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-   -   HOW TO: Intstall a 6 speed in a GA GT (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73212)

timka86 02-08-2008 10:32 PM

HOW TO: Intstall a 6 speed in a GA GT
 
Cost wise, I've spent right about $3000. some of these costs were needed to see if the parts would work. Like the spare block I bought for a mock up, spare grand am axle, center console(which is identicle to the auto GA console).
More pictures are available at http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...0SWAP/?start=0

Parts needed:

15296500 shifter
55351918 shifter cables to transmission bracket
22668353 passenger side axle (G6)
10357933 intermediate axle shaft (G6)
15823114 parking cable assembly - ignition (is not necessarily needed, will explain later)
15296498 shift knob
15296501 spring for reverse shift
15296499 shift boot assembly
21018899 trans fluid (sold in 6 quarts)
15788845 shifter cable assembly (both cables and firewall grommet)
15840117 alternate P/N - for shifter cables (these were backordered)
22708444 rear trans mount
10357932 Driver's side axle
94' 3.1L sunbird stickshift flywheel (i believe 91-94 should all work) Fidanza makes aluminum 8 lb version as well)
Clutch pedal assembly from 99-05 5spd grand am
hydrolic clutch cylinder from 99-05 5spd grand am
tuning software (dhp or hptuners) I'll be using DHP
clutch assembly and aluminum spacer from V8 Archie part #VA884F (www.v8archie.com)

transmission information:
F40 transmission (MT2 or MU9) only difference is gear ratios:

2006 F40 (MT2)
Type: transverse front wheel drive, six
speed manual transaxle
Engine range: 3.9L
Maximum engine torque: 245 lb-ft ( 333 Nm )
Maximum gearbox torque: 295 lb-ft ( 400 Nm )
Gear ratios: MT2
First: 3.77
Second: 2.04
Third: 1.32
Fourth: 0.95
Fifth: 0.76
Sixth: 0.62
Reverse: 3.54
Final Drive 3.55
Maximum validated gross vehicle weight: 3527 lb ( 1600 kg )
Case material: aluminum
Center distance: 197 mm
Fluid type: Castrol BOT 0063
Transmission weight: 56 kg ( 123.5 lb )
Fluid capacity (approximate): 3.1L / 3.27 qt ( dry )
Power take off: no
Applications: Pontiac G6

2007 GME Germany F40 ( MU9 ) 04/04/06
Type: transverse front wheel drive, six-speed manual transaxle
Engine range: GM 3.9L V6 ( LZ9 )
Maximum engine torque: 245 lb-ft ( 333 Nm)
Maximum gearbox torque: 295 lb-ft ( 400 Nm )
Gear ratios: MU9
First: 3.769
Second: 2.040
Third: 1.365
Fourth: 1.048
Fifth: 0.846
Sixth: 0.707
Reverse: 3.538
Final Drive Ratio: 3.55
Maximum validated gross vehicle weight: 3527 lb ( 1600 kg )
Case material: aluminum
Center distance: 197 mm
Fluid type: Castrol BOT 0063
Transmission weight: wet: 56 kg ( 123.5 lb )
Fluid capacity (approximate): 3.1L / 3.27 qt. ( dry )
Power take off: no
Applications: Pontiac G6

a lot of the research was done on fiero forums, since they have been swapping this transmission in since about 05' when the G6 was introduced.

the G6 has a dual mass flywheel, which means it's thicker and heavier then your normal stickshift flywheel. To compensate for this, the option is to use an aluminum spacer to make the input shaft of the transmission reach the clutch.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02291.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02285.jpg
these are pictures of the aluminum spacer, I can't take the credit for this invention Archie, from www.v8archie.com is responsible for it, I bought it from him, he's done a lot of 6 spd swaps and some that have the same flywheel spacing as my application, he has these custom made for him by Spec Clutches. It came with this clutch assembly.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02290.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02287.jpg
it's a stage 4+ clutch.

So all of the above get's bolted to the FW and it's all good to go, no other modifications necessary.

More good news is that the clutch cylinder from the 99-05 5spd Grand Am's has the same fitting that connects to the hydrolic Throw Out (T.O.) brearing that the G6 does:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02260.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02261.jpg

The 3.1L sunbird flywheel is the exact same size as the Grand Am stock flywheel, same # of teeth, so the stock starter can stay:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02262.jpg

timka86 02-08-2008 10:42 PM

you will need both of the G6 axles, drivers and passenger side as they are different, unlike the Grand Am axles which are identicle on both sides, the driver's side as a male inboard end and a female inboard end on the passenger side for the G6. They also have a third axle (a jack shaft) or intermediate shaft that mount behind the block because the stickshift trans is smaller then the 4t45e that the grand ams come with.

Top axle is a stock grand am axle(dark in color), bottom is a G6 axle (light in color)
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02246.jpg
and as you can see the outboard CV's are identicle on both G6 and Grand Am axles. Same length too.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02249.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02250.jpg

I)ark-ChiLD 02-09-2008 02:21 PM

when ur done. do mine please.

notsoaveragej0e 02-09-2008 02:29 PM

Looks liek it is going to be very cool- I can't wait to see the finished product!

I think it would be cool if you kept the stock shift knob from the G6 in the Grand Am, just so that its sort of covert: no one will realize what you did unless they know cars.

KhellendrosxS 02-09-2008 03:45 PM

Finally someone who isnt all talk! My hat is off to you for taking on this project and giving some hope to those of us who might want to consider this in the future. I cant wait to see how the PCM reacts to these changes and that you are going to use a DHP tuner to button things up. This should be well worth it!

onesexyga 02-09-2008 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notsoaveragej0e (Post 957561)
Looks liek it is going to be very cool- I can't wait to see the finished product!

I think it would be cool if you kept the stock shift knob from the G6 in the Grand Am, just so that its sort of covert: no one will realize what you did unless they know cars.



I'll second that. Very stealthlike.

timka86 02-10-2008 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khellendrosxs (Post 957586)
Finally someone who isnt all talk! My hat is off to you for taking on this project and giving some hope to those of us who might want to consider this in the future. I cant wait to see how the PCM reacts to these changes and that you are going to use a DHP tuner to button things up. This should be well worth it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesexyga (Post 957597)
I'll second that. Very stealthlike.

well that's exactly how i'm doing it, i want it to look as original as possible, clean, not so ricey.

Yes I'm using all the original shifter parts from the G6, as far as knob is concened. The boot is still being debated. The G6 came with a black boot and a silver/chrome ring around the base, the grand am doesn't have any of that in the interior, my interior is gray.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5810.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5809.jpg

I do have a great am stickshift boot that will fit around the shifter into the center console with no cutting, but the top of the boot near the knob has two snap buttons. clip onto the shifter itself.

On the G6 the boot is sold as am assembly because it's sewen onto a plastic peice that goes on before the knob that keeps you from shifting in reverse without actually lifting a stopper, same principle as the 5spd grand am, for those who have it know what I'm talking about. some cars you ave to push down on the shifter to shift into reverse, here you have to lift a "safety blocker" to allow the shifter to go into the reverse position so you don't shift into reverse when you're not trying to. So even if i didn't want to black boot, i still have to buy it cuz it comes with this one necessary piece.

so black boot, or gray boot that'll actually match the rest of my interior? When it comes closer to it, i'll takes pics of both in the car and then I'll see.

As you can see the knob itself is black leather/plather i think, with a chrome(actually chromed plastic, kinda like chrometech) insirt with the gear diagram.

timka86 02-10-2008 08:59 AM

couple more pics or the trans, Grand Am 5 spd gray boot, and clutch pedal assembly.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5756.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5755.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5744.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5746.jpg

silvergtjrad 02-10-2008 09:02 AM

Awesome man! Ive gotta stop in and check it out sometime, you are pretty close bye.

Whats the running total on $$$ invested so far?

lone_wolf025 02-10-2008 01:31 PM

Hmm a very good alternative to the 5 speed swap. How solid is that trans, do we know yet?

timka86 02-10-2008 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergtjrad (Post 957722)
Awesome man! Ive gotta stop in and check it out sometime, you are pretty close bye.

Whats the running total on $$$ invested so far?

3k almost right on the dot, that's only transmission related. i'm upgrading some engine components too. i didn't count engine upgrades into the total. I wanted to keep this strictly transmission costs so to have a better idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone_wolf025 (Post 957765)
Hmm a very good alternative to the 5 speed swap. How solid is that trans, do we know yet?

solid as far as I know, 400hp LS2's have been swapped with this tranny into fiero's and nothing brocken yet, BUT lot's of burned rubber:) I know Saabs used this tranny with some of their turbo cars, 9-3 and/or 9-5 i just don't know what years.

g4mbl3 02-12-2008 11:02 PM

this would truly be amazing...


btw was this swap done with an auto trans or an already man swap? and if it was just a man swap, then would it cost anything more to do this with an auto? thx

Rich 02-12-2008 11:09 PM

^he had an auto.

looking forward to seeing the progress!

as far as the boot, maybe look into www.redlinegoods.com. they have quality stuff.

timka86 02-13-2008 07:26 AM

I have an auto currently, 3.4 L with a 4t45e to be exact. I'm in the process of converting it to a 6 spd stick. cost to convert an already stick GA would be slightly less, you already have the clutch cylinder, and it's a perfect match for both tranny's (6 spd and the 5 spd), you'd need to get the 6 speed shifter, but the cables can be customized from the 5 speed to work with the 6 spd. you already have the flywheel so you wont need that. but those aren't the biggest costs, that saves you about 200-300$.

LukeL 02-14-2008 04:23 AM

Very impressive project as well as to the amount of knowledge you have. I look forward to watching this build. Good work!

timka86 02-14-2008 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeL (Post 958771)
Very impressive project as well as to the amount of knowledge you have. I look forward to watching this build. Good work!

Thank you, most of everything i know about this is from reading forums. All the information is out there. Honestly I think I do more research when it comes to my car then school work...

anyway, another update. for those who still need to get rid of the doubt whether the trans will bolt to our block, here you go:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02345.jpg

the first big snag is the mounting of the intermediate shaft., the holes on the back of the block don't align with the bearing mount holes, but only by a hair, a couple degrees and about 1/10th of an inch vertically, and a whopping one inch horizontally.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02346.jpg

plan of attack is to make a wedge shaped mount that'll bolt to the block and then to the bearing. In this picture I tilted the mount away from the engine on an angle, so the wedge will fill the space between the engine and bearing bracket.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02347.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02352.jpg
for those thinking why don't I just put a washer in there and make the loop for the bolt slightly bigger on the two holes that almost align; what about the other two holes, I'll have to way of making a bracket to mount the other two holes. and this is a critical area, if the shaft binds, it'll break or blow the bearing.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/DSC02348.jpg

timka86 02-15-2008 11:59 PM

bracket is finished, here it is:

How to make the bracket:
Step one, cut out two plates out of 1/4" steel, and drill four holes in each plate, one plate corresponding to the holes on the block, and the other plate the holes need to correspond to the holes on the intermediate half-shaft support bearing.

After you have the two plates, you bolt each of them to their corresponding parts (block and support bearing.
You'll need the transmission bolted to the block to do this. When the two are attached, you insirt the intermediate axle into the transmission, and the bearing support bracket, will rotate around the axle. You rotate the axle so that the plates on their corresponding parts come together at an angle, you don't want it too close, because you'll need to get bolts in between the two plates to attach this bracket to the block. look at the pics to get an idea. I used all four bolt holes on the block, so the two holes at the bottom would be aweful hard to get a bolt into them that's removable. You'll need to drill two holes corresponding to the holes on the block in the plate that bolts to the bearing bracket on the intermediate shaft. Basically, through holes so you can get bolts to attach the whole thing to the block. See pics for a better idea of what I mean.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5956.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5955.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5952.jpg

silvergtjrad 02-16-2008 05:41 AM

Damn, im getting jealous now!

AaronGTR 02-16-2008 08:29 AM

Yeah, I knew you were gonna have trouble with that bracket. They changed the mounting bosses on the back of the block on the 3500 and 3900. There was never any doubt the block would bolt to the tranny though. We all know they share the same bolt pattern.

Looks like you've made a lot of progress. Lots of good info here too. I think I would have waited to make a "how-to" thread until it was all installed and working though.

lastyear4gt 02-17-2008 08:12 AM

Looks great, but thats alot of money just to convert to a manual. Original though.......

silvergtjrad 02-17-2008 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastyear4gt (Post 959423)
Looks great, but thats alot of money just to convert to a manual. Original though.......

That isnt a lot of money at all. The car wasnt available with a manual transmission so it is entirely custom. Take it to a shop and see what they charge you to do something like this. Easily 30 hours or more of labor, plus paying outrageous markup on parts.

Modifying cars isnt a cheap hobby.

lightningGA 02-17-2008 10:22 AM

Amazing progress so far...looking forward to seeing this thing completed!!!

Rodney3400 02-17-2008 10:30 AM

Just a suggestion, but perhaps a half shaft bracket from a beretta or earlier cavalier would work like this one:

http://www.bstuff.com/index.php?show...8&#entry685098

If the bearing is not the right size for the 6 spd shaft, im sure the correct bearing could be found. That bracket will bolt up to a 3400, this I know first hand.

Edit: This would have to assume that the distance from the axle hole to the block is the same as the older getrags, perhaps someone already knows if this is the same or not?

timka86 02-17-2008 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR (Post 959246)
Yeah, I knew you were gonna have trouble with that bracket. They changed the mounting bosses on the back of the block on the 3500 and 3900. There was never any doubt the block would bolt to the tranny though. We all know they share the same bolt pattern.

Looks like you've made a lot of progress. Lots of good info here too. I think I would have waited to make a "how-to" thread until it was all installed and working though.

I was debating waiting till the end too, but I figured this way there's less chance of me leaving stuff out this way

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastyear4gt (Post 959423)
Looks great, but thats alot of money just to convert to a manual. Original though.......

original, one of a kind is right:)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodney3400 (Post 959442)
Just a suggestion, but perhaps a half shaft bracket from a beretta or earlier cavalier would work like this one:

http://www.bstuff.com/index.php?show...8&#entry685098

If the bearing is not the right size for the 6 spd shaft, im sure the correct bearing could be found. That bracket will bolt up to a 3400, this I know first hand.

Edit: This would have to assume that the distance from the axle hole to the block is the same as the older getrags, perhaps someone already knows if this is the same or not?

you have to be a member to view those pictures, the bearing is correct for the G6 axle, it's bolt holes on the back of the block that vary as AaronGTR had said. distance of the hole to the block i don't know if that's any different, this was the easiest way of doing it with out having a CNC maching available.

timka86 02-17-2008 10:01 PM

so here's what the GA looks like after about 6 hours on the car yesterday:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5957.jpg

this is a picture of the right side of the engine bay, if you notice something is missing:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5959.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5960.jpg

the six speed is wider then the 4t45e, and the left side mount is in the way of it, so I drilled out nine spot welds and removed the transmission mount that was welded to the frame.

cmtapanes 02-17-2008 11:01 PM

keep the updates coming; cant wait to see the final product. Keep up the good work

timka86 02-18-2008 08:57 AM

question for all of you, do you think that I should solid mount the transmission and engine to the frame? meaning no rubber mounts.

I have had a solid urethane front mount for the last couple months, and when the car misfires, which I've had more and more, the vibration at the steering wheel get's a little worse, nothing that ever bothered me. but considering the engine will run like it should, smooth, and at a higher idle of about ~800 rpm with the stick tranny, anyone have any reasons why i shouldn't solid mount?

Sprucegagt 02-18-2008 09:15 AM

Unless you want to feel every single vibration from that engine and transmission, I would leave the mounts in.

silvergtjrad 02-18-2008 05:41 PM

I would put it on some poly mounts. Still pretty stiff, but not ridiculous. You cant make it too uncomfortable to drive or ride in.

timka86 02-18-2008 11:07 PM

well here's an update for what I've done today 2-18-08:

the transmission and block fit in the engine bay with the driver's side automatic transmission mount removed (see post #25)
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5963.jpg

there is enough room to not have to chop the frame, this thing fits like a glove, it's like it was made for this car, I'm thrilled:)

I'll have urethane mounts front and rear. (home made one , there's a how-to around here some where). I've had one on for some time and it has worked very well. for the rear mount, as will mention later, filled the stock G6 rear mount with urethane and use that. with a slight mod to it as mentioned below.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5974.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5975.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5973.jpg
the above pic is actually the G6 rear mount, slightly modified to fit the grand Am bracket, the G6 mound is about 1/2 inch wider, so I chopped off about 1/4 off each side and it fit great only thing is that it pull the engine/trans towards the rear, and thus angling everything,
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5978.jpg
the above pic is the bracket that i cut off that is not needed. it sits under the stock air box, but since i don't even have that, AND it get's in the way of the shift linkage, so I cut it off right under the fuse box, also the ears on the left corner of the box aren't needed either, so those are going too. they get in the way, especially when you have to move wires out of the way.

side view, the trans does not hit the frame it does push out the plastic shield a little, but that will have to be cut anything to make a side lower mount, more on this later.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5965.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5968.jpg

the following pic i pulled out the fuse box out of it's home seating position and behind it on the wire wall you see two bolts about 3 inches apart, that's where the hydrolic clutch cylinder goes. I did some comparing of the clutch pedal assembly, and earlier I had a picture of it, apparently the huge aluminum piece is not needed, we already have that in the cars, it sits above the steering column under the dash, what is needed is every little thing that's bolted to it that only the stickshift cars require.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...P/IMG_5976.jpg

mr_eh 02-19-2008 12:06 AM

best thread on gagt.com in a while, nice work so far

funny reading the "how much to do this" "thats too much!" comments

3000$ isnt a lot of money to spend modding a car...

lvemy3100 02-19-2008 05:50 AM

couple things..

1st... Tim, you rock..

and 2nd.. asI said in the past if you need any help you know you have my # and email so dont be afraid to use them ;)

mattamd_xp 02-19-2008 06:56 AM

Awesome progress! I'm watching this with much interest :)

Bryan 02-19-2008 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattamd_xp (Post 960008)
Awesome progress! I'm watching this with much interest :)

x2 Nice job, I hope you don't run into any huge obstacles down the line.

timka86 02-19-2008 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_eh (Post 959993)
best thread on gagt.com in a while, nice work so far

funny reading the "how much to do this" "thats too much!" comments

3000$ isnt a lot of money to spend modding a car...

well most people spend a little here and some there, maybe a grand on wheels 300-500 on exhaust, then another couple hundred on engine mods, then another 100 on pcm, then intake, etc. add that up and that's a couple grand right there. I just spent the same money but for a single goal in mind, basically 300 over the last 6 months to gather all the parts i needed.

thank guys, will keep you posted. Mark, I will def keep you in mind, i still need to do all the pcm work, etc. check you PM's.

GregFarz78 02-19-2008 08:30 AM

Wow nice work finally someone that isnt all talk, more than I would spend on a GA but props to you for doing the research and going thru with it. Keep the mounts in there you'll be vibrating the entire car without them, take the stock mounts and fill them with urethane it stiffens them up a lot but still leaves a little give to absorb some vibration. I filled the mounts on my car 5 years later its still holding up fine

LukeL 02-19-2008 08:37 AM

Looks good. I like these types of threads. Good Read.

timka86 02-19-2008 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregFarz78 (Post 960017)
Wow nice work finally someone that isnt all talk, more than I would spend on a GA but props to you for doing the research and going thru with it. Keep the mounts in there you'll be vibrating the entire car without them, take the stock mounts and fill them with urethane it stiffens them up a lot but still leaves a little give to absorb some vibration. I filled the mounts on my car 5 years later its still holding up fine

thanks, I did just that, i bought 80 A urethane and filled two mounts, one i've been driving with already, and going to use the other for the rear. I think it's a really good DIY, very cost effective vs buying the 150$ aluminum ones, and the results are noticable.

Ajaxus 02-19-2008 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_eh (Post 959993)
best thread on gagt.com in a while, nice work so far

:applause:

Awesome thread, very informative and well structured.

baker07 02-19-2008 02:45 PM

yeah great thread this and the other one u started when the reseach began on this wer dead slow in the shop so it kept me busy all day lol great read. cant wait till u geta video of u driving it then ill have to start mines


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