I have a modded 00GTP and it doesn't have these issues with the 3.8L, but my wife has a 99 GA GT and I noticed the leaks last week. I just picked up the new gasket kits and bolts and I will be fixing this myself this weekend. Hopefully the new design gaskets fix this problem. If it leaks again on the new design, I'll fix it and we'll be selling the car. This is not acceptable.

69,000 on a 99GAGT. currently sitting at the dealership with LIM leak and a bad water pump, waiting for the Pontiac Customer Service people to talk to the shop for me to get a discount since i kept complaining that it happens to everyone and being told off by the shop.

Mine is leaking very slow. It has been for a while, but I recently noticed.

My 99 v6 se started showing very small leakage around 60,000 km's. Noticed oil on the side of the block, and I had the cursed goo on the top of my coolant filler cap. Had it done under warranty.

what %
 

seriously, you have to wonder about how high the number can get before they either fix it proper, oir recall the damned thing?? yes, i KNOW that wont happen, and i know its been said before... but now (like everyone has felt) its happening to Me ugh... sorry, rant over
:soapbox

99 gt - 73000 miles. been leaking 3-4 months. oil on the manifold too. will be tearing her apart next week - finally on vacation and cleaned the garage LOL

part numbers
 

which reminds me, where can we find the updated gaskets?? anyone been brave enough to have a machine shop fab one up??

thanks!!

Mine is kinda wierd. It has been leaking for long time, but my engine oil is fine. Coolent in the tank is fine too(looks red). My car is about 2 1/2 years old and I have added coolent only TWICE ever since I got this car new. I haven't got low coolent light either. Maybe it stopped leaking?

My coolant is leaking too. Must be slow cause my coolant light only came on once.

I got a 95 grand am gt. The gasket went at about 90,000 miles. But I got the car with 80k so who knows if it happened before. Everyone keeps talkn about how "great" the new 3400 motors are, but the new dexcool antifreeze that GM insists on using causes their gaskets to dissolve at an unprecedented rate. Its becoming difficult to stay loyal to GM.

has nothing to do with dexcool. it was the intake gasket design.

The 3400 is a very good motor, it is the head gaskets that suck. There is a new design head gasket that is finally better. :)

i thought it was the lim gasket that was redesigned...u sure on the the head gasket thing.

I think that was also. Both gaskets are problems.

In defense of the head gasket, it doesn't leak nearly as much as possible when mating iron block to aluminum heads. There is no defense for the LIM gasket it was simply a poor decision by GM's engineers to allow it especially when switching from 6 to 3 bolt. As to the reference of the "great" 3400 above by Nomad345; most of us on here with 3400's applaud the decision to move to the 3.5L V6 in the G6 and then the 3.9L in the potential G6 GTP.

i have a 99 GT 3.4 and yes at 60 thousand mine was replaced,but it was leaking at 50 thousand alittle i just waited until my coolant light came on then had it replaced

98 malibu 3100 34K & 115K
2002 GAGT 88K

had lim replaced about a week ago on my 01 gagt coupe with about 49,000 (i love extended warranties)

Just found out I had it! Dealer fixed under warranty.

Well, crap I guess it was my turn. I'm at 38,000 miles and it is being replaced under my extended warranty. Those things sure are a MUST with our freakin' cars!! God bless GM! :rolleyes:

My turn also
 

When I dropped mine off...I had a whole array of lights :)

SES, SVS, Trac Off, ABS, Low Coolant

Low Coolant were due to the external coolant leak I started having at about 65,000 miles. Watched it up till 70,000 miles before I took it in. I just watched the oil and coolant like a hawk to make sure it remained an external leak only. $848 quoted repair cost normally. Had dealer call GM, got GM to accept payment of $150. (which is a typical deductible or something the dealer said if I actually had a certain warranty - which I do not have).

Trac Off, ABS and SVS I am sure is a wheel speed sensor/Hub assy...just need to get the code read. I HATE that you cannot get ABS codes read with a standard scanner that Autozone, etc uses. Damn $$$$ just to have a code read for something you can end up fixing yourself.

Then the fun one that just started - SES. Air Intake temp. sensor checked out good but wiring has a short somewhere back to the computer. Engine thinks that it is -38 degrees C outside and has adjusted trans. pressures accordingly. You can only imagine the engine torque applied during trans shifts. I thought my engine would rock off the mounts.

I've had leaky intake gasket within first year. about 9 months later I had a bad head gasket, causing coolant to mix with oil. wheel hub replaced, and steering rack replaced. Word to the wise: GET THE EXTENDED WARRENTY, it's worth it for a brand new vehicle to have warrenty for as long as you are still making payments.

14000 fixed under warranty

I keep hearing all this 700, 800, or around 900 dollar quote for this job. Let me break it down what it "would have" costed me if I hadn't have had an exteneded warranty from one of the main Pontiac dealerships in Kansas who appreciates repeat business like me, hehe.

Labor: $427.00
Gasket Kit: 54.21
2 Gaskets: 31.54
Seal: 2.00
Adhesive: 11.25
Dex-Coolant: 12.75
For a TOTAL of "only": $539.05!!! :boogie:

I'm confused why people are paying almost 900 dollars at times :rolleyes: I just wanted to post this as a heads up, so ppl can maybe arugue alittle on there cost, if they actually have to py for most of it. I also cought mine EXTREMELY early. No mixing with oil or whatever some ppl get. I never even got a low coolant light. I just noticed a little spot that I didn't think was there before on the concrete, and had it checked out during my oil change that happened to be due at the same time! Anyways, peace!

Response To Costs
 

I did not ask for a breakdown of costs, but I have heard the 700-900 dollar price rattled off a lot here. This was confirmed when I was quoted $844 to fix my leak. This was before I had them call General Motors and get some assistance. In my case, they ended up paying for all but $150 on my 2001 Grand Am GT, even with 71,000 miles on it. While I am not ok with how GM has handled this problem generally in the field, I am ok with paying this amount.

So, I guess what I am saying is that the $800 value is accurate in many areas.
Actually, I am a little worried about the person taking so little time in your labor estimate to tear down the manifolds that much, clean them, install new gaskets, replace everything and refill with any lost coolant. Seems a little quick, unless the labor rates where you are, are much lower???? Here it is $65-$85 an hour.

2001 SE
93,000 KM

Bought car at 82,000KM

83,000 KM - Replaced front brake rotors and pads
86,000 KM - Replaced intake gasket (Under warrenty..whew!)
91,000 KM - Replaced blower relay

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but maybe a gearhead could agree with/correct me on this. I heard that one major contribuiting factor to the leaking issue with the 3400 lower intake gasket is due to the use of dexcool. I heard that dexcool has a component in it that is corrosive to the gasket, and exposure results in a weakened gasket that will leak. Mine has already been replaced and it's leaking again. I use the GM recomended 100,000 mile Dexcool. What do you guys think?

See the article I posted in the thread Engine Coolant/Anti-Freeze: Zerex G-05 ?

I am considering using Zerex G-05 engine coolant/anti-freeze next time I get the Dexcool coolant flushed & changed.

Here is that article:

Coolant Confusion: It's Not Easy Being Green... or Yellow or Orange or...

In Motor Magazine

by Paul Weissler

August 2004. With so many different coolants out there, it's important--make that essential--to know what's safe to put in where,
and when.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lift the hood of a new Ford vehicle and you're likely to see a yellow coolant in the overflow jug and an interesting label on it. In pictorial language it says "Do not use orange coolant; yellow coolant is okay."
Sounds pretty straightforward, right? It isn't. Lift the hood of another Ford product (in this case, a Taurus with the pushrod V6) and you'll see that same label, but the jug contains orange coolant. Wait a minute. Something clearly is very wrong. It cautions "don't use orange," but the factory-installed coolant is orange.

Lift the hood of a Chrysler product and you'll see orange coolant in the jug and a "special engine coolant only" warning on the cap. Isn't DexCool the special coolant, and isn't it orange? Yes to both questions, but Chrysler Group says don't use DexCool in its products. It's confusing, to say the least.

The basic answers to what coolant to use where, and when, are pretty simple, but when you go past that, you're getting into some pretty complex territory. And you have to know what coolant you're dealing with to be sure you're doing no harm.

Longtime Motor readers know that the color of the coolant dye really is meaningless. Dye should help you spot a leak, but that's about it. But with these seemingly contradictory warning labels, you really need a basic understanding of what's been happening with coolant formulations and colorings.

You may remember that about 93% of most coolant is ethylene glycol, another few percentage points are water and/or a solvent to keep rust/corrosion inhibitors in solution and the remainder are those inhibitors. The inhibitors make a huge difference, and they're what all the arguments are about.

Didn't we talk about all these coolants last year? You bet, and we'll probably be talking about them for years to come. Since last year, however, Honda and Toyota have moved strongly into extended-life organic acid technology (OAT) coolants. Yes, DexCools also are OATs, but these Japanese formulas are not DexCool, and the two car companies have indicated they absolutely, positively don't want DexCool-type coolants used in their vehicles.

Nevertheless, you have to pick something to install, and to top up with, and we've learned that the systems are not necessarily forgiving of some mixtures of different coolants. There are circumstances where an unfavorable mixture can cause an increase in corrosion.

Taking these issues a step further, this year we've seen more cases that contribute to coolant confusion. These days, it's all too easy to make a mistake.

You have to appreciate a bit of chemistry about the various formulas. You've got to know in basic terms what's different about the different coolants-both conventional and extended-life types-and what it means when you have to pick one. Yes, that includes a bit about the dye colors.

What's In DexCool?
You should know that the term "orange coolant" has come to mean a DexCool-approved brand but that doesn't mean it's really true. If you make this assumption, you'd be wrong. It's what Ford's warning labels could be interpreted to refer to, so that label doesn't serve to clarify things (certainly not when a Ford system contains a very different-non-DexCool, but orange-dyed-coolant). The discontinued Mercury Cougar was an exception; it did contain an orange coolant similar to DexCool.

The "DexCool" designation means the coolant passes General Motors performance testing. Although DexCool is not a specific formula, all three brands that have the label (Texaco Havoline, Prestone Extended Life and Zerex Extended Life) are somewhat similar. In particular, they're OAT coolants, but the similarities go beyond that basic description.

All DexCool-approved coolants to date use two organic acid rust/corrosion inhibitors, one called sebacate, the other called 2-EHA (which stands for 2-ethylhexanoic acid). These organic acids are very stable and last a long time, although they take thousands of miles to become fully effective in protecting coolant passages.

GM recommends a DexCool change every five years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first. Because most people drive 15,000 to 20,000 miles a year, that translates to a five-year replacement interval. As noted, the thousands of miles required to protect metal is an important trade-off for that longer life. Although like conventional coolants, OATs also contain other inhibitors, for targeted protection.

The inhibitor 2-EHA works well in hard water and is more effective than sebacate at lower pH levels (when the coolant moves from the alkaline end toward the acid side), particularly for cast iron. Well, GM has a number of cast-iron engines. When there's a low coolant level in the coolant passages, the exposed cast iron rusts. Apparently, that rust is washed away later by flowing coolant, and is deposited in the heat exchangers. It eventually produces the rust powder problems that have been so widely observed (see Motor's August 2002 issue at www.motor.com). Why does the coolant level in these engines drop?
The original radiator cap design was blamed for some of the issue, but there probably are a number of causes, including owner neglect and normal seepage. However, the rust powder issue is not a problem that was observed with the previously used conventional American coolant.

The inhibitor 2-EHA poses another issue: It's a plasticizer (softens plastic), so it has been blamed for coolant passage gasket leakage. Softening (and the resulting distortion) was reported by Ford, which encountered gasket leakage problems when it tested a DexCool-type formula on its V8 engines. Ford also saw similar issues with other gasket materials. That killed the OAT coolant idea for Ford, which had used a DexCool-like coolant in the '99 Cougar V6.

Could that inhibitor be responsible for the intake manifold coolant gasket leakage on GM 60° V6 engines? Or is there some other service issue involved? (After all, GM isn't the only one with coolant gasket leakage problems.) The experts are still working on it.

What Preceded OATs
Until the extended-life OATs came on the scene, there had been primarily two major coolant inhibitors for aluminum protection-silicates and phosphates-and conventional American coolants have used formulas containing both of them. Silicates are related to sand, and there were questions as to their effect on water pump seals. Some old tests seemed to suggest they were harmful, but there has been no credible evidence to support that stance on late-model designs with reputable brands of coolant. In fact, today's carbide seals are about as durable as you can get, and silicates that remain in solution seem to produce no problem anywhere. In real-world evaluations, there's no evidence of any issue, as silicate inhibitors have been used successfully for many decades in all makes of cars. Where a seal-deterioration issue surfaces, it has been attributed to core sand, from failure to clean engine blocks properly.

Silicates protect very quickly, so if there's some mechanical breakdown in the silicate protection, it re-forms very rapidly. For example, a water pump may suffer cavitation erosion/corrosion (a high coolant/ambient temperatures issue, particularly with certain cooling system designs).
That means that as the coolant passes through the pump, bubbles are produced, which then collapse with explosive force, pockmarking the internal parts of the pump. That pockmarking is erosion, the marks being exposed, unprotected metal. If the inhibitors work quickly, the damage stops after minor corrosion. If they work slowly (as with organic acid inhibitors), the pockmarked areas corrode for a longer period.

American conventional green coolants use doses of both silicates and phosphates. Phosphates also protect aluminum quickly, but have raised concerns in hard water. OAT coolants contain no silicates and no phosphates.

European coolants also contain no phosphates, but do contain silicates (at a somewhat lower dose than conventional American coolant) plus other inhibitors. These have been used for a long time, and although they're conventional formulas, there are enhanced versions today, as covered in the section on "Other Extended-Life Coolants."

Japanese conventional coolants contain no silicates, but they do contain phosphates for fast-acting protection, plus other inhibitors. Extensive Japanese tests have shown phosphates to be a good corrosion inhibitor for aluminum, and particularly effective in protecting water pumps from corrosion after cavitation erosion/corrosion.

The questions about 2-EHA were raised not only by Ford (and reportedly DaimlerChrysler) but within Japanese coolant development circles, as well. When Honda introduced its long-life coolant, it specifically excluded 2-EHA, and we can tell you there is unhappiness at Honda regarding DexCool in the new Saturn VUE with the Honda-supplied 3.5L V6. The system is being filled with DexCool because that's what's in the plant for everything else. It would not be simple to set up a separate coolant fill system for the Honda engine.

We can't tell you how this dispute is going to play out, but you do have to make a choice when it's time to change. The engine already has been protected with DexCool (unless there's an assembly line change in the works) and it's reasonable to install that when you service that engine. However, to extend gasket life and protect the water pump impeller and chamber, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to flush the system and switch to a coolant with phosphates and/or silicates (conventional American or G-05) at this point.

Other Extended-Life Coolants
Ford and Chrysler Group use G-05, a low-silicate, no-phosphate formula long specified by Mercedes, even for its passenger car diesels. Once a similar formula even was made by Texaco for Saturn, with green dye and carrying a 3/36 service interval. Today, the Ford and aftermarket versions have yellow dye-or at least they're supposed to. And the Chrysler Group formula has been dyed orange. Now that we've seen Ford products with orange, it's possible that some of the stuff meant for Chrysler also is being shipped to Ford. Or perhaps it's the DexCool-like coolant used in the old Cougar, although that's doubtful. It's confusing, particularly when you see a "don't use orange" label on the coolant jug and there's orange coolant in the jug.

What is G-05? It's called a HOAT (for hybrid organic acid technology) that today serves for extended intervals, typically 5 years/100,000 miles. Like conventional Euro coolants, it's a low-silicate, no-phosphate formula designed to pass European hard water tests. The reference to OAT in HOAT is for an organic acid inhibitor called benzoate, which actually has been used for many years in almost every American, Japanese and European conventional coolant except what we now call OAT.

Honda and Toyota use a new extended-life OAT coolant-made with sebacate as the only organic acid-no 2-EHA. Sebacate isn't quite as effective in combating corrosion at lower pH levels, but because that's more of a cast-iron issue, it apparently didn't concern the Japanese. Both Honda and Toyota do continue to avoid silicates, but add a dose of phosphates to provide fast-acting aluminum protection, particularly to recoat the water pump after cavitation erosion/corrosion.

What to Use
We used to say that maintaining the coolant level was more important than which type of coolant to use. But there's new evidence that we've been too cavalier in that respect. Sure, for small top-ups or in an emergency situation, it doesn't matter-use what you have. However, there are possible problems with extreme mixtures. An example cited by one coolant chemist: A somewhat diluted mix, perhaps 50% to 60% water, with the remainder (from top-ups) a 50-50 combination of an OAT and a conventional American coolant or a G-05. A remaining inhibitor (borate) could attack aluminum if the silicates are depleted. This becomes more of an issue when a part is being changed, and that new part has no protection against cavitation erosion/corrosion.

Top up with DexCool in GM and VW/Audi vehicles, and '98 Chrysler L/H cars or the '99 Mercury Cougar, if you get one with the original coolant or DexCool. Top up everything else with your second coolant-G-05 or conventional American.

Replacement Parts
Original equipment coolants are validated for factory replacement parts. One of the issues that may arise is the use of an aftermarket replacement radiator or heater core made of copper-brass with lead solder. We have in previous articles pointed out that today's coolant inhibitor packages contain a small amount of copper-brass protection, but may provide little protection if a radiator is made with high-lead solder. Results of industry standard tests of the new Toyota extended-life coolant now show a substantial weight loss (corrosion), both in a 50-50 mix and in a 33% coolant mixture (solder corrosion is much greater in this more diluted solution).

If you have to change a radiator or heater core, use aluminum. Or, if it's an older car and the owner wants the lowest-cost radiator, you might procure a soldered-together copper-brass unit. Conventional American coolant should provide better protection against solder corrosion, which can result in radiator tube restrictions and leaks. But no coolant provides perfect protection.

If you're replacing aluminum parts on an engine, such as a water pump or even a new cylinder head, remember that part's coolant passages have not been protected. In those cases you should perform a complete coolant exchange.

Complete Coolant Service Choices
Chances are you'll standardize on two coolants to cover most situations. One will be a DexCool formula; the other could be a G-05 extended-life or a conventional American (green or gold). A better approach would be to have all three coolants. When it comes to what to use and when, here are recommended or suggested strategies:
GM and VW/Audi vehicles. For these applications, use DexCool because that's in accordance with factory coolant formula recommendations. Sure, the vehicle probably will be out of warranty by the time you get it and have to make a decision. But the OE recommendation is the safe way to go, and because you can easily obtain a DexCool, it's a no-brainer.

Ford and Chrysler vehicles. Here again, it's a no-brainer. Both companies have identified problems with DexCool, so use something else. G-05 is available in the aftermarket, so that's your choice for extended life on vehicles from those makers. However, if your second coolant is conventional American, that's fine. The recommended service interval is shorter, but if the coolant level is maintained and the motorist is not a high-mileage driver, it can serve beyond two years. In fact, Ford long recommended four-year intervals with conventional American coolant.

Japanese vehicles. This is a problem area, because Japanese-spec coolants have never been sold in the U.S. aftermarket and history says conventional American coolants work well in these vehicles. Toyota research indicates the new extended-life coolant contains phosphates to protect the water pump, and DexCool contains no phosphate. Honda has said it will not use a coolant with 2-EHA. So both carmakers exclude DexCool. Best solution with aftermarket coolants: Do a complete coolant exchange, and replace the Japanese OE coolant-conventional or extended-life -with conventional American or G-05.

Coolant Exchange
Never before has the capability to do a complete coolant exchange been more important. Even if you're changing a DexCool system and putting in new DexCool, you want to get the system full, really full. A low coolant level is bad news, particularly with cast-iron engines. Even if the engine is aluminum, a low coolant level could mean engine-damaging temperatures and surely cause poor heater performance in winter. With today's smaller coolant capacities, the system doesn't have to be low by much for problems to surface.

If you're making a change in coolant type, such as any Japanese coolant to American green or G-05, you should get at least 90% of the old stuff out. The only way to do this and ensure a full system when you're done is with coolant exchange equipment.

A complete coolant exchange can be done manually, if you have a lot of time and infinite patience, plus a willingness to lose money on the job.
In addition to the coolant exchangers already on the market, we've been seeing new ones designed to handle two or more coolants. They're a recognition of the many different coolants currently in use.

Whatever the coolant, remember the other half of the mixture is water. In hard water areas, always use de-mineralized water. Some coolant formulas are more tolerant of hard water than others, but that doesn't mean it's good for them.

When I open the hood, I can definitly see it's leaking. But it's leaking VERY slow. My car has 50k miles and I have only added little amount of coolent TWICE ever. My engine oil always seems fine. But I remember I put too much coolent into the tank. Could this cause a leak?

I have to go to work, i'll read the whole article later. Thank you for posting it.. AnzGA, I would say no because we have an overflow on the top of the coolent tank. If there is too much, it runs into the middle of the engine bay where it then drips to the ground. Thank you again for posting the article jung, I'll finish it when I get home.
-Michael-

29000 unfortunatley

Today I made it into the poll. 68Kms. (41k miles)

Yep, my turn to replace gaskets. I have seen the part number for the new gasket kit in some other threads in the forum but just in case:

The GM part number for the new gasket kit is: 89017279

Other parts used to do the job:

Part Number;Description;Qty
89017279;Intake manifold Gasket;1
11588915;Intake manifold bolt - short ;4
11588914;Intake manifold bolt - long;4


Regards
Manuel Nieto

Im Replacing My Gasket Right Now Hopefully Ill Have It Done This Weekend.

had it at ~50k

I just called the dealership for service. Low Coolant light keeps coming on now. These guys better not try to charge me a month after the LIM was replaced. Bets part is that the service center authorized for my Grand Am is a ford dealership, 45 minutes away. Ahh Hell.

You might be wondering why my GA goes to a Ford dealership for repair...Simple answer: God damn 3rd party warrenty....

2002 gt 35000 and no leak

infernall, who is your 3rd party warrenty through, sounds really rough that you need your gm/pontiac product fixed through ford

had a cracked intake manifold which lead to gasket replaced and new water pump. at 40000 with my 99gagt