20K if I'm lucky! :D

I do think they last a *little* longer than stock considering they are a harder compound.

[SilverGA2001]

The Performance Frictions I have with my Powerslot rotors stop a lot harder, but they don't work well until they warm up a little. Also the dust is pretty bad. Their wear is nothing great, as in I have to replace mine and I'm just under 5,000 miles on this set, but I'm running slotted rotors, so that makes some difference. I drive and brake like a maniac, but I got the PF pads because Autozone has a life time warranty for them, meaning when I wear a set out I take them back and they hand me a new set. So I tend to be pretty rough on them. I'd like to have gotten the EBC Green Stuff's that Craig mentioned, but they were twice the price I paid for my PF's and the warranty was too good to pass up. I'll suffer the dust problems for free pads.

As far as rotors, someone mentioned them. I run Powerslots with the PF pads. Nice braking. However, most don't need slotted or cross drilled rotors. Mine mostly look better then other rotors. Get a good set of Brembo replacement rotors and you'll be all set. The Powerslots (which are Brembo's before their cut, IIRC), are a great rotor that resists warping and looks very cool to boot. Their especially hard on pads though.

[Brad]

Ditto what Matt said about the Perf. Friction. Can't beat the guarantee. Ditto too on the rotor recommendation. Not from personal experience, but from others recommending them. I might recommend that if you are low on cash and need to replace rotors that you might look into the NAPA replacement rotors. I got a set when I was tight on cash and along with the Performance Friction pads, I am very happy with them. No warpage problems so far and they work well. Obviously not as well as Matt's Power Slots, but if the check book balance is low, I'd look into the NAPA rotors.
Good luck!
Brad

[Kodeblue]

Thanks for all the great input. When it comes to the brake system, I am not afraid to spend the cash. I am planning on powerslot but I might also go to the brembo site and check out those rotors. As far as the pads go, I might try the EBS green stuff.

[Xride]

Originally posted by Chaotic Reality
What's the advantage of cross drilled/slotted rotors if brake pads wear faster on them? :confused:

-Jon

the cross drilled does nothing to help stopping, if anything it hurts stopping power as there is less pad on rotor surface. the slotted ones go through the pads faster cause they kinda shave the pad a little, this does help keep the pads glaze free.
Green stuff are good pads, anything thats a ceramic compound will be the best stopping power, they also create more dust though (the dust is accually the mettal dust from off your rotors and pads, so clean it off regularly, as it can pit the wheels). If you want the best stopping go and get the baer 13" big brake upgrade wiht two piston calapers, hmm will the 13" clear a stock wheel? even an after market 17"?
two things on your car that you should never cheap out on are the brakes and tires.

[SilverGA2001]

Originally posted by Xride
the cross drilled does nothing to help stopping, if anything it hurts stopping power as there is less pad on rotor surface. the slotted ones go through the pads faster cause they kinda shave the pad a little, this does help keep the pads glaze free.
Green stuff are good pads, anything thats a ceramic compound will be the best stopping power, they also create more dust though (the dust is accually the mettal dust from off your rotors and pads, so clean it off regularly, as it can pit the wheels). If you want the best stopping go and get the baer 13" big brake upgrade wiht two piston calapers, hmm will the 13" clear a stock wheel? even an after market 17"?
two things on your car that you should never cheap out on are the brakes and tires.

PFYC says you need 17"s for the Baer upgrade system, which is priced at $1285 I think.

[koolZ71]

Originally posted by Xride
the cross drilled does nothing to help stopping, if anything it hurts stopping power as there is less pad on rotor surface. the slotted ones go through the pads faster cause they kinda shave the pad a little, this does help keep the pads glaze free.
Green stuff are good pads, anything thats a ceramic compound will be the best stopping power, they also create more dust though (the dust is accually the mettal dust from off your rotors and pads, so clean it off regularly, as it can pit the wheels). If you want the best stopping go and get the baer 13" big brake upgrade wiht two piston calapers, hmm will the 13" clear a stock wheel? even an after market 17"?
two things on your car that you should never cheap out on are the brakes and tires.

i gotta agree to a point here....the price for baer brake and powerslots arent worth it...ur never gonna go fast enough for them to really pay off, regular rotors, and performance pads do just fine without wasting money..but u can over pay on breaks if u go all out safety is worth it, but u can get the same safety for half the price with just autozone stuff

[Mike Jung]

Originally posted by Craig99SE2
Why would you change fluid if you are just replacing pads? If the pedal feels spongy ... maybe, but other than that ... no reason! And as far as brake fluid goes, I'd suggest unless you have a QUALITY bleeder (not a Pep Boys special), take it to a dealership! If you want a good bleeder to DIY, take a look at the one at PFYC.com...
Ok :confused:

I thought I would just mention it (not that I know much about cars :blushing: ).

In a cheap Haynes manual, it mentions to change it every 30K miles/18.6K km or 24-months.

A dealer recommended changing it every 75K km/46.6K miles or 45-months.

A TV auto show recommend it to be changed about every 2-years.
Something about the brake line system at the molecular level still lets moisture in.
And that the cars these days with the ABS braking systems would benefit from changing the brake fluid frequently (to prevent something in the brake system from needing servicing to often).
So for the average driver, they sugguested that they change the brake fluid at every brake job.


Just call me :stupid: :blushing:

[Xride]

Originally posted by SilverGA2001
PFYC says you need 17"s for the Baer upgrade system, which is priced at $1285 I think.

really? the 13" dual piston calaper 1.10" thick (i think) is only 700 for the f body.

and to think that baer is no good cause you wont go fast enough to use it, ummm your kidding right? how often do you travel 60 mph? hell even 30, or 20?
popular hotrod did a conversion on a f body once, or maybe it was a mustang??, but anyways from 60 wiht new OEM equipment it was 130 feet, and after the baer dual piston it was down to jsut under 100 feet. about 24% improvment, that means from 30 if it took 65 fett it would only take about 50 with the baer. now think, when someone hits a child or any pedestrian its at the very end of the breaking period for the most part (I've seen two pedestrain hits where it was in the last 5 or so feet from being completely stopped) now jsut think if you could have has the extra 24%, you would not have hit them.
to say that you will NEVER go fast enough to use them is just ignorant... no no, thats just stupid.

[koolZ71]

Originally posted by Xride
really? the 13" dual piston calaper 1.10" thick (i think) is only 700 for the f body.

and to think that baer is no good cause you wont go fast enough to use it, ummm your kidding right? how often do you travel 60 mph? hell even 30, or 20?
popular hotrod did a conversion on a f body once, or maybe it was a mustang??, but anyways from 60 wiht new OEM equipment it was 130 feet, and after the baer dual piston it was down to jsut under 100 feet. about 24% improvment, that means from 30 if it took 65 fett it would only take about 50 with the baer. now think, when someone hits a child or any pedestrian its at the very end of the breaking period for the most part (I've seen two pedestrain hits where it was in the last 5 or so feet from being completely stopped) now jsut think if you could have has the extra 24%, you would not have hit them.
to say that you will NEVER go fast enough to use them is just ignorant... no no, thats just stupid.

no im not saying that...brakes are brakes...but spending an outragous amount on rotors to stop 50 feet quicker isnt very cost effective in my book....i mean to get the full effect outta baer breaks u gotta be hitting over at least 90 or so..if u know what i mean?

[Xride]

Originally posted by Mike Jung

In a cheap Haynes manual, it mentions to change it every 30K miles/18.6K km or 24-months.

damn that is a cheap one, us using the metric system can only a 1/3 of what the people using imperial.

all kidding aside, brake fluid absorbs moister if I remember corectly, and I cant remember how to tell if its absorbed lots or not.
and the haynes also says you should be greasing the chasis every other oil change :rolleyes:

[Xride]

Originally posted by koolgt
no im not saying that...brakes are brakes...but spending an outragous amount on rotors to stop 50 feet quicker isnt very cost effective in my book....i mean to get the full effect outta baer breaks u gotta be hitting over at least 90 or so..if u know what i mean?

well actually, I dont get what you mean??? I really dont.
also keep in mind that they will alst longer (so long as you stay out of the drilled ones cause they can crack and only look good) and they dissapate heat faster (look at the vents), that means warpage is almost unheard of.

[koolZ71]

Originally posted by Xride
well actually, I dont get what you mean??? I really dont.
also keep in mind that they will alst longer (so long as you stay out of the drilled ones cause they can crack and only look good) and they dissapate heat faster (look at the vents), that means warpage is almost unheard of.


my autzone rotors havent warped yet and i got 20k miles on em so far..and my everyday braking isnt gonna create the kinda heat needed to want me to go for anything that expensive, if so they would have put them on at the factory..kinda like the wrx STI they come stock with brembo cause ur gonna be breaking like **** cause there more of an autocross...to me personally autozone specials suit me just fine:):thumbs:

[Craig99SE2]

Originally posted by Mike Jung
Ok :confused:

I thought I would just mention it (not that I know much about cars :blushing: ).

In a cheap Haynes manual, it mentions to change it every 30K miles/18.6K km or 24-months.

A dealer recommended changing it every 75K km/46.6K miles or 45-months.

A TV auto show recommend it to be changed about every 2-years.
Something about the brake line system at the molecular level still lets moisture in.
And that the cars these days with the ABS braking systems would benefit from changing the brake fluid frequently (to prevent something in the brake system from needing servicing to often).
So for the average driver, they sugguested that they change the brake fluid at every brake job.


Just call me :stupid: :blushing:

Yes, moisture does get in over time. But 30K is pretty excessive IMHO. I'd tend to side more with the dealer for a daily driver. Now if I was autocrossing or racing the car, I'd prolly change it every 6 months! It all depends on your climate, driving style, etc.

But if the pedal is spongy ... when in doubt, flush it out!

[SilverGA2001]

I agree with Xride here. I think my Powerslots have been worth the cost. It's virtually impossible for me to glaze pads now, something that I'd done with every single set of pads til that point. I drive everyday like I'm running from the police. I wore out 3 sets of rotors and pads on my old car, and I only had it for 30,000 miles. I went through 2 sets of OEM rotors and pads on my GAGT by the time I hit 20,000 miles. Now I am eating the PF pads at an extremely alarming rate, but it's well worth the stopping power. My brakes seem to handle heat so much better then before. When I was done driving before, you couldn't touch my caliper because it was too damn hot. Now you have no trouble putting your hand on it. Heat disipation is dramatically improved. Why spend more money on brakes to stop 50 feet quicker??? Because that 50 feet could make or break your car and your life!

The story on brake fluid... Mfuller gave me an excellent run down one time. Basically the higher the DOT number, the quicker it absorbs water. GA's come with DOT 3, which is pretty standard. I'll be upgrading to DOT 4, which can handle heat better, but will absorb water faster, meaning I'll have to flush the system more often. DOT 5.1 is for racing applications pretty much. Handles heat the best, but doesn't last as long as it absorbs water the quickest.

Like I said, I plan on getting DOT 4 when I get my steel braided brake lines. The fluid should get rid of any fade I have left because it can handle the heat that I put on my system. I'll most certainly post an update on that though. :thumbs:

Edit: Here's the link to Mfuller's excellent posts on brake fluid subjects.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5087&highlight=Brake+Fluid

[iceman]

Bump.. I was looking for some brake pad info and this is a pretty good thread :)

[VaGT]

Originally posted by SilverGA2001
I'd like to have gotten the EBC Green Stuff's that Craig mentioned, but they were twice the price I paid for my PF's and the warranty was too good to pass up. I'll suffer the dust problems for free pads.



I had EBC's with Brembo's and after warping them twice in 2500 miles, I went with PF pads and Powerslots.

I'll say this...

The EBC claim that they are low dust is a fraud. They were at least twice as dusty with the plain faced rotors as the PF are with the slotted. VERY noticable difference.



Also - Powerslot does not buy Brembo Rotors and throw slots on them like many hear think. They are cast in the USA AFAIK, and nothing Brembo makes is cast in the USA. They are either made in Italy or Mexico.