Tom, I must say, that sounds pretty damn nice. :thumbs:

Just because the principle hasn't changed, the signal being sent to the PCM has changed. Just because the principle hasn't changed doesn't mean that how different PCMs interpret the signals hasn't changed. Did you ever think that an 03+ PCM may look for the on and off signals 180º apart, whereas the older PCMs only look for a square wave that is small? Even with the correct sensor, how the PCM interprets the signal might have changed. What if the principle is to read the start of the square wave instead of the end of the square wave? Well then, the 03+ design would trigger the injectors about 170º too early.

Without knowing how the PCM interprets the signal, there is no way to know if it will work until someone tries it.

I dont know if this was brought up but, you can run a 1994 or 95 Beretta without a cam sensor i'm pretty sure its the same for any other 94-95 OBDI cars as well.

-Stephanie, Erich's Girlfriend.

From AllData:

PURPOSE
The camshaft sensor is a hall-effect sensor installed on the top front of the engine, above the front of the camshaft. The tip of the sensor comes very near a reluctor "pole" piece, cast as part of the camshaft. When this pole piece passes the sensor tip, the disturbance in the sensors magnetic field turns the hall-effect switch "OFF" and "ON" again, producing a signal that the computer can read.

OPERATION
As the camshaft sprocket turns, a magnet in it activates the Hall-effect switch in the cam sensor. When the Hall-effect switch is activated, it grounds the signal line to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) , pulling the cam signal line's applied voltage low. This is interpreted as a cam signal. The cam signal is created as piston # 1 is on the intake stroke and used by the PCM to synchronize Sequential Fuel Injection (SFI) mode of operation with each intake valve opening. If the cam signal is not received by the PCM, the PCM will still operate in the SFI mode based on the reference signal, however, SFI mode timing may not be as accurate because the PCM does not know the exact time the intake valve is opening. A loss of this signal or extra cam signals, above 500 RPM, to the PCM will set a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) P0342 or P0341.

This is what I'm going to find out when I get my engine started. If it doesn't work, then hopefully I'll be able to fix it with the DHP powrtuner I ordered. I should be able to get a 2003 engine program (which would have the correct code to operate with the different cam signal) and use that as a tuning base. That would get the engine running, but I'm really hoping it's not that hard, because that would mean anyone with a N-body older than 2003 would have to get a custom program in order to use the cam... and that would suck.

I am very interested in this aswell, I hope the cam problem is just a simple sensor swap. That video was awsome, sounds very nice.

As soon as the cam sensor problem is figured out (if it is a problem) and dyno #'s are posted for the stage 1 and stage 2 cams I will be ready with cash in hand. Hell I might even drive to Dayton if Milzy would install it.


Milzy thanks for stepping up and supporting our vehicles, you are a dedicated individual.

again

My bad I must've missed the post. The total cost of all of the parts was ~ $1950. Heads, intake manifolds, cam and all of the new gaskets and bolts needed. Install was another $350.

WOAH that's alot of green....definatley worth it though. are all your other mods happy with it? (i.e. compatibility issues, tuning problems, a/f out of whack, etc)?

wtf That cam costs over $1000 ???????? wow.

Cam costs $350, but in order to run it you will need the Stage 2 heads as well. So if you look at it that way then yes, it costs over $1,000. Intake manifolds aren't a must but I wanted to get the most flow.
I run a little rich at idle and lower rpms, but at WOT everything is perfect. Only other problems are misfires, and I'm fixing that as we speak.

Wow.. 1400 for heads and mani's?? oo k... :hammer: whoever invented the "stage" system

thanks for clarifying tho, sounds badass at least:cheers:



Aaron when you get a 2003 base program, you are still going to have to swap out the sensor and wires to match 2003 too right?? At least that's what I'm reading from what Brad was saying.. I might have a new project soon with a 3400 ;) lol

heads + cam at once then. ok, price is reasonable now methinks.

dyno soon?

There were going to be free dyno pulls today at the grand opening of a shop near me. They moved it to next weekend because of the weather, since a lot of the activities were going to be held outside.

Seth, the heads and mani's were well below $1400, and they were ported out significantly. You have to factor in all of the new gaskets and head bolts ($75 for the set of bolts alone) as well. That stuff alone ran at about $275-$325 methinks.

Just to clarify, he had to run the stage 2 heads because he got the stage 2 cam, and there are some mods to the head/valve train needed to clear the stage2 cam's lift (that's my understanding anyway). The stage1 cam can be run with stock heads and gear, and just a valve spring swap. Of course, you'd really want to get ported heads and headers at least to get the most gain from the cam. I think what Tom paid for the level of mods he got and the install was very reasonable.


Seth... yes, I have the '03 sensor already. It will be required to work with the type of trigger that is machined on the cam. The only question at this point is compatability of that sensor signal with different year pcm programs, and if custom programming will be required or not. Crossing my fingers... :)

I hope we can see some tranny components in the future from milzy. I think a 3.69 final drive ratio kit and a decent priced 3000-3500RPM torque convertor would compliment the "stage 2" cam and heads nicely. Of course with the 3.69's more custom tuning will be needed IIRC. Will DHP be able to tune everything properly or would dyno tuning be required for "stage 2" mods?

I'd double check the pinouts too on the plug too.. I can't explain it like I'm trying but the pre-03 wiring might go to a different spot on the PCM than 03+ . should be possible to overcome tho :ec:

Weve talked about trans parts before, it would be a nice thing to sell, we just have to do some research and find a parts maker

Yes, I heard the position of two of the wires was switched between '02 and '03. I'm looking into that to find out which ones I have to switch. Also the '03 sensor just has the plug built into the top, while the '00-'02 sensor has a section of wires coming out of the sensor then to the plug. It plugs into the injector harness section which can be completely removed by itself. I'm thinking I should be able to just unwrap the harness and re-route the wires so I have enough length to reach the sensor. Here's a pic of the two sensors so everyone can see the difference between them.

some of these prices have since changed slightly. and trust me, that $350 labor is not happening again. i haven't decided on a solid price yet, but heads and cam install for 350 is not enough.