2011 Camaro V6 - it didn't take long!

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by i_ammetal

I agree in a sense.. but you have to consider that they could do as they always do, share platforms. Providing there isn't a huge selection for them since its FORD, they could work something out if they really wanted to do it.

But your right. In this economy its taking a huge risk.

unnecessary costs kill your idea.

[02andahalfgt]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

GM trucks do overtake Ford, nearly every single year. The Silverado and Sierra are the same truck minus a couple aesthetic things that don't change performance at all. Ford loves using this semantic loophole all of the time in their marketing ("the #1 selling truck").

GM built trucks outsell Ford built trucks almost every year.

Good point.

[Metallman56]

[BTW, the engine for the '10 and '11 is the same. The horsepower was just 're-certified'. Nothing was done to make it more powerful.[/quote]

wow that sounds like something the government would do to try to cheat the numbers. oh wait, thats right were talking about government motors.

to be honest i wouldnt buy a gm car right now, even if it was 1,000 hp got 1000 mpg, and was $1,000. they can kiss my a*s.

[02andahalfgt]

Originally Posted by Metallman56

wow that sounds like something the government would do to try to cheat the numbers. oh wait, thats right were talking about government motors.

to be honest i wouldnt buy a gm car right now, even if it was 1,000 hp got 1000 mpg, and was $1,000. they can kiss my a*s.

Right, since they repaid their government loans ahead of schedule and the United States government has absolutely no say in how they conduct day-to-day operations. How dare they.

[westerndragon]

Originally Posted by 02andahalfgt

Right, since they repaid their government loans ahead of schedule and the United States government has absolutely no say in how they conduct day-to-day operations. How dare they.

GM repaid, banks are only just begining to repay, AND GM submitted forms showing everything they did with the money oh yeah and they are showing profit as well....hmmm im not sure they know what their doing....

[i_ammetal]

Originally Posted by Metallman56

[BTW, the engine for the '10 and '11 is the same. The horsepower was just 're-certified'. Nothing was done to make it more powerful.

to be honest i wouldnt buy a gm car right now, even if it was 1,000 hp got 1000 mpg, and was $1,000. they can kiss my a*s.[/quote]


Then your a focking idiot. Aside from trying to make your point, idk one person that would pass an unrealistic deal like that.

QFT

[GTLUVA]

I love my Camaro! I enjoyed my 4 months of ownership! She goes even though I have a V6. The Camaro is one of gm's best selling cars right now. The car definately has a nice aftermarket world for it to compared to my G6 I use to own I have spent over $2,000 in mods already for it So whatever folks

[Metallman56]

Originally Posted by 02andahalfgt

Right, since they repaid their government loans ahead of schedule and the United States government has absolutely no say in how they conduct day-to-day operations. How dare they.

yeah i saw that comercial too. its funny that they claim to have repaid thier loans, yet lost $4.5 billion from july to december last year alone. companys bleeding money that bad dont repay loans.

and its not even the loans part. its the fact that the president took gm over. this isnt china. and the fact that the guy has enough balls to go on tv and tell the entire country a lie, should p*ss you off as a american.

Originally Posted by i_ammetal

to be honest i wouldnt buy a gm car right now, even if it was 1,000 hp got 1000 mpg, and was $1,000. they can kiss my a*s.

Then your a focking idiot. Aside from trying to make your point, idk one person that would pass an unrealistic deal like that.

QFT[/quote]

an idiot who knows how to use the quote button. key word in your last sentance is "unrealistic". and if you dont pass on unrealistic deals like that, then i've got some awesome beach front property to sell you for real cheap.

Originally Posted by GTLUVA

I love my Camaro! I enjoyed my 4 months of ownership! She goes even though I have a V6. The Camaro is one of gm's best selling cars right now. The car definately has a nice aftermarket world for it to compared to my G6 I use to own I have spent over $2,000 in mods already for it So whatever folks

for the record i'm not a camero hater. i'm a government getting into private buissness hater. and as long as that goes on, i wont buy a gm car. just my opinion. i loved the camero before they killed it, and if you go back and read my posts from god only knows how long ago, you'll see that i thought gm was dumb to kill it.

[Mac0083]

I didn't really like the looks of the new camaro, but i thought that with time and HP that it would grow on me. Then i watched an episode of Ultimate Factories, the all-american sports car is assembled in Candania... no big deal, that doesn't really sway me, I'm a capitalist after all. But what i found disgusting is through the whole process how care-free the workers are. the entire wire system is yanked through the car and connected in 40 seconds. Absolutely no sense of pride. these aren't car enthusiasts, just people there to get a paycheck with benefits. If i ever have a short circuit in my car, i'll know why. I'm shocked that i haven't had one yet. Also, Car and Driver did a comparo or 2 the last few months and the Mustang has come a long way. The newest Mustangs look better than ever before, and i'm sure they have windows that you can see out of. Sat down in the Camaro at a car show, shut the door, adjusted the seat.... had no visibility anywhere.
Last thing, Ford didn't take Bailout money.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by Mac0083

I didn't really like the looks of the new camaro, but i thought that with time and HP that it would grow on me. Then i watched an episode of Ultimate Factories, the all-american sports car is assembled in Candania... no big deal, that doesn't really sway me, I'm a capitalist after all. But what i found disgusting is through the whole process how care-free the workers are. the entire wire system is yanked through the car and connected in 40 seconds. Absolutely no sense of pride. these aren't car enthusiasts, just people there to get a paycheck with benefits. If i ever have a short circuit in my car, i'll know why. I'm shocked that i haven't had one yet. Also, Car and Driver did a comparo or 2 the last few months and the Mustang has come a long way. The newest Mustangs look better than ever before, and i'm sure they have windows that you can see out of. Sat down in the Camaro at a car show, shut the door, adjusted the seat.... had no visibility anywhere.
Last thing, Ford didn't take Bailout money.

I agree with you on some of those points, but not the last one. GM didn't take bailout money. The banks did... that was money they took from the government with no intention or requirement to ever pay it back or account for what they did with it. GM and chrysler took money from the government only as a loan that they promised to pay back and show what it was being used for. That's not a bailout. Ford didn't need a loan because they were in trouble earlier than GM and chrysler, actually before the economy tanked, and they saw what was coming down the road and started taking steps earlier. Ford did a good job downsizing and streamlining their production and labor costs so they would be ready, so it was a combination of good decisions and timing that prevented them from needing a loan.

[Mac0083]

^---Dirty money is still dirty money, whether it is a gift or a loan.

And an update to my earlier rant: during the whole episode of Ultimate Factories, it seems like something went wrong with the particular chassis that they were following at EVERY step of the process. After the subframes were robotically welded together and being inspected, there was a spot-weld that set off a red flag. the Human inspector then had to eyeball it to give it the 'ok' or reject it. He was like, "that'll do." The whole attitude of the place was just, "that'll do." Later in the paint shop, the finish inspector found a few flaws and got the air grinder to rough it out, then he says, "hopefully that'll come out as shiny as it was before." HOPEFULLY!!!

I'm too afraid now to watch the Corvette episode of Ultimate Factories... it's made in Kentucky, famous for bourbon, moonshine, kissing cousins, and not much more. I can only imagine how them good folk look on camera, and how much class they must add to the aura of the Vette.

[AaronGTR]

Please educate me... how is it dirty money? Did it come from drug dealers, or something illegal?


Anyway, I haven't seen the show you are talking about. I have been through the corvette plant in Kentucky though (twice) and I can assure you the people there are much more proud of the cars they build. I went through the Grand Am plant in Lansing too, and didn't really see any major problems there. It was quite a modern facility.

I dunno... it seems like maybe you had some naive notions of what went on in assembly plants? I've been involved in manufacturing businesses before and I'll tell 'ya what... there are some factories and businesses that are MUCH worse than the current US auto industry. They are a heck of a lot better than they were in the 80's too! They have to control costs, and there are certain specs and standards they have to meet. Something might not end up 100% perfect, but if it's above a certain spec well... then it's "good enough". If you think Honda and Toyota don't do that too you are a fool! Every car that comes out of their factories aren't "perfect" either. They are building budget cars, not Steinway pianos.

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by Mac0083

............I'm too afraid now to watch the Corvette episode of Ultimate Factories... it's made in Kentucky, famous for bourbon, moonshine, kissing cousins, and not much more. I can only imagine how them good folk look on camera, and how much class they must add to the aura of the Vette.

First of all, go **** yourself, then research how long Ford had an assembly plant in Louisville, KY......

[Mac0083]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Please educate me... how is it dirty money? Did it come from drug dealers, or something illegal?

^well, if you've been reading up on Zedd heads conspiracy thread....
But seriously though, when the govt is involved in anything, if it ain't down right dirty, then it's tainted! sure, they paid back the money, but govt was/maybe still is the largest share holder. when a president can order the ceo of a private corp to go, and install his own man, "car czar,"at the helm, one who has no experience in the business world or car design, ugh. don't get me started.

Camaros aren't steinways, you're right. maybe that's the problem, as i saw the other episodes were about the Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche 911. Now That was a sense of Pride! honest to God, what i remember most is the 100 watt smile on the lady's face that stitches together the leather for the seats. with the biggest smile that i have ever seen, she proudly proclaimed, "I make the seats!"
I was just really upset that somebody like me not even liking the camaro has more passion for it than the people throwing it together, and i do mean throwing.

and seriously Aaron, nobody here can mention toyota quality with reliability after the run away cars. know what i never understood? if my gas pedal stuck to the floor, i would just push the gear selector to "N" and then i could turn the key off.

after all this, i think i'm guilty of post whoring. sorry guys.

[Mac0083]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

.....go **** yourself......

<---if i had a pork-u-pine as my avatar, i might have to.

FYI Greg, i'm from West Virginia, the same breed as Kentucky, so it's ok when I make fun of hill-billies.

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by Mac0083

<---if i had a pork-u-pine as my avatar, i might have to.

FYI Greg, i'm from West Virginia, the same breed as Kentucky, so it's ok when I make fun of hill-billies.

Ha, ha, how do those breed, anyway....I mean the porcupines...
Anyway I don't think the Corvettes were as much a "classy sports car" as compared to others as much as they were a muscle car, we rednecks had em too in the 60's. It meant you had a little money to spend, not necessarily class.

[caraudiodave]

sheesh the ignorance in this thread makes me sick.

Ford did take money from the gov., it just wasnt labeled as a loan. The Government gave all of the big 3 money toward alternate energy research. GM put that money toward the Volt, which gets over 100 mpg. What did ford put it toward? a twin turbo v6, called Ecoboost, or did that money go toward the ford fiesta, which is made im Mexico. (great way to spend US money)

Also, people, stop referring to your OPINION on the Camaros looks as fact. some people like it, some dont. theres a reason why its selling well. I personally dont like any of the new pony cars.

in the 90s and early 00s mustangs outsold F-bodies for one reason. they were marketed toward the masses. They were easy to get into, comfortable to drive, and still sprty. F-bodys sucked to get in and out of, drove like old muscle cars, and sucked for long distance drives because of the low seating position. The f-body sold mainly to car enthusiasts who wanted a fast and aerodynamic car. How many commercials did GM have for the F-body during the 4th gen?

Back on topic (and off my soap box), its great to add hp from an existing motor. GM shouldnt spend to change a motor on a car only 1 year after it comes out. it costs a lot of money for R&D on a car before releasing it, just to waste it a year later. They did this same maneuver on the late 4th Gen F-body v8. LS1 had 350hp, but they claimed anywhere from 310 to 330hp throughout the years and models. THey changes stuff like cams, intake manifolds, and gearing to get the numbers to change.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by Mac0083

Camaros aren't steinways, you're right. maybe that's the problem, as i saw the other episodes were about the Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche 911. Now That was a sense of Pride! honest to God, what i remember most is the 100 watt smile on the lady's face that stitches together the leather for the seats. with the biggest smile that i have ever seen, she proudly proclaimed, "I make the seats!"
I was just really upset that somebody like me not even liking the camaro has more passion for it than the people throwing it together, and i do mean throwing.

Well, yeah... but you are talking about the difference between a $30,000 car and a $230,000 car. Yes, it's possible to assemble a car to perfection, but not with the corporate standards in place at most factories. Like I said, I don't think you really understand what it's like to work in a manufacturing environment. Do you think those people really don't care? Or maybe they don't have a choice?

Those people aren't in charge and for the most part they have no decision making authority. They have to do what their bosses and what the company tells them. If they are told "you have to install X number of wire harness an hour" or "X defect won't affect the function of the car and no can see it once it's built so it is acceptable", then they have no choice, they have to let it go. It's that or quit their job, and how many people you think are going to do that in this economy? You gotta take a step back and look at it from another perspective man.

Those companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini are more like custom botique builders than normal factories. They use different manufacturing methods because they don't turn out the same kind of numbers, so they are able to have much stricter control over the process. If you want perfection, better start saving up for a Ferrari.

[Mac0083]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Do you think those people really don't care? Or maybe they don't have a choice?

If you want perfection, better start saving up for a Ferrari.

You could be right about that... the whole corporate culture thing, it starts at the top.

Italian car = passion, but perfection? The first time i saw a ferrari was an f-40 at a car show. imagine the excitement when my favorite car from "need for speed 2" video game is right in front of my eyes. Next, imagine the disgusting shock when someone pointed out that the headlamp was full of moisture. it was a brand new car, probably a trailer queen. the attendant car rep said, yeah, it's been like that.

old proverb, "never meet your heroes."

back on topic. that camaro DOHC v-6, is it part of either the 60* or 90* v6 family?

[3800SII]

Man... reading this thread bring back all the old memories I had of spanking Ford mustangs in my 99 Firebird with a V6. There was almost never any comparison in a race. I also never could tell for the life of me why more people bought mustangs over F-bodys in the first place because they were piss-assed slow. But after reading here it seems to make more sense. I have purchased two Firebirds, a Camaro, and a GrandAm... My younger brother bought two Saturns, and my mother has a Pontiac Sunfire.

Fast forward to today and see that GM no longer makes those brands with the exception of the Camaro after seven years. My whole family are finatics about GM cars, but we are also gluttons for punishment.

I was a little dissappointed with the Camaro V6 styling. Still, some folks like it, and some don't. I just can't for the life of me understand why the HELL they would put 3800 pounds on a car, rate it at 300 horses, and it runs only mid to low 14s? At least drop 300 to 400 pounds off that car, and it would be much, much more feasible. I would much sooner purchase the Cobalt SS that can run 13's out of the box and up to 280 horses with just an ECU tune.. I have already acknowledged that the Mustang V6 will probably beat the camaro on all fronts including performance and sales. It just seems GM can't win the pony wars....