David's N/A Build Thread

[stewartfn18]

Originally Posted by silvergtjrad

Nice! You will be really happy with the results from these on a budget build.

oh they are still getting ported. yea i took into account what you said about them unported so they have to be 10 times better ported. Question though, do i have to use a 3500 lower or can i use a 3400

[Vegeta]

3500 lower only. What is so bad about the stock head that they have to be 10 times better ported?

[stewartfn18]

Originally Posted by Vegeta

3500 lower only. What is so bad about the stock head that they have to be 10 times better ported?

i didnt say they were bad unported. I was merely stating that if they are better than 3400 heads stock, then they must be 10 times better ported.

[Vegeta]

Oh yeah, compared to stock 3400 heads yes. I thought you meant stock 3500 vs ported 3500. 10 times would be insane:P

[stewartfn18]

i receivedmy cam today. i want thank ben from WOT Tech for his support during my first big purchase from MPR and WOT Tech

[stewartfn18]

Update: it was nice out yesterday so i installed the cam. Lubed everything, even the lobes. And my heads came in today. With my second job i should be able to get the rest of the small things that i need for a complete engine. and im picking up ANOTHER bottom end from Timka86 for the crank, pistons and sensors. decided to buy the tb 28lb/hr injectors to but have to save a little for those, im getting them from a member on here, eventually. headers wont be until the spring though when i recieve my tax return.

[gectek]

didnt come with valves did they?

[stewartfn18]

i dont know yet, im at work and all my mom told me was that they came. Ill see when i get home and let ya know.

[stewartfn18]

UPDATE: well i picked up the bottom end from timka86, mainly for the pistons, but the relitivly new sensors and seals are cool too. anyway i got the 6 pistons in my block and turned the crank ever so slightly to make sure everything was kosher, it was. well, when i torqed all of the connecting rods down, i tried to turn the crank again, nothing. I lubed everything, and imean everything, cylinder walls, crank journals both for the mains and connecting rods, and ALL of the bearings. is it possible that they were just overtorqed? that would be my only guess. I only have an inch pound torque wrench, the specs are 17 ft/lbs + 77*. i had my wrench set at 180 in/lbs and then i did the 77*. is that right or did i do something wrong? any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[AaronGTR]

My guess is there is something wrong with the rod journal/bearing/crank journal size. If they are too tight and you torque them down they might not let the engine turn over. Having not torn down the internals of an engine by myself yet, I can't tell you for sure... but I seem to recall reading that there is a certain amount of clearance required in the bearing tolerances. I think you are supposed to torque them down with this stuff called plasti-gauge between the bearing and crank journal and then take it apart and measure the thickness of the compressed plastic with a micrometer and see if the clearance is within specs. I'm sure someone else will chime in with more info...


Thats part of why I haven't done my internals yet though. I know it's not just a matter of grab the parts and throw them in and bolt everything together. You need special measuring tools and there are special procedures to follow, otherwise you'll end up trashing your engine.

[stewartfn18]

well all of the bearings are new so i dunno. and i do recall using that thin little what ever it is to measure clearance when i leared all of this in H.S, but i thought that was just for when you a rebuilding with used parts to make sure that the bearings and stuff arent worn down too much to reuse them. thanks for the reply though.

[cncguy]

The thin stuff is Plastigage and you use it to measure bearing clearance. Clearance should be checked whenever you build an engine to ensure everything is correct. It is good practice to check the clearances when you assemble an engine. Even if everything is brand new, you can receive a defective part. About a month ago I bought a set of Sealed Power cam bearings that was defective. Three of the bearing were right but the front journal bearing was .010" undersize.

As for your engine being locked up, I can think of a couple of things that could do it. Perhaps you received bearings for an undersize crank or a rod cap got put on the wrong rod or backwards.

[gectek]

yah, it is all based on tolerances for the manuf. even if you need an .001 undersize bearing...that could make all the difference in the world. get the plastigauge and measure with it. dont question it. there is a ruler on the side to show you the crush.

[stewartfn18]

alright i gotta pick up some torx bits today so ill just buy this plasigage too. can anyone tell me what the toleraces are?

[gectek]

http://www.60degreev6.com/content/34...Specifications

main bearing clearances, rod bearing clearances...usually the 3rd thrust bearing is ok though

[AaronGTR]

Oh, and when you're doing something as important as torquing rod bolts, don't guess at the torque. Get the right kind of torque wrench to make sure it's right! Even better would be to get the tool that measures rod bolt stretch (called a dial caliper or something?). That's really the proper way to do it is torque the bolts to a certain stretch point, or so I've heard.

[gectek]

no its called a rod bolt stretch gauge, but if you are using the ARP rod bolts, they arent like the GM ones and should be torqued according to what ARP recommends. they arent a tq to yield like the stock GMs are. the other tool for the tq to yeild would be the torque angle gauge...but seriously, who cannot guess what 77* is? even if you go over, itll be what at 80? 3 to 6 oclock is 90...so not so much 90. of course i used the arp spec b/c i used their bolts. either way use the manuf reference

[stewartfn18]

Thanks for the help guys. Well i took 2 steps forward today and 10 steps back. I got the crank to spin with all 6 pistons torqued( cool, so i can move on to getting the timing set on). Well i had to go to autozone to get a timing cover gasket set, come back home ~45 min later. As is was trying to line up the sprockets correctly, i went to turn the crank again, nothin. So i keep trying to get it to turn and BAM, the crank bolt snaps. So i had to take everything apart again and now i have to see what i can do about trying to get the rest of the bolt out of the crank. So i have a question. Is the crank useless now or can a machine shop get it out? The other crank i have is already toast because it spun a bearing and carved grooves into the front main journal. Any help is, as always, appreciated.

[Vegeta]

Yes it can be removed at a machine shop and be usable. Sucks though, especially if it won't turn the crank and breaks that bolt. Something isn't right.

[stewartfn18]

I gotta get a better torque wrench and i think im going to buy the ARP connecting rod bolts since everything is out AGAIN(ugh) anyway. the pistons im using are from a block that timka86 sold me. ~41k on the pistons and wrist pins, but the connecting rods are original, 11x,xxx i believe so maybe the bolts are streched or something. I was really getting impacient and want this thing done so i rushed, but that broken bolt really put me in my place. i wnated this done by march and i was really pushing it to get all the little stuff so i could save to have everything ported, but im in no hurry now.