What would 110 fuel do to a stock engine?

[ChosenZero]

What would 110 fuel do to a stock engine? AKA Turbo blue racing Fuel http://www.turboblue.com/

Because there is a disclaimer saying that it should be for off-road use only, adn that it shouldn't be used in cars with Catalytic converters ( Although mine is removed at the moment )what will it do if I put some in my car? Just wondering because I was reading a couple weeks ago that putting the best gas like 108 really does help your engine, and cleans some of the stuff out, but I wanted to make sure before I do anything.

[3800SII]

Originally Posted by ChosenZero

What would 110 fuel do to a stock engine? AKA Turbo blue racing Fuel http://www.turboblue.com/

Because there is a disclaimer saying that it should be for off-road use only, adn that it shouldn't be used in cars with Catalytic converters ( Although mine is removed at the moment )what will it do if I put some in my car? Just wondering because I was reading a couple weeks ago that putting the best gas like 108 really does help your engine, and cleans some of the stuff out, but I wanted to make sure before I do anything.

Well.... a about eight years ago I was messing around with my Firebird and a MAFT+ Translator to see if I could get more power gains. Here in Memphis was a place called Lucky's motorsports and they sold me a gallon of 110 octane race fuel.
My thought was to use the translator to "lean" the injectors out and add timing while running this stuff through the motor. I mixed it with 93 octane. The salesman said that it could melt the top of the pistons... no such luck. During a WOT run I did however manage to burn both collector gaskets from the exhaust manifold. Also, the headers got so hot that they glowed red. Some of the ceramic coating even flaked off.

Basically, I don't think you should use this stuff unless you are boosted. Not gonna make much difference. performance wise. Food for thought....

[Shock24Z]

Originally Posted by ChosenZero

What would 110 fuel do to a stock engine? AKA Turbo blue racing Fuel http://www.turboblue.com/

Because there is a disclaimer saying that it should be for off-road use only, adn that it shouldn't be used in cars with Catalytic converters ( Although mine is removed at the moment )what will it do if I put some in my car? Just wondering because I was reading a couple weeks ago that putting the best gas like 108 really does help your engine, and cleans some of the stuff out, but I wanted to make sure before I do anything.

Off-road use means it's leaded. Leaded fuel will take a toll on your O2 sensor. Other than that, it's really not all that harmful to the engine.

That said, it will really only help you if you can add boost or timing. Generally on a stock-like setup there won't be a whole lot to take advantage of with that high of an octane. On a a built setup with boost or high compression, high octane fuel can be extremely effective. Probably worth as much as 30 hp on your average boosted setup.

So in conclusion, unless you're well modified, and even then, only if you know what you're doing should you bother with this kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by 3800SII

Well.... a about eight years ago I was messing around with my Firebird and a MAFT+ Translator to see if I could get more power gains. Here in Memphis was a place called Lucky's motorsports and they sold me a gallon of 110 octane race fuel.
My thought was to use the translator to "lean" the injectors out and add timing while running this stuff through the motor. I mixed it with 93 octane. The salesman said that it could melt the top of the pistons... no such luck. During a WOT run I did however manage to burn both collector gaskets from the exhaust manifold. Also, the headers got so hot that they glowed red. Some of the ceramic coating even flaked off.

How much 93 octane did you mix it with? And how lean did you make it? Did you scan for knock?

Higher octane fuel might resist pre-detonation, but you still have to follow general rules for fueling and timing...

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by Shock24Z

Higher octane fuel might resist pre-detonation, but you still have to follow general rules for fueling and timing...

"Pre-detonation" is a slight misnomer:

"Confusion and a lot of questions exist as to detonation and pre-ignition. Sometimes you hear mistaken terms like "pre-detonation". Detonation is one phenomenon that is abnormal combustion. Pre-ignition is another phenomenon that is abnormal combustion. The two, as we will talk about, are somewhat related but are two distinctly different phenomenon and can induce distinctly different failure modes."

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...ne/Detonation/

[ChosenZero]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to see what it'd do, because I read that it cleans out your injectors and engine pretty good since it has a massive octane level

[3800SII]

Originally Posted by Shock24Z

Off-road use means it's leaded. Leaded fuel will take a toll on your O2 sensor. Other than that, it's really not all that harmful to the engine.

That said, it will really only help you if you can add boost or timing. Generally on a stock-like setup there won't be a whole lot to take advantage of with that high of an octane. On a a built setup with boost or high compression, high octane fuel can be extremely effective. Probably worth as much as 30 hp on your average boosted setup.

So in conclusion, unless you're well modified, and even then, only if you know what you're doing should you bother with this kind of stuff.




How much 93 octane did you mix it with? And how lean did you make it? Did you scan for knock?

Higher octane fuel might resist pre-detonation, but you still have to follow general rules for fueling and timing...

Don't forget that happened was back on 2001... No such scan devices available for a 99 Fbody with a V6 (that I was aware of)... Just a MAFT+ and some uneducated guessing! I think that the setting was like 4% lean on the MAF signal!

[lone_wolf025]

Originally Posted by ChosenZero

Thanks guys, I just wanted to see what it'd do, because I read that it cleans out your injectors and engine pretty good since it has a massive octane level

Octane doesn't clean out your injectors or engine. If you really wanted to clean both out there are dedicated cleaning products designed for that specific purpose. Go to your local auto parts store and ask for a injector/engine cleaner. There are some types available in a can that you connect directly to the fuel rail to clean everything out.

[ChosenZero]

Originally Posted by lone_wolf025

Octane doesn't clean out your injectors or engine. If you really wanted to clean both out there are dedicated cleaning products designed for that specific purpose. Go to your local auto parts store and ask for a injector/engine cleaner. There are some types available in a can that you connect directly to the fuel rail to clean everything out.

Nah I know that there are injection cleaner, but I just thought I read somewhere here that stuff is really good for the car. Guess it doesn't make a difference

[Saber326]

you will gain nothing without a tune. even then, you probably wouldnt get much unless you changed the valve timing.

[GrandAmGT-2008]

unless you have 13:1 compression n/a, or boosted. dont bother.

[O1GAGT]

Just run a 50/50 blend of E85 and 93 unleaded, and you would be close to 100 octane. I noticed less KR on a stock tune when I ran this blend.

[lone_wolf025]

Even running E85 in a 50/50 mix is asking for trouble. Unless the car was designed as a flex fuel vehicle its not a good idea to run high concentrations of ethanol.

IIRC I wanna say anything over 20% is a bad idea (long term) for a non-flex fuel vehicle. One tank wouldn't hurt anything but consistent use would eat away seals and stuff in the fuel system.

[AaronGTR]

You'd also need bigger injectors and a re-tune to run that much E85 because of the different air/fuel ratio ethanol burns at requires more fuel. You can't just throw some in the tank. A little bit and the engine will probably still run (but the fuel trims will go up) but too much and you'll max out the fuel trims and/or the injectors. Then you go lean and boom!


But back to the 110 octane question, yeah there's no point in that, and if it's leaded it will hurt your cat and O2 sensor.

[Shock24Z]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

"Pre-detonation" is a slight misnomer:

"Confusion and a lot of questions exist as to detonation and pre-ignition. Sometimes you hear mistaken terms like "pre-detonation". Detonation is one phenomenon that is abnormal combustion. Pre-ignition is another phenomenon that is abnormal combustion. The two, as we will talk about, are somewhat related but are two distinctly different phenomenon and can induce distinctly different failure modes."

http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...ne/Detonation/

Indeed. I kinda threw it out there as a general term for knock. My mistake.

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by Saber326

you will gain nothing without a tune. even then, you probably wouldnt get much unless you changed the valve timing.

did you know while tuning a vehicle, during the process one of the things you do is adjust timing?

[Malibu Glow]

Originally Posted by Shock24Z

Higher octane fuel might resist pre-detonation, but you still have to follow general rules for fueling and timing...

Higher Octane ratings do resist pre-ignition/detonation. But Racing fuel is not meant to be used in daily driven cars. On a nicely modified engine using around 25% of this and then the rest as 93 Octane would be Ok but not something that will show any real benefits.

[Shock24Z]

Originally Posted by Malibu Glow

But Racing fuel is not meant to be used in daily driven cars.

Says who?

Originally Posted by Malibu Glow

On a nicely modified engine using around 25% of this and then the rest as 93 Octane would be Ok but not something that will show any real benefits.

What's "nicely modified?"

I think I explained pretty well what you need to take advantage of the higher octane rating.

[AaronGTR]

If it's leaded racing fuel then you couldn't use it in a daily driven modern car with O2 sensors and catalytic converters. If it's unleaded, then yes you could use it... but at $5 a gallon or so it would get real expensive real fast. And it's hard to find. If you want something higher octane for the detonation resistance and for running more timing on boost, and you don't mind the lower fuel mileage, you are better off converting the car to run on E85. Assuming you can get that easily where you live as well. There are very few stations with E85 where I live for example. Otherwise you are better off sticking with good old 93 octane premium pump gas.... assuming you have the modifications and tuning to make use of it. Otherwise it's a waste and you should just run 87.

[Shock24Z]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

If it's leaded racing fuel then you couldn't use it in a daily driven modern car with O2 sensors and catalytic converters.

Well I already said that leaded fuel will take a toll on your O2... thus you should probably run the unleaded if you'd like to run race gas with an O2. But even so, a daily driven modern car can be run without O2 sensors and catalytic converters.

The blanket statement that race gas isn't meant for daily driven cars is inaccurate and misleading. Someone might conclude that it's harmful to the engine when it really isn't.

I already mentioned what leaded leaded fuel will do to an O2 sensor, and what is needed to take advantage of any sort of higher octane fuel.

People can form their own conclusions from there as to whether they can use it in their daily driver.

Oh and Aaron, I'm still waiting for your reply in the thread in the tuning section or the HPTuners thread.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by Shock24Z

Well I already said that leaded fuel will take a toll on your O2... thus you should probably run the unleaded if you'd like to run race gas with an O2. But even so, a daily driven modern car can be run without O2 sensors and catalytic converters.

How do you figure that? Since on modern cars the O2 sensor is vital to the proper fueling of the car, and leaded gas will kill an O2 fairly quickly, you couldn't use leaded gas regularly and you can't run the car without the main O2 sensor.

The blanket statement that race gas isn't meant for daily driven cars is inaccurate and misleading. Someone might conclude that it's harmful to the engine when it really isn't.

I can agree with that. Blanket statements are usually wrong. Race gas isn't harmful to the engine. It just can be harmful to other stuff, so it really depends on what you are using for a daily driver.

Oh and Aaron, I'm still waiting for your reply in the thread in the tuning section or the HPTuners thread.

I haven't had any time to play with the car more, and I have a couple other things I need to fix first. MSD sent my ignition back to me and said it was fine, but the car still won't start with it plugged in and I still need to get my wideband re-installed so I have a better reference of what is happening with the fueling.