What facts?

Oh, I know how about the one of continually slipping market share. Is that not the ultimate test of a company? Back in the day GM had what almost 60 percent of the market? Today they are down under 30 percent? That is their big objective, to get and maintain 30 percent market share!!!!! There is a dark corner with people with their eyes closed. Every years there are less people in that corner!

The DEALERS INFLATED THE MSRP DINGALING.... Now they are letting loose with the incentives to clear the 04 inventory so they can get the 05 allocations.... The Dealer can still show mark up if they want, wont sell the car, but the can try and sell it to you for 40k today if they want........ The incentives come from the manufacturer, no ****, my 11 yr old knows that....!

actually, fo44rd is right for once: source

Do you really want me to drive 30 miles to scan the window sticker?
You send me the gas money and I will do just that...!

I do have a problem with GM. My mom works for them and her shares in GM rise in value as fast their cars do. Most of the people she works with are in agreement the gemeral is behind the times in terms of build really good cars. It speaks volumes for a company when half the employees show up to work in cars other than a GM product. 30 years ago that would have been a sin equal to death. 10 years ago it wasn't looked upon as the "right" thing to do. Today it is common place. It is the apathy of those who are blindly loyal that allows manufactures to get away with the crap they pull.

HOLD ME!!!!!!

I AM SCARED!!!!!

lol lol lol lol

Thanks Ant for posting that... Although, it doesnt give the numbers for the WS6 option package... so 29-30k (being generous with 1k dealer markup), and then the WS6 package added, you would arrive at or around 35k...... :)

what was included with the ws6 package? (not condemming either side, just curious)

Are you driving back to 1997?

If I am to interpret your babble correctly:

1)you "twist" the inference that incetives were availible from the begining on the GTO, which they weren't

2)that you know about franchising laws, proving that a dealer can charge whatever he wants for a product

3)You seem to be getting adivisarial here! Did I call you to the rug a few to many times.


Here is a tip for you:

If others are agreeing with me, I am having a really good day in here!!!!!

So we are waffling between 29 and 35 here????? 6 THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!! Who is doing the twisting of facts here??????? IM me if you every want to sell a car. I will give you 6 THOUSAND less than it is worth! I will be "around" your asking price!

I sound apathetic, but believe me when I say, I have had over 6 Mustangs from 74 Mustang II's w/ 6's to 86 5.0's w/ the Dominator package, I have had 4 Thunderbirds including a 87 Turbo Coupe, I have owned 4 1988-2003 Grand Ams, 5 Grand Prixs, 3 1974-1982 Trans Ams, 1977-1985 Plymouths, a 71 Oldsmobile, a 77 Buick Century, a 71 Javelin, Ford Trucks, Chevy Trucks, Datsun's and the list goes on and on... Grand total being 49 counting the GTO.... So you can see I am more diverse than you think... I made it a hobby to buy and sell cars for a while....

GM-Holden Division has in the case of the GTO, gone far and above in quality than the GM-American Division... Whether it stays that way, we will have to wait and see... As far as reliability, the LS1 has already proven itself in the Vette.... Americanization reliablity, well, there are some small issues, but that is to be expected with one a car that was retrofitted and brought to fruitation in a mere 18 months.....
Is it worth 33k, in my opinion, Yes!..... Is the 05 worth 34k? In my opinion, Yes!
Is it worth 4-5k more because of Dealer markup? No! Clearly the Dealer markup and lack of advertising killed the 04 GTO in sales... The car didnt.. The car is well worth the MSRP......

I am sorry you have had such a bad experiance with GM, but rest assured, dont mistake the GTO for just "another" GM product, because its not....

29k was the convert's MSRP... We all agree on Dealer markup dont we? I was being VERY generous with a 1k Dealer markup... I will dbl check on the WS6 package price to nail it down to an exact.

Ant- to answer your question, the WS6 Performance Package included the Functional Ram Air Hood, Special Exhaust tips, Guage Package, not sure if the Monsoon was a standard or addon, the 6 speed version was more than the auto, and the badging. I know there was some performance additions as well, but at this very moment I wont speculate....

It is very easy and very feasable to bring the cost to "at" or "around" 35k with the WS6 option and dealer markup when bought in 1997.....

It is not just me. The company I use to work for and will on a part time basis again is a AC-DELCO wholesaler. We deliver in Fords. The owner gave up on dealing with all the problem a chevy trucks gave them. I still find it funny when people approach me, if I am in a marked one, and ask "isn't delco gm? them why are you delivering in a ford?". It was deemed cheaper to run fords. My next door nieghbor has a 99 gt and the guy across the alley has a 01 gt. They have had numerous problems like the ones I described on mine. Niether will buy a GM again. I am hoping GM can pull its head out of its a*s.

The thing that irritates me is the LIM that is common on every 3100 and 3400 ever built. These engines have been around over a decade. They still leak! GM doesn't care. Hardly ever will your LIM leak under warranty, well at least not bad enough were a normal person would notice it. So GM screws the general population and keeps making them, without fixing the problem. The burns me more than anything, the pure apathey and greed invovled. Secondly, I cannot stand corner cutting, as you can see by my signature. Compaired to my car, your car is lacking the correct (you have Alero leftovers and they aren't even painted) painted mirrors, door badges (you have an 30th, so you have them, but commoner gt's do without), no glovebox lock, no lumbar support in the seats, if you have cloth the material got cheaper, the padding is of an inferior quality starting in 2003, you have no trunk cargo net, and here is a really petty one for you - my lug nuts are cadium coated, yours are just plain steel.

I cannot stand cost-cutting. It kills the brand. Ford is guilty too.

This is the kind of discussion I have been searching for all along this thread...!

Thank You!

Hmmm, this reminds me of something:

:thumbs: Chrysler is guilty of this too. Dad had a '01 300M and traded for an '04 300M. Chrysler decontented the M terribly. I was turned off after I noticed all the missing items and cheap parts used. Sound system is downright terrible.

I totally agree with you.

I am accused of hating GM on this site a lot. I do not hate any manufacturer. I hate the cost cutting and I will not shut up about it. I don't really complain about Chrysler because their product are almost a non-issue to me. They are too far gone. Example: If you buy a neon and get power windows, only the fronts are power and the backs are cranks. W.T.F.!!!! And the buying public puts up with that? It is unreal.

It is a scam by the manufacturers. When are all cars reviewed by the magazine and put under scutiny? Usually the first 2 years or so, then they become old news. Then, when someone comes in and buys a car a few years into the model cycle he/she is getting hosed. They are no longer buying the car they read about. In my eyes, what happened to your dad is a lesser version of

BAIT AND SWITCH!

That's why you research carefully befoe you buy. Even then you take a risk, but researching helps prevent what you call bait and switch.

So we will all have to troll the used car lots of america to figure out how we are getting corner cut every model year on every car maker! Beautyful!

Is that a Doberman with it ears not clipped in you pic?