WOT-Tech intakes vs. MMS intakes - Page 6

Vegeta · 08-05-2010, 08:48 PM

http://ontariopontiacclub.ca/index.php?topic=4358.0

Found it.

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/street/.../prod_242.html

This is the "stage 3" cam he is running. He is also running the Competition 3400 heads, not Race/Boost. His is very much a stage 2 equivalent and I would love to see the emissions it produces.

AaronGTR · 08-05-2010, 10:57 PM

Interesting. I'd certainly like to see the car and slips. And I'm not saying I doubt his car either, but a few things don't add up.

One, he says he's been tuning GA's for 9 years.... neither DHP nor HPtuner has been available for the car for that long.

Two, it doesn't add up on the 1/4 mile calculator. Assuming stock weight of a GA and a 180lb driver, you are looking at almost 3300lbs. To run a 13.2 you'd need 285whp, and that's assuming a perfect launch. A fwd car even with DR's you can basically add 2-3 tenths to that, meaning you'd need over 300whp to run a 13.2.... and then there's the slow shifting automatic. Now, I've never heard of anyone yet making over 300whp without boost in one of these cars. Add in the other factors, and this guy either has one extremely narly build, or the track timing was way off, or something else.

slw240sx · 08-06-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Uh, why should I care? This is just the internet after all, and I personally have no vested interest in either company. All I have is my opinion on who makes better parts and that's it.

Not really considering the time and comparing it to the previous NA record and what these cars typically run stock in NA form. And it's not like turbocharging these cars is that easy either. Since no one makes a kit and it was never designed for boost from the factory, there are quite a lot of modifications needed to run boost safely and properly. Most people cheap out on the parts and construction trying to build an affordable kit and then end up being unreliable and selling everything before they even get any results... because they didn't spend the time/money to design it properly with good parts.

My point is a turbo on these cars that will be any good will still end up costing more than an NA build.

pretty much the same in the 240sx world too. guys try and turbo the stock 2.4L motors that are not really built to handle boost.they always cheap on parts and half ass **** and the motors are ticking time bombs. most often never run correct and end up getting parted out to the next moron that has grand dreams of a 500$ turbo setup that will run 11's.
I guess i am spoiled in the fact that i have always had what ever is needed to turbo just about any car at my finger tips and the knowledge of what it takes to make setups safe for many years now. That and i can build nice turbo headers for any car for cheaper then most people can cobble together **** pile headers.

i am not against WOT tech NA at all, more so building an NA car in general. its just not my thing. I cant see spending 1500$ on heads 300 on a cam, 300 on intakes 250 on a TB and 600+ on headers 100+ on a CAI the gains to me just dont justify the money spent. Thats me though. im the kind of person that adds up a good NA build cost and a turbo cost and sees that if there is a difference of thousand or two then id save up more money to follow the path the leads to more gains per dollar spent.
Then again i also can do all my own labor, all my own fab work. which for the normal car enthusiast is well above their knowledge base or skill level. most people cant afford to shell out 20+ hours of labor in installs, tuning and fabrication. Not many aftermarkets have customers that can afford that.

slw240sx · 08-06-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Interesting. I'd certainly like to see the car and slips. And I'm not saying I doubt his car either, but a few things don't add up.

One, he says he's been tuning GA's for 9 years.... neither DHP nor HPtuner has been available for the car for that long.

Two, it doesn't add up on the 1/4 mile calculator. Assuming stock weight of a GA and a 180lb driver, you are looking at almost 3300lbs. To run a 13.2 you'd need 285whp, and that's assuming a perfect launch. A fwd car even with DR's you can basically add 2-3 tenths to that, meaning you'd need over 300whp to run a 13.2.... and then there's the slow shifting automatic. Now, I've never heard of anyone yet making over 300whp without boost in one of these cars. Add in the other factors, and this guy either has one extremely narly build, or the track timing was way off, or something else.

they are closer to 3K pounds curb weight is around 1,391Kg

MMGT1 · 08-06-2010, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegeta

http://ontariopontiacclub.ca/index.php?topic=4358.0

Found it.

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/street/.../prod_242.html

This is the "stage 3" cam he is running. He is also running the Competition 3400 heads, not Race/Boost. His is very much a stage 2 equivalent and I would love to see the emissions it produces.

It won't pass... his sticker is a little "shady" lets say

AaronGTR · 08-07-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slw240sx

they are closer to 3K pounds curb weight is around 1,391Kg

dude.... seriously? You are gonna try and tell me how much my own car weighs now?

Coupes are slightly lighter than sedans. Door sticker on my coupe says 3080lbs. I've weighed the car on a scale, full gas tank no driver, and it still was around 3100lbs. Add a typical 160-200lb driver and you are around 3300lbs race weight.

MMGT1 · 08-07-2010, 07:02 AM

I dont know if they label the car differently in the US, I doubt it. From what I understand, your GVW would be the car, a 175lb passenger for each seatbelt, and all fluid levels filled including gas tank.

MMGT1 · 08-07-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegeta

http://ontariopontiacclub.ca/index.php?topic=4358.0

Found it.

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/street/.../prod_242.html

This is the "stage 3" cam he is running. He is also running the Competition 3400 heads, not Race/Boost. His is very much a stage 2 equivalent and I would love to see the emissions it produces.

Just had a look at those specks and now his time does not equate to me either. Unless he has that engine in a Smart car, I dont see that time being accurate. He says he will be back down in this area for a meet and trak day this year. Ill make sure Im there if at all possible this time. Most of the stage 2 stuff is between 14.1 and 14.4, that is jsut too fast for the mods. Now if he has nitrous in there already, then that time I could accept...

Who knows though, maybe this is the freak you have all been looking for?????

geldartb · 08-07-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMGT1

I dont know if they label the car differently in the US, I doubt it. From what I understand, your GVW would be the car, a 175lb passenger for each seatbelt, and all fluid levels filled including gas tank.

that's how i thought it was. with 5 people figured it's 700lbs of weight

isnt the GVW something in the 3400 range. it's been awhile since i looked at the sticker

MMGT1 · 08-07-2010, 10:16 PM

Wikipedia says:
A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum allowable total mass of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight.
The difference between gross weight and curb weight is the total passenger and cargo weight capacity of the vehicle. For example, a pickup truck with a curb weight of 4,500 pounds (2,041 kg) might have a cargo capacity of 2,000 pounds (907 kg), meaning it can have a gross weight of 6,500 pounds (2,948 kg) when fully loaded.

So I missed the cargo rating in the GVW total

AaronGTR · 08-08-2010, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geldartb

that's how i thought it was. with 5 people figured it's 700lbs of weight

isnt the GVW something in the 3400 range. it's been awhile since i looked at the sticker

Yeah, GVWR is the total max weight rating of the car with all fluids full and it's passengers/cargo. My door sticker says 4014 GVWR and 899 load capacity, so that equals 3115 lbs curb weight. I think when I weighed my car last time I got 3080, meaning I had removed 35lbs, so that's where I got that from.

geldartb · 08-08-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Yeah, GVWR is the total max weight rating of the car with all fluids full and it's passengers/cargo. My door sticker says 4014 GVWR and 899 load capacity, so that equals 3115 lbs curb weight. I think when I weighed my car last time I got 3080, meaning I had removed 35lbs, so that's where I got that from.

i forgot what the sticker said but thanks for the info.

i want to find a scale to see what my car weighs in at.

HOYS · 08-08-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geldartb

i forgot what the sticker said but thanks for the info.

i want to find a scale to see what my car weighs in at.

Take some scrap metal to a recycling facility. Most have you roll onto a scale.

MMGT1 · 08-08-2010, 03:26 PM

Thats a good idea too, they will weigh you goin in and going out. You pay the difference, but you will have your "leaving" weight to go by.

AaronGTR · 08-08-2010, 08:31 PM

You could also go to a truck shop or DMV location depending on what you have around you. Most have a scale or know where you can find one, since trucks and trailers have to deal with weights all the time for registration and such. They are usually open to the public because people often have to use them to weigh boat trailers etc for trailer registration.

customgagt94 · 08-09-2010, 10:56 PM

ok so is this thing goin on?

Vegeta · 08-09-2010, 11:02 PM

What thing?

HOYS · 08-09-2010, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by customgagt94

ok so is this thing goin on?

Don't listen to Clint, he bought a Neon SRT4.

customgagt94 · 08-11-2010, 05:38 PM

ha.. the thing bout mms vs wot, thought there was gonna be a challenge.. u know the WHOLE 6 PAGE point to this thread... also i did buy a srt-4 but still HAVE AND LOVE MY GRAND AM.. it is i drove it today.

young gun · 08-11-2010, 07:36 PM

omg i'm so sick of this thread yet i keep coming back to read this whining ugh. either you buy both and test yourself and post results or stfu and wait for someone else to do it and form your own opinions for now. sorry to anyone that gets offended just felt like this needed to be said.

08-05-2010, 08:48 PM	#101
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	http://ontariopontiacclub.ca/index.php?topic=4358.0 Found it. http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/street/.../prod_242.html This is the "stage 3" cam he is running. He is also running the Competition 3400 heads, not Race/Boost. His is very much a stage 2 equivalent and I would love to see the emissions it produces. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-05-2010, 10:57 PM	#102
AaronGTR BlingWithBallz AKA: Aaron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Detroit area, MI Age: 43 Posts: 12,254 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT1 2dr	Interesting. I'd certainly like to see the car and slips. And I'm not saying I doubt his car either, but a few things don't add up. One, he says he's been tuning GA's for 9 years.... neither DHP nor HPtuner has been available for the car for that long. Two, it doesn't add up on the 1/4 mile calculator. Assuming stock weight of a GA and a 180lb driver, you are looking at almost 3300lbs. To run a 13.2 you'd need 285whp, and that's assuming a perfect launch. A fwd car even with DR's you can basically add 2-3 tenths to that, meaning you'd need over 300whp to run a 13.2.... and then there's the slow shifting automatic. Now, I've never heard of anyone yet making over 300whp without boost in one of these cars. Add in the other factors, and this guy either has one extremely narly build, or the track timing was way off, or something else. __________________ The few, the proud, the boosted! 13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011) See it here. the total package.

08-08-2010, 08:31 PM	#115
AaronGTR BlingWithBallz AKA: Aaron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Detroit area, MI Age: 43 Posts: 12,254 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT1 2dr	You could also go to a truck shop or DMV location depending on what you have around you. Most have a scale or know where you can find one, since trucks and trailers have to deal with weights all the time for registration and such. They are usually open to the public because people often have to use them to weigh boat trailers etc for trailer registration. __________________ The few, the proud, the boosted! 13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011) See it here. the total package.

08-09-2010, 10:56 PM	#116
customgagt94 GAGT - Member AKA: clinton Join Date: May 2009 Location: Columbia IL Posts: 126 Vehicle: 1994 grand am gt	ok so is this thing goin on? __________________ custom body kit, exhaust, paint job, shaved door handles, hood, 65mm throttle body, OBDII swap(MMS) injectors, msd ignition, sp5 17in wheels, custom A E D wing, custom head\tail lights

08-09-2010, 11:02 PM	#117
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	What thing? __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-07-2010, 07:02 AM	#107
MMGT1 GAGT - Member AKA: Paul Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Age: 49 Posts: 347 Vehicle: 2000 Firebird TA WS6	I dont know if they label the car differently in the US, I doubt it. From what I understand, your GVW would be the car, a 175lb passenger for each seatbelt, and all fluid levels filled including gas tank.

08-07-2010, 10:16 PM	#110
MMGT1 GAGT - Member AKA: Paul Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Age: 49 Posts: 347 Vehicle: 2000 Firebird TA WS6	Wikipedia says: A gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is the maximum allowable total mass of a road vehicle or trailer when loaded - i.e including the weight of the vehicle itself plus fuel, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight. The difference between gross weight and curb weight is the total passenger and cargo weight capacity of the vehicle. For example, a pickup truck with a curb weight of 4,500 pounds (2,041 kg) might have a cargo capacity of 2,000 pounds (907 kg), meaning it can have a gross weight of 6,500 pounds (2,948 kg) when fully loaded. So I missed the cargo rating in the GVW total

08-08-2010, 03:26 PM	#114
MMGT1 GAGT - Member AKA: Paul Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Age: 49 Posts: 347 Vehicle: 2000 Firebird TA WS6	Thats a good idea too, they will weigh you goin in and going out. You pay the difference, but you will have your "leaving" weight to go by.

08-11-2010, 05:38 PM	#119
customgagt94 GAGT - Member AKA: clinton Join Date: May 2009 Location: Columbia IL Posts: 126 Vehicle: 1994 grand am gt	ha.. the thing bout mms vs wot, thought there was gonna be a challenge.. u know the WHOLE 6 PAGE point to this thread... also i did buy a srt-4 but still HAVE AND LOVE MY GRAND AM.. it is i drove it today. __________________ custom body kit, exhaust, paint job, shaved door handles, hood, 65mm throttle body, OBDII swap(MMS) injectors, msd ignition, sp5 17in wheels, custom A E D wing, custom head\tail lights

08-11-2010, 07:36 PM	#120
young gun ON THAT WORK GRIND AKA: Erik Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Age: 28 Posts: 1,608 Vehicle: 00' GAGT	omg i'm so sick of this thread yet i keep coming back to read this whining ugh. either you buy both and test yourself and post results or stfu and wait for someone else to do it and form your own opinions for now. sorry to anyone that gets offended just felt like this needed to be said.