overheated, got a few questions

350rs · 02-17-2010, 05:16 PM

My GT overheated.. MAJOR last night. As in the light came on before i noticed it. I have had a bit of a noise in the serpentine setup somewhere, but never found it. Today i replaced the water pump ( that was surprisingly easy) and had it running long enough to get it out of my garage and behind the house. So it didnt get much of a chance to warm up. But it was a bit quieter. So i assume that may have been a problem.

About a year ago i did the LIM gasket and i changed the thermostat then. So it shouldnt be messed up yet.. right? Well who knows, ill find out tomorrow. Im gonna let the silicone set up properly before i get it to operating temps. If it gets too hot ill shut it off i guess and do the thermo again.

My biggest question is.. my oil ( FRESH FROM VALENTINES DAY..) is obviously now ruined. But i have A LOT of milky oil on the valve covers. I didnt notice a external leak anywhere. But its hard to tell with the little bit of an explosion of coolant i had last night. Could that simply be because it got SO hot and it had really bad condensation? ( please say yes..) Ill change the oil again before i do too much driveing. But i dont want to change it just to pull the motor apart and have to change it again. If its the head gaskets.. ive considered the 3500 top end swap. Dont care about the performance, but ive read on here that its still a better performing head possibly giving me better mileage?

Obviously the low coolant light came on. I filled up the reservoir before i moved it and its still on. Is there a reset? Or could the heat have broken it somehow?

Of course, there is that chance that ill just put it up for sale if it is.

PhantomLover007 · 02-18-2010, 11:31 AM

Yu may have cracked the head. If you get alot of white smoke when you crank it up...

350rs · 02-18-2010, 03:48 PM

no smoke at all. Im lost. Started it up today and it did the same thing. I did the "burping" with the bleeder valve. So i wouldnt think that to be a problem, but i guess i could do it again. Maybe i missed some somewhere. One thing that was strange to me.. When i started it today it got to about 150 degrees and just stayed there. Didnt move for a few mins. So i gave it some gas and it shot up 10 or 15 degrees. did it again and had the same result. I finally got it up to 200 or so and stopped. To see what it would do. Nothing, just got hotter. And still no heat in the car. Im letting it cool, then ill try burping it again. Its acting to me like the water pump isnt working.. but it has to be. Belts routed correctly, and its brand freakin new! Is there a bypass so the coolant dosent have to go through the engine BEFORE it goes to the heater core? Or does it absolutely have to? A faulty thermo would cause it to not be hot, but wouldnt explain why temps didnt change untill i hit the gas.

I looked some more today for a leak. I noticed the bellhousing is pretty wet. looks like coolant but hard to say. and it looks fresh too. So theres a possible leak right there. Ill dig into that more when it cools also.

Just in case.. what would a GAGT with 112k on the clock and a blown head gasket be worth? about 12 cents i assume? OH!! its got the rare package that i made up. I call it the mule kick package. It consists of a pissed off me mule kicken and crackin the rear bumper. So thats gotta be worth something right? haha.. not. updates and i know them.

AaronGTR · 02-18-2010, 04:20 PM

Over heating by itself should not ruin the oil. Only if you have a blown head gasket and coolant is leaking into the oil. If the head is warped/cracked, then it could be possible for that to happen, but I'd also think you'd be getting smoke from burning coolant out the exhaust.

350rs · 02-18-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Over heating by itself should not ruin the oil. Only if you have a blown head gasket and coolant is leaking into the oil. If the head is warped/cracked, then it could be possible for that to happen, but I'd also think you'd be getting smoke from burning coolant out the exhaust.

thats exactly what i though too. BUT i have nothing and it runs great. There is a tick that i noticed today and forgot to mention. but it sounds more like a short from one of the plug wires. If i muster up the energy ill go burp it again shorly. Gonna buy a coolant system pressure tester and test it before i do anything. Maybe a cylinder compression tester as well. What should this car be reading if everything were A OK?

ill change the oil, its not super expensive and ill feel better about it. filter should be fine so ill leave it. Im just worried about all that milk on the valve covers..

350rs · 02-19-2010, 04:26 PM

seems to be fixed now. Reburped it and it gets hot normal, and cools normal. Im going to keep a close eye on everything for awhile though

I thought today at work that it might have been the fans. I know those things do a lot for cooling. They didnt come on with the AC on.. arent they supposed to when you turn on the AC no matter what? Or am i just stuck in old school thought? I didnt think to check when it was hot.. stupid me.

Tomorrow ill replace the thermostat for piece of mind and change the oil, again for piece of mind. It smells terrible so i think it should be done.

Any kind of thought?

myneedforspeed · 02-19-2010, 05:49 PM

if you arent getting any heat in the car chances are its the thermostat.

350rs · 02-19-2010, 06:40 PM

i am now. all seems well at this second. but may be intermittent thermostat failure. sometimes it works sometimes it wont. it got to say 220 or a bit higher a few times sitting at drive troughs before it would go down. So thats what my thought it and i will change it tomorrow.

stonemason90 · 02-19-2010, 09:46 PM

are you 100% sure you did the manifold gasket right? because if you got milky oil but no smoke, that sounds like a manifold leak to me. add to it the coolant you found on the bellhousing. mine did something similar when it failed. it would get temp spikes and not have any heat at all.

350rs · 02-20-2010, 08:42 AM

yea. its such a straight forward thing to do a monkey could do it. i got the problem solver metal gaskets for the LIM. Hasnt leaked untill this. I still think it might just be a lot of condensation build up. I looked at that leak yesterday too. its a bit iffy. Ill do a pressure test on the system and see what it tells me.

350rs · 02-20-2010, 09:53 AM

never thought to ask.. but is there a up or down on these water pumps?? I looked at it a bit and didnt notice anything that would say put this end up in a way? my haynes book said there was a weaphole in it? After i did the fix of course.. i dont have any leak as far as the water pump goes anymore, so i guess if there is a "this way up" i might have just happened to put it on right..

350rs · 02-20-2010, 06:41 PM

as of now, all is well. rigged the old reservoir cap with a valve stem and pressurized the system to 13 pounds. Held it for over 15 mins so i consider that sealed. Changed oil ( old stuff was black now.) Ran it around a bit and it ran fine. Almost better than before. Certainly quieter than before, i guess that pump made a good amount of noise.

My bleeder valve however has a super small leak. Where might a person get the replacement brass piece for that? Or could i even just find a bolt that fits in place? Aside from corrosion.. is there anything wrong with doing that

stonemason90 · 02-20-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350rs

yea. its such a straight forward thing to do a monkey could do it. i got the problem solver metal gaskets for the LIM. Hasnt leaked untill this. I still think it might just be a lot of condensation build up. I looked at that leak yesterday too. its a bit iffy. Ill do a pressure test on the system and see what it tells me.

actually if you dont torque it specificilly to what it says it can start leaking again also if you didnt use enough silicone or if you used too much it can also leak. also if you over torque it it can crack the lower manifold i know someone who had that happen to him.

edit: so ya its not as straight foward as you think.... theres tons of things that can go wrong if you dont know what your doing.

350rs · 02-20-2010, 08:13 PM

followed the torque specs givin to me by the haynes manual. left a quarter inch of silicone ( ultra gray) bead at each end of the vally. Left extra at the corner where the head and block meet. cleaned to surgical standards all mateing surfaces. Cleaned out all bolt holes with carb cleaner and compressed air. Lock tite on all important threads. THAT job seems a complete success.

so while a monkey i guess couldnt. anybody with a brain and a little wrenching experience could. i suppose lots of patience for a first time would help as well.

stonemason90 · 02-21-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350rs

followed the torque specs givin to me by the haynes manual. left a quarter inch of silicone ( ultra gray) bead at each end of the vally. Left extra at the corner where the head and block meet. cleaned to surgical standards all mateing surfaces. Cleaned out all bolt holes with carb cleaner and compressed air. Lock tite on all important threads. THAT job seems a complete success.

so while a monkey i guess couldnt. anybody with a brain and a little wrenching experience could. i suppose lots of patience for a first time would help as well.

ya thats the way your supposed to its just the symptoms lead to that.... unless you got a cracked block then your screwed..... but you said that its working fine again? maybe it was just still some left over from when you did the gasket. itll still be in the system for awhile after. like 3 or 4 oil changes after.

and lots of patience for the first time is an understatement..... especially if your doing it on your own the first time....

350rs · 02-21-2010, 09:17 AM

the milky oil seems gone now as well. the usual small amount just from it being cold out. But nothing too intense anymore. After i changed the oil i let it run for about a half hour in the drive just watching the heating and cooling cycles. i never noticed how fast this car gets hot after being cooled. I drove it around a bit like i said. checked the oil later that night ( like i always do after changes) and it was fine. So it looks like i got super lucky.

What would you guys think about running a gasket sealer through the cooling for a just in case? im iffy on it since ive heard soooo many horror stories after people doing that. I use to reccomend Bars Stop Leak all the time when i worked at oreilly but only as a last resort kind of thing.

stonemason90 · 02-21-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350rs

the milky oil seems gone now as well. the usual small amount just from it being cold out. But nothing too intense anymore. After i changed the oil i let it run for about a half hour in the drive just watching the heating and cooling cycles. i never noticed how fast this car gets hot after being cooled. I drove it around a bit like i said. checked the oil later that night ( like i always do after changes) and it was fine. So it looks like i got super lucky.

What would you guys think about running a gasket sealer through the cooling for a just in case? im iffy on it since ive heard soooo many horror stories after people doing that. I use to reccomend Bars Stop Leak all the time when i worked at oreilly but only as a last resort kind of thing.

if you wanna get a new heater core go right ahead.... bars stop leak is notorious for clogging heaters cores

350rs · 02-21-2010, 07:34 PM

ive been told its more from people not doing it properly. They leave the heater off and it builds up at the bypass. but thats on older cars that have a full blown bypass. not sure how this car operates.

stonemason90 · 02-22-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350rs

ive been told its more from people not doing it properly. They leave the heater off and it builds up at the bypass. but thats on older cars that have a full blown bypass. not sure how this car operates.

our cars are a sealed system with a bypass hose that is used to both cool the engine as well as bleed air out of the system and itll happen with both old and modern cars. a friend of mine has an 03 monte carlo, same engine as ours, he put some in hoping to not have to replace his manifold gasket but it clogged his heater core as well as he still had to replace the gasket. our bypass hose isnt at the heater core its right in front off of the thermostat so leaving the heat off wont cause that problem. its using your heat with it is what clogs it.

350rs · 02-22-2010, 08:01 PM

meh, not worth my time then. ill leave it out.

02-17-2010, 05:16 PM	#1
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	overheated, got a few questions My GT overheated.. MAJOR last night. As in the light came on before i noticed it. I have had a bit of a noise in the serpentine setup somewhere, but never found it. Today i replaced the water pump ( that was surprisingly easy) and had it running long enough to get it out of my garage and behind the house. So it didnt get much of a chance to warm up. But it was a bit quieter. So i assume that may have been a problem. About a year ago i did the LIM gasket and i changed the thermostat then. So it shouldnt be messed up yet.. right? Well who knows, ill find out tomorrow. Im gonna let the silicone set up properly before i get it to operating temps. If it gets too hot ill shut it off i guess and do the thermo again. My biggest question is.. my oil ( FRESH FROM VALENTINES DAY..) is obviously now ruined. But i have A LOT of milky oil on the valve covers. I didnt notice a external leak anywhere. But its hard to tell with the little bit of an explosion of coolant i had last night. Could that simply be because it got SO hot and it had really bad condensation? ( please say yes..) Ill change the oil again before i do too much driveing. But i dont want to change it just to pull the motor apart and have to change it again. If its the head gaskets.. ive considered the 3500 top end swap. Dont care about the performance, but ive read on here that its still a better performing head possibly giving me better mileage? Obviously the low coolant light came on. I filled up the reservoir before i moved it and its still on. Is there a reset? Or could the heat have broken it somehow? Of course, there is that chance that ill just put it up for sale if it is. Last edited by 350rs; 02-17-2010 at 05:19 PM.

02-18-2010, 04:20 PM	#4
AaronGTR BlingWithBallz AKA: Aaron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Detroit area, MI Age: 43 Posts: 12,254 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT1 2dr	Over heating by itself should not ruin the oil. Only if you have a blown head gasket and coolant is leaking into the oil. If the head is warped/cracked, then it could be possible for that to happen, but I'd also think you'd be getting smoke from burning coolant out the exhaust. __________________ The few, the proud, the boosted! 13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011) See it here. the total package.

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02-18-2010, 03:48 PM	#3
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	no smoke at all. Im lost. Started it up today and it did the same thing. I did the "burping" with the bleeder valve. So i wouldnt think that to be a problem, but i guess i could do it again. Maybe i missed some somewhere. One thing that was strange to me.. When i started it today it got to about 150 degrees and just stayed there. Didnt move for a few mins. So i gave it some gas and it shot up 10 or 15 degrees. did it again and had the same result. I finally got it up to 200 or so and stopped. To see what it would do. Nothing, just got hotter. And still no heat in the car. Im letting it cool, then ill try burping it again. Its acting to me like the water pump isnt working.. but it has to be. Belts routed correctly, and its brand freakin new! Is there a bypass so the coolant dosent have to go through the engine BEFORE it goes to the heater core? Or does it absolutely have to? A faulty thermo would cause it to not be hot, but wouldnt explain why temps didnt change untill i hit the gas. I looked some more today for a leak. I noticed the bellhousing is pretty wet. looks like coolant but hard to say. and it looks fresh too. So theres a possible leak right there. Ill dig into that more when it cools also. Just in case.. what would a GAGT with 112k on the clock and a blown head gasket be worth? about 12 cents i assume? OH!! its got the rare package that i made up. I call it the mule kick package. It consists of a pissed off me mule kicken and crackin the rear bumper. So thats gotta be worth something right? haha.. not. updates and i know them.

02-19-2010, 04:26 PM	#6
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	seems to be fixed now. Reburped it and it gets hot normal, and cools normal. Im going to keep a close eye on everything for awhile though I thought today at work that it might have been the fans. I know those things do a lot for cooling. They didnt come on with the AC on.. arent they supposed to when you turn on the AC no matter what? Or am i just stuck in old school thought? I didnt think to check when it was hot.. stupid me. Tomorrow ill replace the thermostat for piece of mind and change the oil, again for piece of mind. It smells terrible so i think it should be done. Any kind of thought?

02-19-2010, 06:40 PM	#8
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	i am now. all seems well at this second. but may be intermittent thermostat failure. sometimes it works sometimes it wont. it got to say 220 or a bit higher a few times sitting at drive troughs before it would go down. So thats what my thought it and i will change it tomorrow.

02-19-2010, 09:46 PM	#9
stonemason90 GAGT - Member AKA: mike Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: warren, michigan Posts: 86 Vehicle: 00 grand am gt1 coupe	are you 100% sure you did the manifold gasket right? because if you got milky oil but no smoke, that sounds like a manifold leak to me. add to it the coolant you found on the bellhousing. mine did something similar when it failed. it would get temp spikes and not have any heat at all.

02-20-2010, 08:42 AM	#10
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	yea. its such a straight forward thing to do a monkey could do it. i got the problem solver metal gaskets for the LIM. Hasnt leaked untill this. I still think it might just be a lot of condensation build up. I looked at that leak yesterday too. its a bit iffy. Ill do a pressure test on the system and see what it tells me.

02-20-2010, 09:53 AM	#11
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	never thought to ask.. but is there a up or down on these water pumps?? I looked at it a bit and didnt notice anything that would say put this end up in a way? my haynes book said there was a weaphole in it? After i did the fix of course.. i dont have any leak as far as the water pump goes anymore, so i guess if there is a "this way up" i might have just happened to put it on right..

02-20-2010, 06:41 PM	#12
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	as of now, all is well. rigged the old reservoir cap with a valve stem and pressurized the system to 13 pounds. Held it for over 15 mins so i consider that sealed. Changed oil ( old stuff was black now.) Ran it around a bit and it ran fine. Almost better than before. Certainly quieter than before, i guess that pump made a good amount of noise. My bleeder valve however has a super small leak. Where might a person get the replacement brass piece for that? Or could i even just find a bolt that fits in place? Aside from corrosion.. is there anything wrong with doing that

02-20-2010, 08:13 PM	#14
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	followed the torque specs givin to me by the haynes manual. left a quarter inch of silicone ( ultra gray) bead at each end of the vally. Left extra at the corner where the head and block meet. cleaned to surgical standards all mateing surfaces. Cleaned out all bolt holes with carb cleaner and compressed air. Lock tite on all important threads. THAT job seems a complete success. so while a monkey i guess couldnt. anybody with a brain and a little wrenching experience could. i suppose lots of patience for a first time would help as well.

02-21-2010, 09:17 AM	#16
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	the milky oil seems gone now as well. the usual small amount just from it being cold out. But nothing too intense anymore. After i changed the oil i let it run for about a half hour in the drive just watching the heating and cooling cycles. i never noticed how fast this car gets hot after being cooled. I drove it around a bit like i said. checked the oil later that night ( like i always do after changes) and it was fine. So it looks like i got super lucky. What would you guys think about running a gasket sealer through the cooling for a just in case? im iffy on it since ive heard soooo many horror stories after people doing that. I use to reccomend Bars Stop Leak all the time when i worked at oreilly but only as a last resort kind of thing.

02-21-2010, 07:34 PM	#18
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	ive been told its more from people not doing it properly. They leave the heater off and it builds up at the bypass. but thats on older cars that have a full blown bypass. not sure how this car operates.

02-22-2010, 08:01 PM	#20
350rs GAGT - Member AKA: Tom Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 33 Posts: 547 Vehicle: 01 GT, 89 L98 Camaro	meh, not worth my time then. ill leave it out.