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Old 10-11-2010, 12:14 PM   #1
kprower
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LIM gasket with 3500 head upgrade

I have the classic LIM leak with oil in the coolant at 112k on my 2004. What started out as a repair has turned into a 3400 with 3500 top end upgrade. I have a few questions though:
1. Since the heads/manifolds are going to be off I am considering headers. Will they work with the stock exhaust? Would it be worth it to do since it will be torn down or will the stock exhaust rob any power gains?
2. Do I need to reprogram my PCM with 3500 heads? Where to/how to do this/cost? (Been a pre-60ís car guy for years so minimal PCM/OBD experience.)
3. Below is what I am looking at for parts, does it look like I missing anything?
Coolant temp sensor G6 (AC Delco)
Temp extender (WOT)
Fender well CAI
65mm TB (?WOT?)
3400 block
3400 head gasket (Fel-Pro)
3500 heads (WOT)
New head bolts (Fel-Pro)
3500 LIM gasket (Fel-Pro)
3500 LIM ported (WOT)
3400 UIM gasket (Fel-pro)
3400 UIM ported (WOT)
Exhaust Manifold Gaskets (Fel-pro)
Exhaust manifold bolts (Fel-Pro)
Thermostat w/ new thermostat o-ring (Stant SuperStat)
Radiator/Heater/TB hoses (Gates)
Waterpump (Cardine severe duty)
12 fuel injector o-rings (Fel-Pro)
Thread Sealant
RTV sealant
EGR gaskets
?3400 Valve cover gaskets? (Fel-Pro)
New hose clamps to replace the old ones
6 liters of Dexcool antifreeze
5 liters oil
Vertical oil filter adapter (GM 12578893)
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kprower View Post
3400 head gasket (Fel-Pro)
Horrible idea. Get the 2003 Graphite Gasket.
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Old 10-12-2010, 12:21 AM   #3
AaronGTR
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AaronGTR has made plenty of valid pointsAaronGTR has made plenty of valid points
If you're doing a 3500 top end swap, headers would be an excellent idea. Stock 3400 manifolds are restrictive on a stock 3400 and much more so than 3500 manifolds, so without headers you won't get the most out of the 3500 heads. However, the stock exhaust is pretty restrictive as well and is .25" smaller diameter than the outlet of the headers. You'll want to replace the exhaust as well (at least as soon as possible) or you won't be getting the most out of it.

You will definitely need new valve cover gaskets, as they expand when they get hot and are very hard if not impossible to re-use since they don't want to stay in the groove when you re-install them. I'd also stick with the 2003+ GM graphite head gaskets, they are pretty reliable for most uses and not really prone to failure.

The 65mm TB.... probably don't really need it for this setup... it would just be an "extra" for future power increases.

As for the cooling system stuff like the water pump, hoses, T-stat, etc... is there a reason you want to replace all those? Do you know for sure any of them are failing or does your car have really high miles? Otherwise I wouldn't replace all that. Since you have an '04 you should have the newest design of water pump already. I'd just run some coolant system flush through it once it's all back together, drain it and run clean water through it, then drain again refill with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and long life antifreeze.
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Old 10-13-2010, 05:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronGTR View Post
If you're doing a 3500 top end swap, headers would be an excellent idea. Stock 3400 manifolds are restrictive on a stock 3400 and much more so than 3500 manifolds, so without headers you won't get the most out of the 3500 heads. However, the stock exhaust is pretty restrictive as well and is .25" smaller diameter than the outlet of the headers. You'll want to replace the exhaust as well (at least as soon as possible) or you won't be getting the most out of it.

You will definitely need new valve cover gaskets, as they expand when they get hot and are very hard if not impossible to re-use since they don't want to stay in the groove when you re-install them. I'd also stick with the 2003+ GM graphite head gaskets, they are pretty reliable for most uses and not really prone to failure.

The 65mm TB.... probably don't really need it for this setup... it would just be an "extra" for future power increases.

As for the cooling system stuff like the water pump, hoses, T-stat, etc... is there a reason you want to replace all those? Do you know for sure any of them are failing or does your car have really high miles? Otherwise I wouldn't replace all that. Since you have an '04 you should have the newest design of water pump already. I'd just run some coolant system flush through it once it's all back together, drain it and run clean water through it, then drain again refill with a 50/50 mix of distilled water and long life antifreeze.
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Old 10-13-2010, 09:10 AM   #5
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I figured since the engine had 112000 on it, and it was going to be that far apart for gaskets, may as well and do the hoses/water pump to prevent me having to go back in to it a few months later.
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Old 10-13-2010, 04:49 PM   #6
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AaronGTR has made plenty of valid pointsAaronGTR has made plenty of valid points
That's not that many miles. Not enough that your water pump should be worn out anyway as long as you have kept up with scheduled coolant changes (5 years or 60k miles). I got almost 150,000 miles out of the water pump on my grand prix and the previous owner didn't even take good care of the car. I say if it's not leaking, don't mess with it.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:51 AM   #7
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Good feedback, Thanks Aaron, no use wasting the cash.

Anybody know how/where to tune the PCM/OBD?
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:34 PM   #8
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MP racing, Milzy Motorsports, I think WOT-tech will be offering some tuning services soon as well? If you are good with computers and understand enough about how the engine computer works, you can buy a HPtuners or a used DHP setup that will let you tailor your own programs and flash them to the PCM. There is a steep learning curve though. Or I might be able to help you depending on what exactly you need done and where in FL you are. I've helped a few people around here.
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