Who wants to buy a header company...

[lastryghts]

I agree if your so hard up for cash that you ned the deposit back now maybe you shouldn't have spent the money in the first place.

[Rainbow1616]

Originally Posted by solutions_auto

Agreed. In 2006 i gave anys autosport $500 for a OEM style cf hood, guess what never got the hood or my money. These things happen, It's all part of dealing with cars. I know it SUCKS but give this guy some slack.

Agreed, I had a similar experience with a set of running boards for My truck. I lost 300. It does suck but these things do happen.

[lone_wolf025]

For those who are forgetting, the GB money was put out before all the orders were placed because -as Spy stated- this community is a bunch of tightwads. If he simply asked for an interest thread lots of people would put their name down. You'd see maybe 20 names. Then as soon as he changes it to a "purchase thread" maybe 5 out of those 20 actually have the money. The rest claim poverty or suddenly aren't interested the moment comes to "put your money where you mouth is" The header GB was a little different than most but Mark will get you your deposits back. Quit pissing and get over it. He's an honest guy and he stands by his word.

[eckoxl]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Yeah, but he isn't exactly a big business either. He is a small supplier, like most people supplying parts for these cars. It's not like he has lots of available cash to just give refunds. I don't know if that is even his main job or just a side business?

I mean seriously, do you really think he should be responsible when a known supplier who has been around for a long time and has a reputation suddenly shuts down? It's not like they told him in advance they were having trouble so he could have just not taken anyone's money for the GB. He was a blind sided by this as everyone here. Unfortunately most of you would rather try and see who can be the biggest cry baby instead of looking at it from his point of view.

That's the price of doing business? It's also the price of buying car parts. It's the price of modifying cars at all... you take a chance every time you buy something. How about all the people who got screwed on shoddy parts or lost down payments with A3D or RSM racing? That ring a bell? You guys are crying over waiting a few weeks or months for parts or refunds.... cry me a river. You know how long I waited for a refund for the core charge for my LSD? Try 6 months! Or how long I waited for the LSD itself, or the raybestos clutches, or the billet cam, or my DHP powertuner, or my body kit... I was in on the GB's and/or first batch for all those parts. It took almost 2 years to get them all together. Like I said, cry me a river.


And I totally agree with Spy on his statement as well. The S&S price was even cheaper than TOG's and was a good deal. More people should have bought them, then the company might not have had to shut down. Instead everyone complains that parts are too expensive and buys ****ty parts from china that are low quality, poorly engineered, don't last, and sometimes don't even make power or actually hurt it. Guess what, good parts are not cheap to make! If you want good parts and can't make them yourself, then be willing to pay someone else a fair price to do it!

It doesn't matter the size of a business, whether it's a mom and pop or a Microsoft. In this situation, Mark is a retailer. Just like every retailer, if they can't get a certain product from the manufacture, they have to refund that customer and they will have to eat that profit. I deal with this every day at my job, therefore, I already know how his point of view is.

We had an instance at my job that we were taking pre-orders for something. The manufacture, canceled the product and we had to refund all of the customers money. Same situation.

It doesn't matter if he is responsible or not, the thing is, is that we went through him (retailer) to get our parts (from manufacture). Technically, it does make him responsible because he was the person who we gave our money too. Now, if we went through S&S it would be a different story. I'm not putting blame on him, it's just the fact that he was the person we gave our money to.

What Mark could do, is get a business loan for the exact amount of how much he owes all of us. He can do that by going to a reputable bank and telling them the entire story of what is going on. He would most likely have to put up some sort of business related collateral, but the bank will, in this case, give him a loan for the desired amount.

And excuse me that I don't have $500 to throw out the window, and, frankly, if you don't have $500 to give me, then I don't think your opinion really matters in this situation.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by O1GAGT

On 12/6/09 it was indicated that "The GB is over and I will be issuing refunds asap... " Then on 12/8/09 S&S announces they are closing and they suddenly S&S has the money for the group buy that was to be used to make a jig because local people said they were about to ready. Why was there no mention of this in the header group buy or anywhere else stating there were more people that joined the group buy or that $$ was sent for the development of a jig?

When the terms of the group buy are that we can't get the headers made until there are 10 pre orders and then it is stated that refunds would be issued. The money should not have been used for R&D costs on a jig, it should have sat in a secured account until all of the orders were in before any of it was spent.

How do you think it works when you ask a company to make a batch of a new product? Do you think they are going to make a jig and develope the product just because you say you are going to have buyers? They typically will ask for a portion of the funds before they start developement, and they will make all the parts and ship orders out when you have ALL the orders and money. And is it really that surprising how things worked out? He says "ok, I don't have enough people paid up and it's been too long. I'm cancelling the group buy"... calls S&S next day to get a refund... finds out they are closed.

Aaron, it sounds like you got all your parts and this all happened several years ago when the GA market was rather new. What is the ironic thing about the companies that you mention...... most of them are out of business.

I have lost money on parts before, and of the companies I mentioned only A3D and RSM are out of business, and technically RSM changed to Z spec although I don't know if they are still operating.

Originally Posted by SpyhunteR

You guys are all a bunch of whiners. If you all bitch enough and band together you can shut his small business down too due to S&S shutting down.

I find the grand am community is a bunch of tight asses. A couple local people have found me through here and have asked me to help them, and I told them what it would take for specific results, I also told them how much it would take for me to tune their car after all was said and done. They were cheap & impatient & want instant results for the price of a happy meal. This board is sounding more and more like it.

Agreed, no one in this community wants to put their money where their mouth is. Personally I feel that's why no one has a grand am as fast as what people in the grand prix community has achieved. Not because the car lacks potential, but because no one has completed a high level build. Most who start end up giving up half way through.

Originally Posted by cardude007617

still doesn't answer though where the money from the group buy is right now. I just assumed it would be sitting in a paypal account until S&S would start shipping out the headers. Guess not, now its just who's "pocket" its in.

It's probably in the pockets of the owners of S&S's building. It definitely sucks, but I'm sure they continued taking orders and money because they were trying to pay rent and keep their doors open. It sucks but can you blame them?

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by eckoxl

It doesn't matter the size of a business, whether it's a mom and pop or a Microsoft. In this situation, Mark is a retailer. Just like every retailer, if they can't get a certain product from the manufacture, they have to refund that customer and they will have to eat that profit. I deal with this every day at my job, therefore, I already know how his point of view is.

We had an instance at my job that we were taking pre-orders for something. The manufacture, canceled the product and we had to refund all of the customers money. Same situation.

IS it the same situation though? Did your company have to send a down payment to the manufacturer or where they just sitting on the money? Anyway, I'm not saying Mark is or isn't responsible, or that he should or shouldn't pay you guys back. I'm sure he will pay you guys back eventually one way or another because he's an honest guy. What I'm pissed off about is the cry babies on here acting as if he knew and did this on purpose. Grow up already!

And excuse me that I don't have $500 to throw out the window, and, frankly, if you don't have $500 to give me, then I don't think your opinion really matters in this situation.

Who does have money to throw away these days? But you know what... this is the internet and this is an automotive forum. Mark is a good vendor of the very few we have for these cars, who I have dealt with before and I don't want to see him go away because you guys are slamming him for no good reason. I can give my opinion if I feel like it and I don't give two damns if you agree with me or not or if you get all butt hurt about it.

[eckoxl]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

IS it the same situation though? Did your company have to send a down payment to the manufacturer or where they just sitting on the money? Anyway, I'm not saying Mark is or isn't responsible, or that he should or shouldn't pay you guys back. I'm sure he will pay you guys back eventually one way or another because he's an honest guy. What I'm pissed off about is the cry babies on here acting as if he knew and did this on purpose. Grow up already!

Yes it IS the same situation. We had already paid for all the pre-orders before hand. And the last time I checked, inquiring about whats going on with my order and where my money went was not being a cry baby.

Again, I never said that I was blaming Mark. All I was doing in my original post was inquiring why I hadn't been contacted, whats going on with my order and where my money got to. Excuse me for doing that. I know Mark is an honest guy, never said anything different.

[SilverGAGT2002]

I wonder when mark can tell us when we are getting our money back

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by eckoxl

Yes it IS the same situation. We had already paid for all the pre-orders before hand. And the last time I checked, inquiring about whats going on with my order and where my money went was not being a cry baby.

Again, I never said that I was blaming Mark. All I was doing in my original post was inquiring why I hadn't been contacted, whats going on with my order and where my money got to. Excuse me for doing that. I know Mark is an honest guy, never said anything different.

Your posts have indicated you ARE a whiner going to open forum instead of PM's w/ Mark about things.

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

IS it the same situation though? Did your company have to send a down payment to the manufacturer or where they just sitting on the money? Anyway, I'm not saying Mark is or isn't responsible, or that he should or shouldn't pay you guys back. I'm sure he will pay you guys back eventually one way or another because he's an honest guy. What I'm pissed off about is the cry babies on here acting as if he knew and did this on purpose. Grow up already!



Who does have money to throw away these days? But you know what... this is the internet and this is an automotive forum. Mark is a good vendor of the very few we have for these cars, who I have dealt with before and I don't want to see him go away because you guys are slamming him for no good reason. I can give my opinion if I feel like it and I don't give two damns if you agree with me or not or if you get all butt hurt about it.

I heart you like heartburn. I'm getting you a giftwrapped Sik for Christmas.

[eckoxl]

Not if I already had attempted PM's and email.

[O1GAGT]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

How do you think it works when you ask a company to make a batch of a new product? Do you think they are going to make a jig and develope the product just because you say you are going to have buyers? They typically will ask for a portion of the funds before they start developement, and they will make all the parts and ship orders out when you have ALL the orders and money. And is it really that surprising how things worked out? He says "ok, I don't have enough people paid up and it's been too long. I'm cancelling the group buy"... calls S&S next day to get a refund... finds out they are closed.

I think when a company states in the original group buy thread "In order to ensure interest in the headers we wont be having the jig made till we have 10 pre-orders.", that they would wait until all 10 pre-orders were made before the money to have the jig made would be sent to the manufacturer. From what I can tell there were not 10 pre-orders and therefore the money to make the jig should have never been sent to S&S as the terms and conditions of the group buy were not met.

Originally Posted by lvemy3100

The prototype is done and we are having a jig made from our turbo headers so that they can be enjoyed by all 3100/3400 owners. In order to ensure interest in the headers we wont be having the jig made till we have 10 pre-orders. Once we have the 10 we will be closing this store listing to ensure only a limited amount of people will get this great deal.
Production will take from 6-8 weeks once we have all of our pre-orders.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I have lost money on parts before, and of the companies I mentioned only A3D and RSM are out of business, and technically RSM changed to Z spec although I don't know if they are still operating.

DHP is out of business, RSM is out of business, A3D is out of business, Cammotion no longer makes cams for the 3400, Not sure if Jeff at EP is still talking orders on the diffs... last I heard he was done or about done, and the Raybestos clutch plates were probably still in development when you got in on that deal.

All aside this is a ****ty situation for everyone, with S&S going out. I am not sure if MPR has a business owners insurance policy, however depending on the policy there may be provisions to protect against suppliers closing or defaulting.

[SilverGAGT2002]

I think when a company states in the original group buy thread "In order to ensure interest in the headers we wont be having the jig made till we have 10 pre-orders.", that they would wait until all 10 pre-orders were made before the money to have the jig made would be sent to the manufacturer. From what I can tell there were not 10 pre-orders and therefore the money to make the jig should have never been sent to S&S as the terms and conditions of the group buy were not met.

[stewartfn18]

SilverGAGT2002, u need to calm down dude. Do u know mark personally? didnt think so. Guess what, i do. and i HAVE talked to him recently and whether u care to know it or not, mark has not had the greatest of health recently, as i saw this first hand when we went to the track to tune my car. also, s&s going out of buisness, was out of his control. he did not see it coming. mark is not out to screw anyone, if u knew him like i do, u would know this.

Second, did anyone who sent in the money for the gb stop and take a second to think maybe s&s said they would set up the jig, but instead of doing that they took the money and ran because they knew they were in the sh1tter. again, mark would not have known that. everyone needs to quit blaming mpr for everything, and actually take a second to think before they speak.

/thread

[SilverGAGT2002]

Alright ill just wait for mark to give us some updates.

[cardude007617]

speaking of which... why hasnt he really given many details since the first update?

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by cardude007617

speaking of which... why hasnt he really given many details since the first update?

Probably because he's trying to run a business, and doesn't see it necessary to say anything in this ****storm thread bashing him, for things out of his control. You guys need to give him some time for him to get his end of things sorted out. If there's no new news there's no news to report on the situation is what he is probably going w/.

[Vegeta]

WOT-Tech will be taking care of the 3400 N body headers along with the other 60V6 platforms. I will need a vehicle in Florida, somewhere in the Miami area would be best. I am working with John at 60inclusive.com to provide more parts for the community, starting with the L body headers. Once those are beta tested and we have this header ball rolling, I will be more active with this discussion, but not this thread. I don't do business with S&S or MPRacing and have nothing of value to add to this unfortunate situation.

[stewartfn18]

this is good to hear if ur someone that doesnt have headers and wanted them

[SilverGAGT2002]

Any updates?