Say Farewell to Pontiac

[FastSteve]

Originally Posted by notsoaveragej0e

They killed the brand because it was bleeding money, and was the least profitable relative to the other brands. Did they make a few great products? Sure. The sad truth, however, is that they just couldnt sell enough of the "good" to pay for the "bad."

To that note, a "real" offer was never made... those dealers were just trying one last ditch effort to save their own asses. Car dealers are wealthy, but there are none out there that can afford to buy Pontiac- not even a dealer group (with the exception of Penske and one or two others). The whole point of this reorganization is to make GM smaller and more nimble; it's pretty hard to do that when you also have to balance making sure this group of people who have never built cars, only sold them, is taking over one of the brands and still using factories and dealerships GM is trying to shut down.

As far as that member mentioning the depreciation of his "fleet of firebirds," I hate to inform him but its likely very few cars made by Pontiac will hold much value once the brand is gone. The exception here, obviously is cars that are already considered "classic" Like GTO's, old Firebirds, etc. IMO, the only late model cars that will be considered "classic" will be 04-06 GTO's, GXP G8's, and the hardtop Solstice GXP. All of these models were low production and for limited years... Firebirds were built at a much higher number, and the quality was never all that great (IMO).

In response here is something I posted on the other forum. As you can tell by some of the body of it, talk as come up about Buick and China. Goin off of this

As most of you can tell I am not a big fan of Car & Driver even though I subscribe to the magazine. (Get it only for the hard numbers.) A reader wrote in with this statement. According to Automotive News for the calendar-year 2008 Buick sold 137,197 vehicles. While on the other hand Pontiac sold almost twice as many vehicles with 267,348 units. Now he does not state weither said numbers are world wide or only in NA.

Now most of C&D's responses are either of the tongue/check or smart azz type. So their response to the statements of this "flawed" thinking by the reader of putting the "weaker" brand at the front and Pontiac as a niche brand at the time this was written is "Perhaps GM is betting that a billion Chinese will hold fast to the folklore of their ancestors that Buicks are the real Cadillacs of the West."

If these numbers are correct I can only think that GM must be figuring that Buick is going to sell in very large numbers in China. If these numbers are correct and GM does not expect Buick to sell like KMART Blue Light Special then you can see how calling Buick a CORE BRAND and not Pontiac does not make sense.

Can anyone shed some light on the above numbers?

[Ajaxus]

First hit on Google to the above question:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12801549/

Buick’s sizzling sales have driven General Motors — even as it closes plants and lays off workers at home — to the top of the pack in China, the world’s fastest-growing automobile market. GM sold 665,000 cars and trucks in China last year. For now, only 1 in 100 Chinese own a car, compared to 9 in 10 in the United States. But the Chinese expect 130 million vehicles to be sold by 2020.

In fact, GM now sells more cars overseas than it does at home.

Nearly 1 in 7 cars sold here is made by GM, just seven years after it opened its first dealership. The company recently added a second plant in Shanghai and plans to open 150 new Chevrolet dealerships, expanding its Chinese workforce to 20,000.

That would be the meat of the article..you can search around for more numbers if you want that breaks it down more.

I just typed "Buick sales figures China" into google and got some nice hits.

[FastSteve]

Those are big numbers.

[Tank]

Now that Pontiac is done u think the GA will be a collectors item?

[Mike Jung]

Originally Posted by Tank

Now that Pontiac is done u think the GA will be a collectors item?

Yeah, a junk collector

I don't think there will be too many Pontiac's as a collectors' item.
Except currently, maybe the Solstice GXP & G8 GXP; if that.

[notsoaveragej0e]

Originally Posted by FastSteve

In response here is something I posted on the other forum. As you can tell by some of the body of it, talk as come up about Buick and China. Goin off of this

As most of you can tell I am not a big fan of Car & Driver even though I subscribe to the magazine. (Get it only for the hard numbers.) A reader wrote in with this statement. According to Automotive News for the calendar-year 2008 Buick sold 137,197 vehicles. While on the other hand Pontiac sold almost twice as many vehicles with 267,348 units. Now he does not state weither said numbers are world wide or only in NA.

Now most of C&D's responses are either of the tongue/check or smart azz type. So their response to the statements of this "flawed" thinking by the reader of putting the "weaker" brand at the front and Pontiac as a niche brand at the time this was written is "Perhaps GM is betting that a billion Chinese will hold fast to the folklore of their ancestors that Buicks are the real Cadillacs of the West."

If these numbers are correct I can only think that GM must be figuring that Buick is going to sell in very large numbers in China. If these numbers are correct and GM does not expect Buick to sell like KMART Blue Light Special then you can see how calling Buick a CORE BRAND and not Pontiac does not make sense.

Can anyone shed some light on the above numbers?

My guess is that the margins are higher on a buick. For example, they might make 10% on a Pontiac, and 20% on a Buick. Since both brands are bringing in the same profit, it makes sense to shut down the one with higher output, because that means less workers, less factories, and a lower overall overhead cost.

But yes, it's also because GM knows they are going to (and already have) sold very large numbers of Buicks in China.

[FastSteve]

Originally Posted by notsoaveragej0e

My guess is that the margins are higher on a buick. For example, they might make 10% on a Pontiac, and 20% on a Buick. Since both brands are bringing in the same profit, it makes sense to shut down the one with higher output, because that means less workers, less factories, and a lower overall overhead cost.

But yes, it's also because GM knows they are going to (and already have) sold very large numbers of Buicks in China.

Thanks for the info. From a business stance that makes sense what you are saying. I am guessing the margins are higher because Buick can be sold more as a premium brand then Pontiac.

[Ajaxus]

I'm guessing a certain someone is pissed they gave up certain sc/t concept originals...since those are the only pieces of the Grand Am that will ever be worth anything,

[PhantomLover007]

Yep. For whomever got the SC/T at the Barrett-Jackson auction, the value just went up for a make that's no longer in business...

[FastSteve]

Something I posted on the F-Body forum. And considering what some have said about MAYBE Pontiac returning somewhere down the road.


Now please dont flame me about this idea. If you dont believe in it thats your right. However it can not hurt. Maybe we could get Pontiac back somewhere down the road. Yes I understand that it is very unlikely and a very long shot. I get that.

Take the time to write or email GM. Not to blast them or tell them how stupid they are. Just let them know that you have appreciated the Pontiac brand and are sad to see it go. Let them know you understand it was a difficult decision and that you understand there are people within GM that also are sad to see Pontiac go. Let them know that if they were to bring Pontiac back sometime in the future that you would support the brand.

Now if you choose to do this dont try to overwhelm them with letters. Dont send them something everyday or even once a week or month. Once or twice a year I would think is good. Dont be afraid to mention that you have sent them something before. That you are just touching base with them to let them know you still think about the Pontiac brand. Also dont be afraid to send them a few (dont go crazy) pictures from any Pontiac shows you go to and a short note about the event. Let them know there are people out there enjoying their Pontiac vehicle and still supporting the brand even after the tough loose of the brand.

This can be done now and after Pontiac turns the lights out for the last time it can still be done with just a little change of what you are writing. Remember GM is a business that is trying to survive and make a profit. When they are looking at ways to better the company one thing they are going to look at is what customers are looking for. If they feel Pontiac could return a profit in the future they may consider turning the lights back on one day.

Again please dont flame for this. If you dont agree that is fine. Dont do this. The most people have to lose is 15-25 minutes a year in time to write GM. The worse that happens is nothing. Pontiac doesnt have a rebirth. If nothing else it lets GM know that you have appreciated the years of Pontiac that they gave us. It might help give a little smile to someone within GM that didnt want to see Pontiac go when they read the joy it brought to people during it run.

[Panacea]

Seriously Steve, let it go. You're starting to remind me of that Sheehan woman. It's done and over with. Move on.

[RPO3]

Anyone have a pic or vid of that Sc/t???
Would be neat to see

[FastSteve]

Originally Posted by Panacea

Seriously Steve, let it go. You're starting to remind me of that Sheehan woman. It's done and over with. Move on.

Seriously like I said if YOU dont agree with then dont do it. It absolutely hurts NOTHING for people to drop GM a quick message that they appreciated Pontiac over the years. Like I said DONT FLAME me for it. If your done and over with Pontiac, how about you move on from this thread and let the people that still have Pontiac in their hearts talk about it without being insulted for doing so. For someone that I called friend before I dont appreciate the derogatory remark at all. Since when is it a bad thing to tell a company that you have appreciated and like their products?

Go back and read it again what I said. First thing was DONT flame me for this. I also told people to be mature and reasonable. Dont blast them and dont write an essay either. Believe it or not big companys actually spend a lot of money gathering feed back from their customer base.

So really if you are that down on Pontiac why bother with this thread. There are many posting in this thread that still like Pontiac. Bashing Pontiacs constantly on a Pontiac based forum doesnt serve much of a purpose if you ask most people.

[Panacea]

Originally Posted by FastSteve

Seriously like I said if YOU dont agree with then dont do it. It absolutely hurts NOTHING for people to drop GM a quick message that they appreciated Pontiac over the years. Like I said DONT FLAME me for it. If your done and over with Pontiac, how about you move on from this thread and let the people that still have Pontiac in their hearts talk about it without being insulted for doing so. For someone that I called friend before I dont appreciate the derogatory remark at all. Since when is it a bad thing to tell a company that you have appreciated and like their products?

Go back and read it again what I said. First thing was DONT flame. I also told people to mature and reasonable. Dont blast them and dont write an essay either. Believe it or not big companys actually spend a lot of money gathering feed back from their customer base.

So really if you are that down on Pontiac why bother with this thread. There are many posting in this thread that still like Pontiac. Bashing Pontiacs constantly on a Pontiac based forum doesnt serve much of a purpose if you ask most people.

I wasn't flaming, just saying that you're fighting a lost cause. You can waste all the time you want trying to get pontiac back, but it will get you nowhere.

[FastSteve]

Originally Posted by Panacea

I wasn't flaming, just saying that you're fighting a lost cause. You can waste all the time you want trying to get pontiac back, but it will get you nowhere.

I dont consider it a lost cause. Like I said I know it is very UNLIKELY that GM will bring Pontiac back down the road. However it also hurts nothing to let GM know that the product was appreciated while around. Also as I said if someone does this in the manner I suggested. Just a brief message once or twice a year. They are losing nothing more then about 15-20 minutes a year to do so. And if in the UNLIKELY event GM does bring Pontiac back I would suspect that it wouldnt happen anytime sooner then in a decade of time. Probable even more then that IF they ever do decide to give Pontiac a go again.

Look I do understand that nothing is likely to happen. I just dont think it hurts to let GM know your behind their products. I think people within the company need to hear that. Especially right now. Maybe it might help them have a little hope in the tough times their company faces right now. As it was said by a person within GM about Pontiac. "There are people within GM that rather drink Draino then kill Pontiac off". So there are people within the company that are disappointed it came down to this too.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Originally Posted by PhantomLover007

Yep. For whomever got the SC/T at the Barrett-Jackson auction, the value just went up for a make that's no longer in business...

Word. Not to mention, who wouldn't want a red SC/T...convertible?

[PhantomLover007]

Originally Posted by RPO3

Anyone have a pic or vid of that Sc/t???
Would be neat to see

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...01%2f18%2f2009

Originally Posted by [ChaosweaveR]

Word. Not to mention, who wouldn't want a red SC/T...convertible?

Not red or 'vert...

[2000 GT Coupe]

wtf it says 14k, and scrap title. Is someone smoking the good stuff?

[Rich]

most of those are not road legal so i think most of those have scrap titles.

[2000 GT Coupe]

Originally Posted by Rich

most of those are not road legal so i think most of those have scrap titles.

Somewhat understandable, however someone said before that the mods do not increase the cars value. The price seems way extreme even for the benefits