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-   -   Camshaft position sensor replacement (http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89105)

jlocher1 01-16-2013 03:16 PM

Camshaft position sensor replacement
 
Does anyone have any instructions on how to replace the camshaft positioning sensor on a 2002 grand am gt 3.4? My car is starting to sputter pretty bad at low rpms and that is the only engine code showing. Thank you in advance for any help

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlocher1 (Post 1200497)
Does anyone have any instructions on how to replace the camshaft positioning sensor on a 2002 grand am gt 3.4? My car is starting to sputter pretty bad at low rpms and that is the only engine code showing. Thank you in advance for any help

support engine with jack
remove front engine mount (on timing cover)
remove belt
remove power steering pump from timing cover, leave lines attached, lay to side on strut tower
remove 8mm bolt holding cam sensor in, disconnect cam sensor
use small screwdriver or pick to remove cam sensor, get it to rotate first, then pry upwards and pull
install new cam sensor
but everything back together

kzulfic 01-16-2013 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34 (Post 1200502)
support engine with jack
remove front engine mount (on timing cover)
remove belt
remove power steering pump from timing cover, leave lines attached, lay to side on strut tower
remove 8mm bolt holding cam sensor in, disconnect cam sensor
use small screwdriver or pick to remove cam sensor, get it to rotate first, then pry upwards and pull
install new cam sensor
but everything back together

Exactly, but it is possible to get the PS pump out without removing the motor mount. Just need a swivel ratchet, and swivel socket. I've never taken the motor mount out other than changing the belt.

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzulfic (Post 1200504)
Exactly, but it is possible to get the PS pump out without removing the motor mount. Just need a swivel ratchet, and swivel socket. I've never taken the motor mount out other than changing the belt.

you have to remove the belt to take the ps pump off, might as well take the mount off. taking the two 15mm nuts off takes about 1.5 seconds, gives you more room to work with to get lower bolt out of ps.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34 (Post 1200505)
you have to remove the belt to take the ps pump off, might as well take the mount off. taking the two 15mm nuts off takes about 1.5 seconds, gives you more room to work with to get lower bolt out of ps.

I was just thinking if they don't need to remove the belt they can let lay there. Either way it's right, I just grew up working for my dad in his shop, so any where i can save time or cut out a step with the different tooling I do. If I can keep from crwaling around on the ground too I do. Just my .02.

AaronGTR 01-16-2013 07:13 PM

No, you can't get the power steering pump off without removing the engine mount (or at least the top plate anyway). It is in the way of being able get a socket in the hole to remove the third bolt that holds the pump on. There is not way around it, you have to take off the top plate, the belt, and the pump. It's really not that hard though.


Once those are out of the way you can get to the cam sensor on top of the block. The cam sensor is one of three sensors along with the two crank position sensors that coordinate ignition timing and injector pulses, so I'm not surprised you are having idle issues if you have a code for that sensor. Better replace it before it gets worse.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR (Post 1200516)
No, you can't get the power steering pump off without removing the engine mount (or at least the top plate anyway). It is in the way of being able get a socket in the hole to remove the third bolt that holds the pump on. There is not way around it, you have to take off the top plate, the belt, and the pump. It's really not that hard though.


Once those are out of the way you can get to the cam sensor on top of the block. The cam sensor is one of three sensors along with the two crank position sensors that coordinate ignition timing and injector pulses, so I'm not surprised you are having idle issues if you have a code for that sensor. Better replace it before it gets worse.

Yes you can. I have personally done it. Now that I recall you have to remove one bolt on the mount. The one that's closest to the radiator.

AaronGTR 01-16-2013 07:35 PM

No you can't. You have to use a 13mm deep 3/8 drive socket to get in there, and you can't do it with the plate in place. At least not on my 3400 :rolleyes: and I've probably taken out my PS pump about 100 more times than you have.

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 07:41 PM

i know you can do it if you take the bolt off, but leave the plate. you can have a 13mm in there at a slight angle, and it can take it out. like i said though, just remove the mount, makes it a lot easier, especially for a novice. so just remove the two vertical 18mm bolts at the mount, and the two nuts that hold the mount to the frame-rail.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR (Post 1200522)
No you can't. You have to use a 13mm deep 3/8 drive socket to get in there, and you can't do it with the plate in place. At least not on my 3400 :rolleyes: and I've probably taken out my PS pump about 100 more times than you have.

Doesn't matter how many times you've done it, still doesn't mean you can't. I have done it. I don't need to sit here, and lie about something so stupid. I am not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, but in this case I know what I did, and it worked. I am mearly just stating my personal experience. All I'm doing is trying to offer other options. I say we just agree to disagree, no harm do just some helpful tips for the OP.

Yes, Mike your explanation would be best for beginners. I just found it easier to not go through all that.

AaronGTR 01-16-2013 08:06 PM

Well like I said, I've tried it and it doesn't work on mine. You can get a socket in the hole but you can't get it to sit square, and there isn't room to get a ratchet on it. There has to be room for the head to fit in there.


Anyway like Mike said it's probably easier to do it the other way. Personally I'd rather not risk rounding off the head of a bolt by having the socket on an angle. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 08:16 PM

There's a smart way too. Just because you couldn't figure it out(swivel socket, and extension) doesn't mean It's wrong.

You don't need a deep socket to do this get a shallow with a swivel, and the knuckle of the swivel will be right inside the pulley leaving it free to turn, and dead on the bolt head.

AaronGTR 01-16-2013 08:52 PM

I generally don't use swivels unless I absolutely have to. They don't work that well, you can't apply a lot of force to them (if the bolt is tight), and you can't accurately torque a bolt with one since they deflect some of the force. Like I said, right and wrong way. IMO that's the wrong one.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 08:57 PM

Well, the PS bolts aren't that tight anyways, but I'm not here trying to make enemies, just trying to help out.

Like I said before let's agree to disagree.

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 09:15 PM

always multiple ways to solve a problem. do whatever fits your mechanic style/tools.

i have a set of snap-on deep swivels, $300 but love em. personally i don't like to use them on my swivel-head ratchet (which is my ratchet of choice) atleast without an extension in there, but team up those swivels with a powerful 3/8" IR air ratchet, and watch book-time get decimated.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34 (Post 1200554)
always multiple ways to solve a problem. do whatever fits your mechanic style/tools.

i have a set of snap-on deep swivels, $300 but love em. personally i don't like to use them on my swivel-head ratchet (which is my ratchet of choice) atleast without an extension in there, but team up those swivels with a powerful 3/8" IR air ratchet, and watch book-time get decimated.

Haha, I love your choice in tools, was my dads too. I inherited all his stuff when he passed, and I wouldn't choose any other.

IR is great, but when they started mixing plastic parts into their tools, They kinda went down hill. Stuff broke to easy, but I haven't seen any of their recent products yet, so I don't know if that was changed.

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzulfic (Post 1200558)
Haha, I love your choice in tools, was my dads too. I inherited all his stuff when he passed, and I wouldn't choose any other.

IR is great, but when they started mixing plastic parts into their tools, They kinda went down hill. Stuff broke to easy, but I haven't seen any of their recent products yet, so I don't know if that was changed.

this is the one i have ... http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/buy...air-tools.html

when it comes to air tools, I buy all IR. I have titanium 1/2" and 3/8" impacts, that ultra duty ratchet, a 90 degree air drill, a 90 degree grinder for gasket removal, a 1/4" drive that hauls ass. If you don't watch it, that 3/8's air ratchet will torque and throw your hand into something, it's got some nuts.

i've had those impacts for years, probably getting on 10 years, no issues yet for the 1/2", the 3/8's got stuck in reverse, ended up being something with the button, but all in all couldn't be happier. the 3/8's air ratchet has seen about 5 years of hard use without issue, the 1/4" gets used here and there. don't use it much, but very handy for small stuff like 3800 ICM harness bolt to ICM, or 3400 MAP sensor bolts.

that ratchet i use is the Snap-On swivel-head, I use it for everything. I don't work on cars without it. When people borrow it, they either love it or hate it. Newbs always try to use it one-handed which doesn't work out well, which is why they hate it. I always catch the same people using my deep swivels on the end of the swivel-head ratchet, and they wonder why they bust their nuckles every time.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34 (Post 1200561)
this is the one i have ... http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/buy...air-tools.html

when it comes to air tools, I buy all IR. I have titanium 1/2" and 3/8" impacts, that ultra duty ratchet, a 90 degree air drill, a 90 degree grinder for gasket removal, a 1/4" drive that hauls ass. If you don't watch it, that 3/8's air ratchet will torque and throw your hand into something, it's got some nuts.

i've had those impacts for years, probably getting on 10 years, no issues yet for the 1/2", the 3/8's got stuck in reverse, ended up being something with the button, but all in all couldn't be happier. the 3/8's air ratchet has seen about 5 years of hard use without issue, the 1/4" gets used here and there. don't use it much, but very handy for small stuff like 3800 ICM harness bolt to ICM, or 3400 MAP sensor bolts.

that ratchet i use is the Snap-On swivel-head, I use it for everything. I don't work on cars without it. When people borrow it, they either love it or hate it. Newbs always try to use it one-handed which doesn't work out well, which is why they hate it. I always catch the same people using my deep swivels on the end of the swivel-head ratchet, and they wonder why they bust their nuckles every time.

How's the composite holding up? All the older ones I've seen crack really easy. Maybe just a design flaw back then.

I use the same ratchet, I traded my older one in for the newer style one, and I love it. The gearing in it is just awsome! It has 80 teeth, so those stubborn bolts that are to tough for your hand, but not enough room to get a click out of the ratchet, are no problem. I also have the 1/2" drive, and the straight head ones also.

On another note for ripping dashes apart, and other 1/4" drive worthy things, this is my tool of choice. http://www.milwaukeetool.com/tools/c...et-kit/2456-21. Did the heater core in my blazer in 3 1/2 hours with it. Mind you I was more concerned about my beer getting to warm than working on the truck.lollol

MilzyZ34 01-16-2013 11:21 PM

i like how the link shows a pic of the guy working on a 97-98 malibu 3100 with the tool. i could see something like that working well with interior stuff, especially tight spaces. I'm considering getting one of those small impact drivers snap-on has for interior stuff, but could never justify $150 or whatever they wanted when I don't do that kind of work.

If you can afford it, the Snap-On cordless 3/8" impact kicks a**. good for double-teaming a job so you don't have to share air. has good torque too. 230ft-lbs for a little cordless ain't too shabby. $435 price tag ain't great, but gotta pay to play.

the composite is fine, no issues what-so-ever.

kzulfic 01-16-2013 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34 (Post 1200579)
i like how the link shows a pic of the guy working on a 97-98 malibu 3100 with the tool. i could see something like that working well with interior stuff, especially tight spaces. I'm considering getting one of those small impact drivers snap-on has for interior stuff, but could never justify $150 or whatever they wanted when I don't do that kind of work.

If you can afford it, the Snap-On cordless 3/8" impact kicks a**. good for double-teaming a job so you don't have to share air. has good torque too. 230ft-lbs for a little cordless ain't too shabby. $435 price tag ain't great, but gotta pay to play.

the composite is fine, no issues what-so-ever.

Haha, ya I thought that was interesting. Honestly it has more than payed for it self. I use it anywhere I can.

230ft lbs isn't bad at all, for a cordless. I've been meaning to get a nice cordless, but I'm trying to get my car back into shape by spring, so thats taking up all my extra money lately.

Glad they're holding up for you the 4" grinder i have with the composite is all cracked where it meets the aluminum. It still works just has couple wraps of electrical tape around it.


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