Misfiring #3 After LIM swap

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Originally Posted by Malaclypse;1149201
You can completely circumvent that problem by buying one of these: [URL="http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_2522_125/lisle_lis48500_push_rod_remover.html"

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_2522_125/lisle_lis48500_push_rod_remover.html[/url] . One of the best ways to spend $20, in my opinion.

Makes life so much easier. Hell I did an intake on a 3400 Grand Am in 3 hours today and I was taking my time. That tool helped out alot.

Been stuck on that website ever since the page popped up! Yes that would make life way easier when doing any work on the motor. There is tons of other good stuff on there!
I think Ill be fine too. Im going to Reno, NV tomorrow so it better. its only like a 3 hour drive.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Same problem again!!!! Cylinder 5 this time!!!!
WTFFFFFFFFF
Oh man good thing the Helicoil set I got had 10 Helicoils......
GRrrrr,
Ill post pics as the foking carnage continues.......

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Yes, Ok well I thought I was frustrated. Then...
Then the F ing Helicoil tap BROKE OFF IN THE BLOCK.
Grrr, I lubed the threads, did 1 turn in, 1/2 turn back.

Could have been in Reno by now...

[Malaclypse]

Sorry to say... but you're done, bro.

Unless you can back that thing out and get another tap in there.. you'll be needing a head.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Originally Posted by Malaclypse

Sorry to say... but you're done, bro.

Unless you can back that thing out and get another tap in there.. you'll be needing a head.

Yeah. Im slowly realizing that, Im already hard at work on other pliable options. I got my $57 back.
Are heads similar, like front and back?
Cause it would be easier to pull a head off the front of a 3400 than the back.
Im thinking the 3400 I pulled injectors off of. Gonna get me some head!
If it will fit..

[XtremeGaGt00]

its possible to get that tap out fyi..ive done it before..ive had to grind down a hardened set of needle nose pliers,,shoved them in the openings on the sides of the tap and spun it out.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Originally Posted by XtremeGaGt00

its possible to get that tap out fyi..ive done it before..ive had to grind down a hardened set of needle nose pliers,,shoved them in the openings on the sides of the tap and spun it out.

Hmm Good idea, I took a old socket driver and made a 'tool' that hooked in all 4 sides. The tap just keeps chipping off shorter.
With what options I'm facing, it may be worth getting a extra set just for this.
cause if I cant get it out within the first 30 mins tomorrow morning, Im taking the head off and I'll take it to a machine shop.

[AaronGTR]

Dang.... that sucks man. It's very strange that you would have that much trouble with rocker bolts stripping out the heads. I've never had one do that before.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

I think it is aftermath from my dad trying to 'help me out', he had his mechanic do my LIM gaskets. He cracked both middle ports on the LIM, so I would not put it past him to do some dumb crap like that. My dad has since dumped his ass, due to the fact that I did headgaskets in 14 hours and My dad was charged for 12 hours just for LIM gaskets?
Im not so mad about having to tap them out, where there's a will there's a way, but this, I was not expecting.

Im going to try to dremmel into the middle with a diamond bit and use a easy out, If that doesn't work, the head is going to come off and go into a machine shop.

jeez, fml, at the moment...

[Malaclypse]

Don't even bother with the dremel. Or an easy-out. If you're going to try anything use a cobalt reverse drill bit. Sometimes that'll bite whatever you're working on and back it out. Problem is the tap has a bite on the head. If it were just a snapped bolt it'd be different.

Your best bet is to pull the head and take it to the machine shop. Save yourself the frustration and risk of making a bad situation even worse.

And to answer your question, yes the front and rear heads are the same. Just go for the same model year if you can. Have it fluxed, decked and cleaned if you're going to install it. 3400 heads crack sometimes when the engines overheat.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Originally Posted by Malaclypse

Don't even bother with the dremel. Or an easy-out. If you're going to try anything use a cobalt reverse drill bit. Sometimes that'll bite whatever you're working on and back it out. Problem is the tap has a bite on the head. If it were just a snapped bolt it'd be different.

Your best bet is to pull the head and take it to the machine shop. Save yourself the frustration and risk of making a bad situation even worse.

And to answer your question, yes the front and rear heads are the same. Just go for the same model year if you can. Have it fluxed, decked and cleaned if you're going to install it. 3400 heads crack sometimes when the engines overheat.

After X,XXX tries, Im done! Nothing will 'bite' this metal its like a carbon steel, and it is very fragile, or pieces just chip off.
I cleaned my garage, organized my tools, made room for parts to come off, and I'm just about to start getting the head off.
ONE MORE question...
I have a gasket for the back head already to go back on.
Since I just installed the LIM gaskets 4 days ago, with the P&P intakes, I should be able to carefully re-use them right? I'll just clean the ridge really good and put more RTV. That should be fine right?

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, those taps are really hard to do anything with. The metal is very brittle for whatever reason. I would just take the heads off and take it to a machine shop. Or you might want to just get new heads depending on what condition they are in. Your dads mechanic friend may have messed up more threads from the sound of it. Although I have to say 12 hours for the LIM does not sound unreasonable. There is a lot of work to do to get everything off and get to it, and I've taken a long time to do LIM gaskets on cars that had other problems as well. Once you have the LIM off, there is very little left to remove to get the heads off, so an extra couple hours for that is normal. But cracking ports in the LIM is not.

As for re-using gaskets.... head gaskets definitely have to be replaced every time. LIM gaskets, well that's iffy. I wouldn't do it with the oem gaskets, but you might get away with it with felpros. You certainly increase your chance of having a leak by re-using them, but I did it once before and was ok. I only got the engine up to temp once though and didn't do any driving before tearing it back down. The shorter the time they've been on the engine the better.

[Malaclypse]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Although I have to say 12 hours for the LIM does not sound unreasonable.

I think 12 hours for a lower intake job is highly unreasonable. I work for a dealership and we sell them for half of that. I even add three tenths or so just to cover the oil change and fluid burpings that need to be done.

As for reusing the gaskets, I'm with Aaron. If the engine had only been up to temp once or so... it'd be fine. A couple of days may be fine. However its cheap peace of mind to know that you won't have a leak because you replaced that gasket again while you were in there.

I've re-used intake gaskets many times.. but that's always on cars that don't have coolant running through the intake. In the end its your call.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

The gaskets just came with the intakes so, there spankin new.
Im trying to be so careful with my head and forceful with that Fing tap.
Ya 12 hours does sound reasonable, but I guess this guy is a master mechanic and has been for 30 yrs...bla blah.
I did headgaskets in 14 hours and that was my first whack at any engine work. (on my grand am, not ever.. )
Idk my dad was pissed though about the LIM

Tool I make out of a 1/4 drive extension. (broken)


Heads coming off... 4:03 Cali Time. Gonna trade that Dew for a Brew very soon...

[02GT_SkyHigh]

OK!
Got the head off, valves, and pistons look good.
Finally, I get to relax tomorrow. Nothing Is open here until
Monday.
I HOPE when I go into the machine shop the guy says, 'Oh, ya, no problem give me 15 minutes!' haha Seeing the glass half-full or half-empty, your choice.

The carnage and NEW gaskets...





Freggin Monkey Butt Nutt Fuuk

[Malaclypse]

Sigh... I don't know why people unbolt the fuel lines from the rail...

Just remove the 13 holding the bracket on and twist the rail aside.. secure with bungee.

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, usually it isn't needed, but I have found a few times when it was difficult to get the the injectors out or back in the LIM with the fuel lines still attached. That was actually part of the problem when I did Mac's LIM gaskets and it took me about 12 hours... someone who had worked on the car previously had badly mangled his O-rings on the injectors, so I had to replace all those too. I figured he was getting a vacuum leak, some of them were that bad. Plus there were issues to fix with the EGR and EVAP too if I remember right. There always ends up being a whole bunch of things to fix that I find when working on other peoples cars that I don't have to do on mine, so it ends up taking longer.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

Note taken, but i needed to be able to close the hood also at night. Live on a way to busy street.
This is the re-placement set I got!

I think it broke for this reason VVV and also the fact the head was still fairly hot when i was tapping it.
The metal expanded at different rates and SNAP!
Im waiting to go to the machine shop (need a ride)
I think Im just going to do the other ones why I have the head off.

[02GT_SkyHigh]

FINALLY ITS OUT!!
I got a good referral and the guy did it in about 15 minutes and I gave him $20 so it worked out sweet! I helicoiled 3 more while I was back there.
Painted my UIM while I was waiting for a ride to the machine shop. I like it a lot!
I need 5 Qts of oil and an O-ring for the fuel rail. Got the LIM set so Ill be ready sor start-up tomorrow

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by 02GT_SkyHigh

FINALLY ITS OUT!!
I got a good referral and the guy did it in about 15 minutes and I gave him $20 so it worked out sweet! I helicoiled 3 more while I was back there.

Note the torque specs for LIM are different than what's in the Haynes manual, iirc.....

http://wot-tech.com/shop/cat_66.html