Transmission fitment? From 2.2L or 2.4L onto 3.1/3.4?

xsl_will · 10-05-2009, 01:53 AM

Would the transmision from a 04+ 2.2L GA fit the 3.1L in a 2003 Malibu? Or would a trans from a 97-01 2.4L GA fit?

Can I fit a 4t45e from a 04 or 02 GAGT in a 03 Malibu?

CraiGT · 10-05-2009, 02:17 AM

No. Both will NOT fit.

aiixon · 10-05-2009, 02:26 AM

somebody make a how-to with pictures on how to swap 4t45e tranny's so i can do it without relying on haynes...

xsl_will · 10-05-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiGT

No. Both will NOT fit.

What exactly is different that prevents proper fitment?

I know that at some point (03?) The valve body was updated. This included some larger fins and revised gaskets. Are the connectors different?

And I guess the 04 won't fit because of the change in the channel plate and valve body to allow for the electronic gear selection.

But why won't the older 4t40 from the 2.4L engine fit?

CraiGT · 10-05-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsl_will

What exactly is different that prevents proper fitment?

I know that at some point (03?) The valve body was updated. This included some larger fins and revised gaskets. Are the connectors different?

And I guess the 04 won't fit because of the change in the channel plate and valve body to allow for the electronic gear selection.

But why won't the older 4t40 from the 2.4L engine fit?

Dude, not too long ago I had a good long arguement on a different post about this.

The 2.4 (LD9) and 2.2 (Ecotec) have unique bell housing bolt patterns. Their transmissions ONLY fit their engines.

So in conclusion, they will NOT bolt up to a 3100. Dont think about it, or hope someone else comes up and says it will work... it wont.

xsl_will · 10-05-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiGT

Dude, not too long ago I had a good long arguement on a different post about this.

The 2.4 (LD9) and 2.2 (Ecotec) have unique bell housing bolt patterns. Their transmissions ONLY fit their engines.

So in conclusion, they will NOT bolt up to a 3100. Dont think about it, or hope someone else comes up and says it will work... it wont.

No need to get all huffy about it. I did not know and just wanted some clarification. Thanks.

xsl_will · 10-07-2009, 11:44 PM

I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately, so please bear with me. I appreciate all the help and insight.

Can I fit a 4t45e from a 04 or 02 GAGT in a 03 Malibu? In other words... what transmission and years fit other than a transmission from another 03 Malibu?

AaronGTR · 10-08-2009, 08:15 AM

If it's a 3100/3400 engine then yes, they have the same bolt pattern and bell housing and it will bolt right up. They used the same exact transmission.

xsl_will · 10-08-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

If it's a 3100/3400 engine then yes, they have the same bolt pattern and bell housing and it will bolt right up. They used the same exact transmission.

Thanks. So an 04 GAGT trans should be no issue? The seller says that his programs says that the 04 transmission will not even fit an 03 GAGT. And that a 1999 transmission wouldn't fit either.

alocaurd · 10-08-2009, 02:01 PM

not meaning to hijack the thread, but on a side note, how possible is it to swap an ecotec into a normally equipped 3400? just wondering.

AaronGTR · 10-08-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsl_will

Thanks. So an 04 GAGT trans should be no issue? The seller says that his programs says that the 04 transmission will not even fit an 03 GAGT. And that a 1999 transmission wouldn't fit either.

Pfff, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Some of those programs don't even cross reference the same parts used in different cars either. Like I said, if it's a 4T45E transmission, it will bolt to any 60 degree V6 motor. The only thing you'd want to check is what the factory final drive was on your Malibu. The 4T45E in the V6 grand am came with either a 3.05 or 3.29 final drive depending on if it was in the SE or GT. You could use either one but if the gearing is different from your stock one you'd have to have the computer reprogrammed to match it.

CraiGT · 10-08-2009, 07:39 PM

You go Aaron!!! Feels good to be right doesnt it,

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alocaurd

not meaning to hijack the thread, but on a side note, how possible is it to swap an ecotec into a normally equipped 3400? just wondering.

You would need the Ecotec transmission (if somehow you didnt figure that out from the beginning of this thread) computer, and wire harness.

xsl_will · 10-08-2009, 09:46 PM

If I don't retune the PCM, would I just over rev at WOT? And my speedo would be off?

CraiGT · 10-08-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsl_will

If I don't retune the PCM, would I just over rev at WOT? And my speedo would be off?

Where did you get that from?

Your asking about swapping a trans. What does the rev limiter and speedo have to do with it?

AaronGTR · 10-08-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsl_will

If I don't retune the PCM, would I just over rev at WOT? And my speedo would be off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiGT

Where did you get that from?

Your asking about swapping a trans. What does the rev limiter and speedo have to do with it?

He's talking about if he swaps out a 4T45E for a 4T45E from another car but gets one with a different final drive ratio.

Rev limiter would not be affected as that is the engine and is controlled by the pcm via reading of the crank sensor. Totally unrelated to the transmission. Mostly it might mess up your shifting. The vehicles speed is determined by a signal from the transmission output shaft speed sensor. The PCM uses that signal to control shift timing, line pressure, and torque converter clutch apply and release. It also then sends a signal to the gauge cluster to run the speedometer.

The sensor reads a rotor that is pressed onto the differential. It is not clear from reading the manual if the two different final drives use the same rotor, or if the rotor is before or after the final gearing increase, which is what would determine if it was reading the correct speed or not. It's possible you could switch final drives and the pcm would just read the OSS sensor and already be picking up the correct speed... or it's possible it could need the pulses per mile value in the pcm reprogrammed just like if you changed tire size. Someone more familiar with the internals of the transmission could probably tell you.

I would just not worry about experimenting and get the same final drive as what you had. Ask them to check the RPO codes from the vehicle the trans came out of. If there is a FR9 on the code list it has the 3.29 gearing. If it's F83 it has 3.05 gearing. Both trans cases are stamped with MN5, but there is a tag somewhere on the trans that also has a code that should tell them which one it is. I forget what that code is though. You could probably check the tag on yours and figure it out by looking at your rpo codes.

alocaurd · 10-09-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiGT

You go Aaron!!! Feels good to be right doesnt it,

.

You would need the Ecotec transmission (if somehow you didnt figure that out from the beginning of this thread) computer, and wire harness.

haha yeah i figured that much, i was more wondering if engine and tranny mounts are the same. appreciate the reply craig!

AaronGTR · 10-09-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alocaurd

haha yeah i figured that much, i was more wondering if engine and tranny mounts are the same.

I think I read on here somewhere that they were slightly different. I know the upper engine mount is different, and I think some of the trans mounts are too. Like the 4cyl uses the same sub-frame but the brackets for the trans mounts are slightly different or welded in a slightly different place or something. It's been a long time since I've seen that info, but if that's the case it would mean swapping from a complete V6 engine/transmission to the 4cyl engine/trans would require swapping the sub frames also or repositioning the brackets or making new ones. Something along those lines.

CraiGT · 10-09-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I think I read on here somewhere that they were slightly different. I know the upper engine mount is different, and I think some of the trans mounts are too. Like the 4cyl uses the same sub-frame but the brackets for the trans mounts are slightly different or welded in a slightly different place or something. It's been a long time since I've seen that info, but if that's the case it would mean swapping from a complete V6 engine/transmission to the 4cyl engine/trans would require swapping the sub frames also or repositioning the brackets or making new ones. Something along those lines.

The front engine mount is different, but can be used to work with the ecotec. Its been done many times with the 2.4 since it has the same mount as the 3.4, but the engine will sit slightly sideways.

Swapping an auto for an auto does not require welding mounts or changing subframes. It will swap right in. Only thing is the GAGTs came with the 4T45E. Every other model (reguardless it be the 2.4, 2.2, or 3.4) came with the 4T40E. Final drive is different, some internals are different. But I do not know if the 4T45E requires more/different computer control from the 4T40E.

When swapping an auto for a 5speed is when welding new mounts comes into play.

xsl_will · 10-09-2009, 12:05 PM

Thanks for the in depth replies!

I was thinking that if the PCM didn't give the signal to shift (because of the different gearing) it would over rev the engine. And that the speedo and tach get signals from the transmission.

AaronGTR · 10-09-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraiGT

Only thing is the GAGTs came with the 4T45E. Every other model (reguardless it be the 2.4, 2.2, or 3.4) came with the 4T40E. Final drive is different, some internals are different.

That's not 100% correct. The 2.4 and 2.2 4 cylinders did come with the 4T40E yes... but the 3.4L V6 GA SE did not. It also used a 4T45E just like the GT but with a 3.05 final drive. They both have the same MN5 RPO code. Tejohnson proved this a long time ago. He had an SE V6 with the 4T45E that he rebuilt and changed to the GT final drive.

Quote:

...Swapping an auto for an auto does not require welding mounts or changing subframes....When swapping an auto for a 5speed is when welding new mounts comes into play.

That's probably what I was thinking of. I knew I had read something to that effect before but didn't remember the specifics.

10-05-2009, 01:53 AM	#1
xsl_will GAGT - Member AKA: Will Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 31 Vehicle: 2003 Malibu	What transmission fits? Would the transmision from a 04+ 2.2L GA fit the 3.1L in a 2003 Malibu? Or would a trans from a 97-01 2.4L GA fit? Can I fit a 4t45e from a 04 or 02 GAGT in a 03 Malibu? Last edited by xsl_will; 10-07-2009 at 11:43 PM.

10-08-2009, 08:15 AM	#8
AaronGTR BlingWithBallz AKA: Aaron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Detroit area, MI Age: 43 Posts: 12,254 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT1 2dr	If it's a 3100/3400 engine then yes, they have the same bolt pattern and bell housing and it will bolt right up. They used the same exact transmission. __________________ The few, the proud, the boosted! 13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011) See it here. the total package.

10-09-2009, 12:05 PM	#19
xsl_will GAGT - Member AKA: Will Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 31 Vehicle: 2003 Malibu	Thanks for the in depth replies! I was thinking that if the PCM didn't give the signal to shift (because of the different gearing) it would over rev the engine. And that the speedo and tach get signals from the transmission. Last edited by xsl_will; 10-09-2009 at 12:08 PM.

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10-05-2009, 02:17 AM	#2
CraiGT GAGT - Member AKA: Craig Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chandler AZ Posts: 145 Vehicle: 98 Grand Am GT SC	No. Both will NOT fit.

10-05-2009, 02:26 AM	#3
aiixon got ma permit! AKA: Steffan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 907 Age: 29 Posts: 830 Vehicle: 2000 GT Sedan	somebody make a how-to with pictures on how to swap 4t45e tranny's so i can do it without relying on haynes...

10-07-2009, 11:44 PM	#7
xsl_will GAGT - Member AKA: Will Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 31 Vehicle: 2003 Malibu	I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately, so please bear with me. I appreciate all the help and insight. Can I fit a 4t45e from a 04 or 02 GAGT in a 03 Malibu? In other words... what transmission and years fit other than a transmission from another 03 Malibu?

10-08-2009, 02:01 PM	#10
alocaurd GAGT - Member AKA: Clayton Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Huntsville, Ontario Posts: 67 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am SE	not meaning to hijack the thread, but on a side note, how possible is it to swap an ecotec into a normally equipped 3400? just wondering.

10-08-2009, 09:46 PM	#13
xsl_will GAGT - Member AKA: Will Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 31 Vehicle: 2003 Malibu	If I don't retune the PCM, would I just over rev at WOT? And my speedo would be off?