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-   -   the 6 speed and IL Emissions testing (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75290)

timka86 06-09-2008 08:44 AM

the 6 speed and IL Emissions testing
 
My license plates sticker expires this month and they don't let you get a new on anymore until you pass emissions. I don't have any check engine lights, I disabled the EGR 403, 404, 405 codes from being reported (EGR Delete) and a bunch of transmission codes since I no longer have the automatic.

So I go to emissions and they reject me, the print out says drive for a few days and come back, I had 3 systems say not ready. (EGR Circulaiton, Oxygen something or other, and Catalytic Efficiency). So after some pondering, I thought to try and put my car back into drive (as it was in neutral the whole time) as the system may be set to only run these tests when in drive. I was right, that fixed the Oxygen something or other to say completed. But I still had two more that say not ready.

So yesterday, I plugged in my old EGR valve, without actually installing it, just plugged in the harness and zip-tied it in place. and it fixed my EGR system to say Completed, which leaves me only one more test to complete. The downside is that it threw a P0401 code. But there is good news, I had worried about not passing emissions with the EGR not there. so i did some looking up on the DHP forum. I recalled someone mentioning that not all the systems were required to be ready in order to pass. and I had looked it up online and that's correct.

http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/vim/faq/obd.html
Quote:

A vehicle can have up to twelve monitors built into the OBD computer system. The most common monitors are:

Continuous
Misfire
Fuel System
Comprehensive Components
Non-Continuous
Oxygen Sensor
Heat Oxygen Sensor
Catalyst Efficiency
Evaporative Emissions System
EGR System
Secondary Air System
PCV System


Q. How do readiness monitors affect the automotive repair industry?
A. In the past, technicians routinely cleared codes – either before and/or after performing repairs -- as a routine part of the repair process. Clearing codes resets all monitors to a “not ready” status. Some monitors are easily run during normal driving; however, others can take a long time to run. This can cause problems if the vehicle has to return to a test station for a re-test because vehicles can not be tested if a sufficient number of monitors have not run.

Remember, vehicles are rejected when more than two non-continuous readiness monitors are “not ready” for 1996 to 2000 model year vehicles, or when more than one non-continuous readiness monitor is “not ready” for 2001 and newer model year vehicles. Additionally, the catalyst monitor must be “ready” at the time of any re-test after a vehicle failed an initial test for any catalyst code.

By clearing codes during the repair process, shops and technicians may find themselves in situations where the customer takes the vehicle back to an emissions station for a re-test after repairs have been made, but the vehicle is rejected at the station because a sufficient number of monitors are not ready. Therefore, shops and technicians should seriously reconsider the practice of clearing codes on OBD equipped vehicles when that vehicle has to return for an emissions re-test. Shops can protect their Repair Effectiveness Index (REI) by making sure that a sufficient number of monitors are “ready” and bringing vehicles back for a re-test after repairs are complete. After the vehicle passes the re-test, the vehicle can be returned to the customer.
note, being rejected for emissions testing is not the same as failing the test. Rejected is because the PCM is not ready, fail is when you get a CEL because something is wrong.

The tests themselves only have 2 results, ready and not ready. Now, whether the test was passed or failed will warrant whether you have a CEL and a code thrown.

I thought I'd share this for all, as it applies to automatics too if you have some mods that conflict with emissions.

Graxall 06-09-2008 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timka86 (Post 1003620)
My license plates sticker expires this month and they don't let you get a new on anymore until you pass emissions. I don't have any check engine lights, I disabled the EGR 403, 404, 405 codes from being reported (EGR Delete) and a bunch of transmission codes since I no longer have the automatic.

So I go to emissions and they reject me, the print out says drive for a few days and come back, I had 3 systems say not ready. (EGR Circulaiton, Oxygen something or other, and Catalytic Efficiency). So after some pondering, I thought to try and put my car back into drive (as it was in neutral the whole time) as the system may be set to only run these tests when in drive. I was right, that fixed the Oxygen something or other to say completed. But I still had two more that say not ready.

So yesterday, I plugged in my old EGR valve, without actually installing it, just plugged in the harness and zip-tied it in place. and it fixed my EGR system to say Completed, which leaves me only one more test to complete. The downside is that it threw a P0401 code. But there is good news, I had worried about not passing emissions with the EGR not there. so i did some looking up on the DHP forum. I recalled someone mentioning that not all the systems were required to be ready in order to pass. and I had looked it up online and that's correct.

http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/vim/faq/obd.html


note, being rejected for emissions testing is not the same as failing the test. Rejected is because the PCM is not ready, fail is when you get a CEL because something is wrong.

The tests themselves only have 2 results, ready and not ready. Not whether the test was passed or failed will warrant whether you have a CEL and a code thrown.

I thought I'd share this for all, as it applies to automatics too if you have some mods that conflict with emissions.

So basically your car hats you for tearing it apart haha...good luck.

you said you didnt "fail" but do you still get the 45day pass to complete the errors? Because if you dont, and get pulled over without hte 45day pass, your beat.

timka86 06-09-2008 08:50 AM

well i have until the end of the month to pass. so I don't need that pass just yet.

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 09:13 AM

Hmm I"m gonna have to remember this when I go in for testing. So has anyone else passed IL emissions with no cat monitor o2 and egr delete?

I think I'll be holding onto my egr vavle for the time being...

timka86 06-09-2008 09:24 AM

I'm going to take apart the EGR valve at some point to see if I can make a simulator out of it. to make the PCM think that it's there and working so all the tests are run properly and no CEL are thrown.

homeskillit37 06-09-2008 10:13 AM

I didn't realize states actually checked for those things. Here you give them $10 and they check your lights drive it around in a circle and your done. If you go there for repairs a lot the just give you the sticker and a razor blade. About the only thing they will fail you for is a really bad cracked windshield because it is noticeable

timka86 06-09-2008 10:28 AM

a cracked winshield will get you a ticket here, our stickers are 87$ per car. and they do check if your car has anything wrong with it. CEL's etc. Someone mentioned last week about a wrong VIN being programmed into his PCM and the state caught it. his PCM vin, didn't match his car VIN.

SpyhunteR 06-09-2008 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeskillit37 (Post 1003635)
I didn't realize states actually checked for those things. Here you give them $10 and they check your lights drive it around in a circle and your done. If you go there for repairs a lot the just give you the sticker and a razor blade. About the only thing they will fail you for is a really bad cracked windshield because it is noticeable

we don't live in the backwoods where everybody is related to one another.

homeskillit37 06-09-2008 02:39 PM

I come from the suburbs of St. Louis and Kansas City. I'm Just here now. The only good thing about this state is they don't care how many tickets you get as long you keep up your payment plan with the city you get to keep your license. We don't have that point system. And t hey just want your $10 a year for an inspection.

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 03:40 PM

Ya know I hate to say it, especially cuz I have the egr delete too, but if its that much of a pain, why not reinstall the egr and associated parts? It won't affect performance as it really only activates under cruising. Granted though I myself am in no rush to drop $60 on a new tube

silvergtjrad 06-09-2008 04:09 PM

I just had a problem with passing emissions also. IF you are deleting codes before you go test, that is your problem. I was doing that and I failed twice. Just make sure you drive at least 60 miles, 40 or so being highway, before testing again. After you remove DTCs it resets all the monitors, which need to run again or they will come up as not ready on emissions. Thats all that it sounds like to me.

BTW, ive got an EGR delete, and my rear O2 is also disabled.

lvemy3100 06-09-2008 04:19 PM

http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle.html

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergtjrad (Post 1003704)
I just had a problem with passing emissions also. IF you are deleting codes before you go test, that is your problem. I was doing that and I failed twice. Just make sure you drive at least 60 miles, 40 or so being highway, before testing again. After you remove DTCs it resets all the monitors, which need to run again or they will come up as not ready on emissions. Thats all that it sounds like to me.

BTW, ive got an EGR delete, and my rear O2 is also disabled.

Hmm I hadn't thought of that. So basically it doesn't matter if the devices are there or not, just so long as those conditions are met? I suppose that makes sense as the comp would be testing for these items in the long run. The only difference would be that on a regular comp they would set a code whereas on my pcm for example, the code simply wouldn't be reported since the reporting is turned off. Now I'm tempted to try my car just for laughs. I'd think all my monitors are good by now...

timka86 06-09-2008 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone_wolf025 (Post 1003723)
Hmm I hadn't thought of that. So basically it doesn't matter if the devices are there or not, just so long as those conditions are met? I suppose that makes sense as the comp would be testing for these items in the long run. The only difference would be that on a regular comp they would set a code whereas on my pcm for example, the code simply wouldn't be reported since the reporting is turned off. Now I'm tempted to try my car just for laughs. I'd think all my monitors are good by now...

correct. but here's the thing, it seems the condition for EGR flow cannot be met without an EGR valve present. but as mentioned in my first post, if that's the only system "NOT READY" they'll still pass you. If you get any old OBDII code reader, well i'm sure most of them do it, but my dad's tells me which system's are ready and which aren't. So I know which systems I need to fix AND if i'm ready to pass emissions without them sending me home.

also I found this great little tool online, http://www.obddiagnostics.com/ their software is free, but the box you can either purchase from them, or they have a free wiring diagram and you can build your own, i purchased. and their software is pretty good as far as readings and things on the GO, even graphs O2 sensors, etc. you can read and clear codes and it also tells you whether you're PCM is ready for emissions and singles out each system.

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 09:30 PM

Ahh I see. So is your cat monitor o2 sensor the other item holding you up or is it a matter of the trans stuff?

silvergtjrad 06-09-2008 09:32 PM

Im holding my emissions pass certificate in my hand right now, showing EGR flow ready, and no EGR on my car. The only thing not ready is catalytic converter efficiency. Everything else is either ready, or not supported

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergtjrad (Post 1003822)
Im holding my emissions pass certificate in my hand right now, showing EGR flow ready, and no EGR on my car. The only thing not ready is catalytic converter efficiency. Everything else is either ready, or not supported

Hmm. And yet ANOTHER plot twist...fascinating! Well in my case I have an o2 sensor that can work, sitting in my hi-flo currently. Only reason its not working is cuz I'm too lazy to rewire it all and it has a short little pigtail. One of these days I'll hook it up and ask Mark to temporarily turn the code reporting on for that one just for kicks.

Panacea 06-09-2008 10:24 PM

Wait, what? Illinois has emissions testing? Since when? Or is this some stupid Chicago only law?

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 10:27 PM

lol Since forever and a day ago. New cars get a 4 year exemption as I recall. Then its every 2 years after that... I think...

Panacea 06-09-2008 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lone_wolf025 (Post 1003856)
lol Since forever and a day ago. New cars get a 4 year exemption as I recall. Then its every 2 years after that... I think...

I had my grand am for 8 years and not once did I have an inspection... I think you guys are on crack.

Edit: Looks like it's East St. Louis and Chicago only. Sucks to be you guys.

lone_wolf025 06-09-2008 10:38 PM

Maybe its just required for heavy populated areas? I dunno...

silvergtjrad 06-10-2008 04:51 AM

it depends what county you are in

timka86 06-10-2008 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvergtjrad (Post 1003822)
Im holding my emissions pass certificate in my hand right now, showing EGR flow ready, and no EGR on my car. The only thing not ready is catalytic converter efficiency. Everything else is either ready, or not supported

well for some reason, mine wouldn't show EGR flow, could have been the fact that it was in Neutral instead of drive. But besides that one, the catalytic converter efficiency is the only other one that wont say ready either. I had to erase P0401 yesterday, so all my systems reset, hopefully by the time i drive home after work today, they're ready. I'll let you know.

lightningGA 06-10-2008 06:40 PM

interesting....wonder if I'll pass next month when my inspection is up (NYs test is every year).

99gav6 06-11-2008 03:04 PM

I live in Granite City, just east of st louis and i had mine done last year, i failed the first time due to a bad o2 sensor, the guy there checked under my car because it was loud, he wanted to make sure my cat was still there.

timka86 06-13-2008 05:24 PM

I passed Emissions today, with the P0401 Disabled, EGR plugged in, but not connected to exhaust/intake manifolds. 2 systems still said not ready, but as said in my first post, 00' and earlier that qualifies :)

Good luck to the rest of you!


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