GA vs. G8....trade or stay?

[SC/T02]

I am done. This was about the guy getting or not getting a car that had to some extent become an attempt to flame a guy who has a car that only 130 people can have. Call it a GT, call it what you want, an emblem package, still does not take away from the fact that I own it.

Mike, that is a good list from Livernois but most of what you see is an internal build up of components not perofrmance parts. ARP bolts don't make the car faster. Short tube headers are proven to be worth about 8-10 WHP where long tube is 3 times as much. Plus, my car had a stock dyno advantage. Most I have seen a stock GT was 340 at the wheels so I have a huge stock advantage to mine.

I thank you guys for all your interest in my car. the point is the car is worth the money. Read any Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Auto Week, High Performance Pontiac... and they all say the car is worth every penny. I might log back on in the spring to this link to post the dyno results, until then if you have questions feel free to PM me.

[notsoaveragej0e]

Originally Posted by SC/T02

LS4 does have DOD which makes me laugh that you thought that was funny.

Generation IV 5.3L LS4 V8 Overview

The 5.3L LS4 shares the basic architecture of the 6.0L LS2. This includes an all aluminum block, six-bolt main bearing caps, deep-skirt cylinders, and a structural oil pan. It has the 243 casting LS6 heads with LS1 valve springs, which are good for 6200-6300 rpms.

Engineers had to mount this engine sideways so some changes were made. The crankshaft is shorten by 13 mm overall, 3 mm at the flywheel and 10 mm at the accessory drive. This was done to accommodate a more compact accessory drive. Instead of a 2 belt system there is only 1 long serpentine belt, even with this to save space there is only about 2 inches between the crankshaft pulley and the passenger side wheel well. The water pump is mounted off center with elongated passages to connect to the block (see picture). Also a rear facing intake manifold was designed. To ensure proper oiling during high-g cornering the oil pan has special baffles built in. Since Displacement on Demand uses oil for activation an oil pump with 31% more flow than previous LS2 type oil pumps is used.

Displacement: 325ci (5328cc)
Compression Ratio: 10:1 (premium fuel is recommended)
Bore x Stroke: 3.78" x 3.622" (96mm x 92mm)
Firing Order: 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
Horsepower: 303 hp @ 5600 rpm
Torque: 323 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
Fuel Cut-off: 6100 rpm
- 258mm, RI 15 Torque Converter
- Enhanced Heavy Duty 3.29 Final Drive
- 2.93 Effective Final Drive
- Transmission case for transmission mounted starter
- Net-formed Input Sun Gear
- Ceramic bead Peened Final Drive Sun Gear
- Input/Reaction Carrier Assembly
- Contour Hardened ReactionInternal Gear
- Input Carrier & Gear Asm. with lube grooves
- Shot-peened, Black-oxided Input Carrier Pinions
- Shot-peened Reaction Carrier Pinions
- Shot-peened Final Drive Sun shaft
- Upgraded Drive sprocket Thrust washers (new for high speed capability)


Just for you Joe. maybe you should read up...
Displacement on Demand (DoD) General Information

The original name was Displacement on Demand (DoD). For the start of the 2006 model year GM renamed it Active Fuel Management (AFM).

During light load conditions while in 3rd or 4th gear the ECM will shut down cylinders 1, 4, 6, and 7 to put the engine in V4 mode. The engine will not enter V4 mode while cranking, idleing, or heavy acceleration. To shut down the cylinders the intake and exhaust valves stay closed and the fuel injectors stop feeding gas. The ECM times the shutdown so that each deactivated cylinder keeps the exhaust charge from the previous combustion cycle. This pressure on the pistons keeps them from rocking around in the cylinder causing vibration and oil consumption. Complete cylinder deactivation is accomplished in about 250 milliseconds.

The engine components involved in cylinder deactivation are the valve lifter oil manifold (VLOM) and special valve lifters. The VLOM consists of 4 solenoids that control oil flow to 8 valve lifters. Each solenoid goes with a certain cylinder and its 2 valve lifters.

When DoD is commanded on by the ECM the 4 solenoids energize and allow oil to flow to the valve lifters. The special valve lifters are made of an inner lifter and outer lifter with a spring loaded locking pin holding them together. When the oil gets to the lifters the pin is pushed out of place and the inner and outer part of the lifter are allowed to move seperately. The camshaft is still pushing on the outer part of the lifter, but the inner part of the lifter is no longer pushing up on the pushrod. This keeps the intake and exhaust valve shut permanently until the ECM commands DoD off. At this point the solenoids stop oil flow to the lifters and the spring loaded lifter pins lock back into place, causing the lifters to return to normal operation.

cool, you can copy and paste.

trust me, i know what DoD is. I've never heard that engine referred to as an LS4... that implies it is larger/has more horsepower than an LS3, or is the next generation of the LS3, which it is not. I think your circle of car enthusiasts might be the only ones who use that terminology...

Originally Posted by SC/T02

I am done. This was about the guy getting or not getting a car that had to some extent become an attempt to flame a guy who has a car that only 130 people can have. Call it a GT, call it what you want, an emblem package, still does not take away from the fact that I own it.

Mike, that is a good list from Livernois but most of what you see is an internal build up of components not perofrmance parts. ARP bolts don't make the car faster. Short tube headers are proven to be worth about 8-10 WHP where long tube is 3 times as much. Plus, my car had a stock dyno advantage. Most I have seen a stock GT was 340 at the wheels so I have a huge stock advantage to mine.

I thank you guys for all your interest in my car. the point is the car is worth the money. Read any Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Auto Week, High Performance Pontiac... and they all say the car is worth every penny. I might log back on in the spring to this link to post the dyno results, until then if you have questions feel free to PM me.

I don't disagree that the car is worth the money at all. I just have a problem with you coming on and telling a guy he can make ridiculous power with bolt-ons and a sticker, and influencing him to purchase something on false information. I mean come on, 30hp with a CAI? 20 with a Superchip? Get outta here.

[SC/T02]

Cool man. I see where you are coming from, but please research in place of throwing someone under the bus. CAI 2 companies say they are good for 30+HP Here is the site saying 35+ which is not false advertisement. See Grrrr8.net compare different brands http://www.vararam.com/g8.html https://www.superchips.com/default.a...true&vfid=1208
http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.p...ght=superchips

For a little info about what you can get from these cars. Just the tune will bring 0-60 down from 5.3 to around a 4.8. Can't say it is not putting the power down

And here is old ews on the Cheap Flashpaq version of the Superchips tune
Breaking News
93-Octane Tune ReleasedJust before we went to press, Superchips released its 93-octane tune for the G8 GT, which the company tested on a SuperFlow dynamometer. HPP was not present for this test. The results are:Stock: 290.8 hp / 304.5 lb-ftTuned: 306.7 hp / 319.9 lb-ftIncrease: 15.9 hp / 15.4 lb-ft

According to the company, its SuperFlow dynamometer reads horsepower and torque differently than the Dynojet dynamometer used in our testing, and this accounts for a 6hp loss on the baseline. "The SuperFlow reads a little low for comparison," says the staff at Superchips.

The 93-octane tune should ship with new Flashpaq tuners by the time of print, or download it to your



Now they have maxed them out wit a ton of power

The old article it came from. over 11 updates since this release http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...namometer.html

Just food for thought. You can get 50+ at the fly from 2 mods. the car rocks about a 13% drivetrain loss which means 43-44 wheel HP on 2 mods... They do piggy back real well with one another and most members see around the 50 HP gain.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by SC/T02

a guy who has a car that only 130 people can have. Call it a GT, call it what you want, an emblem package, still does not take away from the fact that I own it.

Tis the root of all teh LULZ here.....


FYI: Just put a CAI on my 5.5hp push lawnmower.......now has 7.4hp.

[Ajaxus]

If a website says it puts on 32490809562hp, THEN IT DOES!

BRB, I'm headed to ebay to buy a "chip" for my grand am that puts on 50hp, because the ebay seller says so.

/end argument

[Ajaxus]

Ok, I was wrong in my prior post..

Originally Posted by SC/T02

I am done.

/end

[cardude007617]

final words is id test drive the car a couple times, make sure you REALLY like it and will be happy with driving a pontiac yet. truth is, resale will be nothing, it will suck in snow, isnt cheap to run gas wise, insurance will be more. yes, its a good lookign car, rwd, big sedan. its just an updated impala SS from the early 90s

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Originally Posted by cardude007617

its just an updated impala SS from the early 90s

You just failed. It has nothing in common with the older body on frame Caprice. This car is an Australian design, the Holden Commodore. If anything, it's one of the best models GM's been putting out, it's a shame Pontiac went down the crapper and losing the G8. Hopefully a Chevy variant will come back (not the upcoming Caprice for police use) and replace the lame dated W-body Impala.

[cardude007617]

i know it doesnt. its the same sort of car. big heavy full size sedan with a big powerful motor up front, and rwd. the G8 is indeed worlds ahead of the impala though.

[GregFarz78]

@ a CAI adding 25whp

oh and if you think that GTX is worth any more than a regular GT

[Panacea]

Originally Posted by SC/T02

Cool man. I see where you are coming from, but please research in place of throwing someone under the bus. CAI 2 companies say they are good for 30+HP Here is the site saying 35+ which is not false advertisement. See Grrrr8.net compare different brands http://www.vararam.com/g8.html https://www.superchips.com/default.a...true&vfid=1208
http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.p...ght=superchips

For a little info about what you can get from these cars. Just the tune will bring 0-60 down from 5.3 to around a 4.8. Can't say it is not putting the power down

And here is old ews on the Cheap Flashpaq version of the Superchips tune
Breaking News
93-Octane Tune ReleasedJust before we went to press, Superchips released its 93-octane tune for the G8 GT, which the company tested on a SuperFlow dynamometer. HPP was not present for this test. The results are:Stock: 290.8 hp / 304.5 lb-ftTuned: 306.7 hp / 319.9 lb-ftIncrease: 15.9 hp / 15.4 lb-ft

According to the company, its SuperFlow dynamometer reads horsepower and torque differently than the Dynojet dynamometer used in our testing, and this accounts for a 6hp loss on the baseline. "The SuperFlow reads a little low for comparison," says the staff at Superchips.

The 93-octane tune should ship with new Flashpaq tuners by the time of print, or download it to your



Now they have maxed them out wit a ton of power

The old article it came from. over 11 updates since this release http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...namometer.html

Just food for thought. You can get 50+ at the fly from 2 mods. the car rocks about a 13% drivetrain loss which means 43-44 wheel HP on 2 mods... They do piggy back real well with one another and most members see around the 50 HP gain.

Seriously, you just need to give up right now. Next thing you're going to tell me is that it comes factory with a Tornado and that you get 5mpg better than the stock equivalent. I seriously can't believe you actually believe that a chip and CAI will net you 50hp. You sound like a typical r!cer.

[SC/T02]

Originally Posted by Panacea

Seriously, you just need to give up right now. Next thing you're going to tell me is that it comes factory with a Tornado and that you get 5mpg better than the stock equivalent. I seriously can't believe you actually believe that a chip and CAI will net you 50hp. You sound like a typical r!cer.

Cheapest intake on the market for our cars right now I believe. When run on a stock G8 GT pulled 16RWHP from a metal box with a filter. Then the in shop basic tune was added for a total of 30RWHP gain. This is off the most inexpensive setup for our cars with a "ram air" style layout that will produce more power in motion. http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.p...+intake&page=6


I would say that those are decent numbers as that is about 34 at the fly on a generic setup. If you guys would look you would find many threads like this. Modified cars with No DOD and other major parts show smaller gains due to the performance build already, but search stock cars that throw on a CAI or tune, or both and you will see proven numbers. Listed above I have like 4 pages of members saying a Tune brought their cars from the 5.3 range to a 4.6 or faster. I doubt that many people are trying to lie. The CAI link says Reduces ¼ mile ET by 3 tenths and adds +3mph Minimum Guaranteed, or we will take the unit back and pay shipping both ways! Many members have tried to prove this wrong but can't as tehy see better results then advertised.


I know it is hard to wrap your brain around this. When I had my Grand Am with a CAI, Tune, Accel coil packs, 8.5 wires, NGK plugs, larger MAF, and a ported TB and only saw like 15 HP gain, I was like what the Hell. That would be the difference between a 3.4 and a 6.0 and starting at 175HP or 385HP. Again, loved the Grand Am but it was not a race car in any way. GAGT hard to get to the 13 second range G8 average between publications around the 13.5 mark stock. Anyone with $600 in change can make it a 12 second car. Not too many other cars can you say that about. The L76 is very similar to the L98 and part of the LSx family it is just meant to be more of a high po engine. That is why it takes mods well. tuned down LS motor will respond well when tuned back up. Go to ANY unbiased site about the L76 and they will mention huge untapped power. Even at first people were putting a TVS 1900 blower thinking a 2.8" pulley would be max power. Now people are throwing on the TVS 2300 with NO issues because the car can take it. Am I saying my 4000 lb car is a Corvette, no, but I am saying it is the closest feel to one with 4 doors under 40K.


The V6 he is talking about getting is not slouch either though with the 256 HP DOHC and 250 TQ on a 5 speed auto in place of the 6 in the GT. Not too much power but a nice boost from a Grand Am. They should have put the Caddy DI engine in making over 300 ponies but what can you do. Worth while cars no matter how you slice it. If you want power, it has it. If you want more, you can easily get it. If you want luxury, every magazine will tell you it is one of the best American cars on the road (though made in AUS). Insurance is more. No doubt. not much more as the car comes standard with MANY more safety features from curtain airbags front and rear to OnStar. If you bumped up to the V8, that is when the insurance really starts going up. My '04 GTO had nothing on this car other then the seats. The GTO seats are much nicer. they went with a "European" knob to adjust the back height and put it where you can't reach. That would be my biggest complaint with the car. The fit and finish is by far the best out of any GM I have ever owned. Up there with the wife's Jag. Striking lines with the massive rolled fenders gives a very intimidating stance in the front. When I was done building on the Grand Am I was only getting 23 MPG highway with the 4 speed auto. The V6 G8 gets around 25-26. In town The V6 gets about 18 from what most drivers say. I don't think that is all that bad. But most people that bought these were not looking for a Smart Car amount of MPG. They enjoy everything else about the car


Lets hope now that Fritz Henderson is gone GM decides not to can the G8 coming back under a different brand. They were talking Grand National at one time, then Caprice, and a few others since then. GM was forecasting the sales of the G8 to be around 2800 a month. When The car really started rolling out they were pushing well over 4000 units a month which is a huge increase over what they thought they would be selling. Yes Cash for clunkers helped. But you also have to remember is all that person could afford before was a $300 truck on its last leg then they most likely did not move into a $35000 car more like a cobalt. So I don't think that program had the most impact on the sales. If they know they have a car that works over here then they should keep bringing it over.

[AMRAAM4]

^ I thought you were leaving?

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Came back to feed us more bullcrap. Duh.

[i_ammetal]

Jesus im afraid to say anything now.

ANYWAYS a step away from this pissing contest, i drove again the 6 cyl and the GT for the first time, and although I'm still fond of the sixer for the hardly better fuel economy and insurance paynment, the V8 is the only way to go. There's no point in spending 20k if i could just add another 6k on that and have the power. So that being said..

I'm going to drive the Legacy GT Monday and unless theres some super badass deal going on or the car really stikes a chord im me I'm prolly going to go the economic route and stick with ol Goldy, and maybe add a tune to it.

Mark do you take credit cards via phone?

[[ChaosweaveR]]

The way I see it, nothing wrong with a V6 G8 in my eyes. The 3.6L has a nice potential, and it'll still get nice mileage.

[i_ammetal]

Originally Posted by [ChaosweaveR]

The way I see it, nothing wrong with a V6 G8 in my eyes. The 3.6L has a nice potential, and it'll still get nice mileage.

Yeah but the problem with "potential" is there isn't very many performance mods out there for this engine in the G8, as far as Ive researched the 3.6 is shared in a few other vehicles like the G6 GTP and a few different Cadillac's.... but does that mean these parts are interchangeable even though they are in different applications?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine#LY7

The sixer is a peppey car, even for its weight. No question about it.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Lulz. I can't believe you missed this site:
www.fullthrottleV6.com

You'll find LOTS of go fast goodies and know how about that motor, and how to tinker with it. I'm a member myself over there.

[AMRAAM4]

V6 mod goodies are nothing more than a placebo. If you want a "performance" or "fast" G8 the number one mod, and cheapest $ per horsepower, is the V8 model. You simply don't buy the V6 if you plan for mods to have "performance."

[Grandamgtblk99]

And you modded your grand am so much already, that modding a G8 is definitely gonna happen? I think just picking a car you will be happy with in the long run will be good for you, and not worry about how you much you can mod it. If you can't afford big boy mods for the Grand Am, it's not like you will make use of any aftermarket motor parts for the G8 anyway. So I think your best bet is the V8, buy it with power already.