Milzy Motorsports headers with PICTURES!

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by solutions_auto

Maybe you should take your own advice.

You my friend are ----. That's all I will say. Back to the headers!

that there is un called for.

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by hahano404

that there is un called for.

somebody had to tell him. like I said, back to the headers.

Has anyone else gotten the headers or installed them yet?

EDIT: how about this, i apologize for any uncalled for remarks that I made. I don't like being put into a group, and some people here just have no common sense. So my apologies for being an "ass". I do not like to come off as a di** I also don't like to be talked down on by people that do not have that right. End of story, now please back to the headers!

i think pacesetters would be suitable below the salt belt. also part of the y would probably be best if welded together.

compared to stock its a great item. but like everyone has said, they are rust prone.

[roadie]

The Milzy headers look great and quality apears to be excellent, I would have had them on already if I wasn't racing all over the country every weekend, and working inbetween, and definitely wanted them on before the season final race here at my home track this weekend, but being that the downpipe came without O2 bungs had to wait for those replacement parts to arrive which just happened a couple days ago, so hopefully anytime after this weekends race I'll find a guy that can tig weld and also have time to get 'er done, and will not be spending the money to dyno test a before and after .. the gains I get are the gains I get, and they will be good and that's fine with me, the ET's will show me all I need to know

[unchained_01]

Way to go Gerald ! Same here. I don't see spending the funds on dyno tests for just headers. I would slot would agree with me that at least a 20 HP gain could be realized with these and a Borla cat back and some minor fuel/air tweaking

[tw0123]

I had heard that the S&S along with a CAI, p'n'p UIM/LIM and exhaust had given a 27 hp increase... given that these appear to be slightly larger in diameter I would hazard maybe close to 30 hp with the same mods... I have no basis for this, it is just theory...

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

now that we know your comprehension skills are low, let me explain something to you.

Cheap parts = very low initial price.

Cheaper parts = lowering a price to an acceptable level, aka opening the price range to a larger group.

Nowhere did I say that I want cheap parts, I just said that cheaper parts would suit more of the community with a lower income, and maybe lower income isn't the right word, maybe just not willing to spend an obnoxious amount of money on headers.

Now, I'm not saying that the Milzy headers aren't quality parts, what I am saying is I can't justify spending that much on a product already on the market, expecially if there are no tests showing horsepower increases as is or over the competitors.

its not a much about HP increases as it it about quality of parts. you can no way compare the crap pacesetter builds to what i build. i bet they they make the same HP gains if not more just based on my experience in building stuff like this day in and day out.

[steve1974]

doesnt milzy have a dyno? I remember the vid of the turbo ga build milzy put together and dyno'd to 400whp. Im sure it wouldnt be too big a deal for him to dyno his header install and note the difference.

[AaronGTR]

No. They dyno'd that car at another shop.

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by slw240sx

its not a much about HP increases as it it about quality of parts. you can no way compare the crap pacesetter builds to what i build. i bet they they make the same HP gains if not more just based on my experience in building stuff like this day in and day out.

lets see some dyno results then, especially on a high priced product, we're not talking ported intake manifolds anymore, this is a $1k+ set of headers.

I have no problem spending a grand on something that I know is going to give me power, and obviously quality built from the pictures. But if I can save $400 bucks and sacrifice 2-4 hp and be able to coat the pacesetters or find some S&S for cheap, I would definitely go that route.

A dyno would definitely help sales, that is a dyno sheet and probably a video for all the internet non-believers

[solutions_auto]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

lets see some dyno results then, especially on a high priced product, we're not talking ported intake manifolds anymore, this is a $1k+ set of headers.

I have no problem spending a grand on something that I know is going to give me power, and obviously quality built from the pictures. But if I can save $400 bucks and sacrifice 2-4 hp and be able to coat the pacesetters or find some S&S for cheap, I would definitely go that route.

A dyno would definitely help sales, that is a dyno sheet and probably a video for all the internet non-believers

Not trying to argue with you here....

But if all your worried about is the power gains between the two, there will probably be very little to no difference in power gains between them. The factory manifolds are junk and very restrictive, so the Pacesetter headers will still make the large HP gain that your looking for. The quality and the fit is where these headers are going to differ. With Milzy's (judging from his turbo hearders that I've seen) the headers will fit great, be built with good quality materials, and not have the leaking issues that Pacesetter is known for (not the mention rust problems).
I personally have had good luck with Milzy Motorsports, they finished my S&S headers and added V-band clamps. The headers fit really well, and the welds where beautiful.
That being said, if it does fit your budget better, I wouldn't be 100% against trying the ceramic coated Pacesetter headers. Just know that there could be some issues with them.

Note: I would also love to see some dyno results, but I highly doubt that Milzy is going to put the extra time and money in doing a before and after dyno pull.

[unchained_01]

I was being very conservative with my statement and I think that I you can afford them buy them if you can't go another route. I appreciate the fact that their are supporters for these platforms even thou they are extinct. Let's quit the childish arguments and whining about price. Even with the length of time it took to get them and the 02 sensor bung missing. These are a great addition to any serious performance build. I am not taking sides and would/will makes purchases from mike and ben in the upcoming year. Even thou this site is sponsored by Milzy. I am glad both support out platforms and intend to support them also.

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by solutions_auto

Not trying to argue with you here....

But if all your worried about is the power gains between the two, there will probably be very little to no difference in power gains between them. The factory manifolds are junk and very restrictive, so the Pacesetter headers will still make the large HP gain that your looking for. The quality and the fit is where these headers are going to differ. With Milzy's (judging from his turbo hearders that I've seen) the headers will fit great, be built with good quality materials, and not have the leaking issues that Pacesetter is known for (not the mention rust problems).
I personally have had good luck with Milzy Motorsports, they finished my S&S headers and added V-band clamps. The headers fit really well, and the welds where beautiful.
That being said, if it does fit your budget better, I wouldn't be 100% against trying the ceramic coated Pacesetter headers. Just know that there could be some issues with them.

Note: I would also love to see some dyno results, but I highly doubt that Milzy is going to put the extra time and money in doing a before and after dyno pull.

I agree with you, they probably did put more time into their headers than any other brand out there, but if there's no performance gain there what's the point, I feel like it would be cheaper to fix up the pacesetters or S&S which seem like an awesome deal. Idk, I wish someone had either of the headers and upgraded to Milzy and could let us know.

I also agree, I don't think Mike will do the dyno pull, just like he doesn't flowbench any of his stuff, unfortunately

Originally Posted by unchained_01

I was being very conservative with my statement and I think that I you can afford them buy them if you can't go another route. I appreciate the fact that their are supporters for these platforms even thou they are extinct. Let's quit the childish arguments and whining about price. Even with the length of time it took to get them and the 02 sensor bung missing. These are a great addition to any serious performance build. I am not taking sides and would/will makes purchases from mike and ben in the upcoming year. Even thou this site is sponsored by Milzy. I am glad both support out platforms and intend to support them also.

No one is arguing or complaining about price, I was commenting on the price compared to other companies and trying to find out more information about headers in general. I think you would agree that if Pacesetters were just as good hp wise as milzy but you'd have to spend 100 bucks on them to make them the same quality, you would probably go with pacesetters

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

I agree with you, they probably did put more time into their headers than any other brand out there, but if there's no performance gain there what's the point, I feel like it would be cheaper to fix up the pacesetters or S&S which seem like an awesome deal. Idk, I wish someone had either of the headers and upgraded to Milzy and could let us know.

I'm sure there is a performance difference. It might be even more for someone with a supercharger who has higher exhaust flow volume, because Milzy's headers have larger piping and smoother collectors. The point though isn't just the power gain. It's the fact that they will be easier to install, not leak, and last longer. And it would cost you a hell of a lot more than $100 to make a set of pacesetters as good as Milzy's. Hell I don't even think it's possible. Believe me though, after having a set of TOG headers for going on 8 years now... I would have paid more upfront to have them designed and made a little better, and they were $800 headers to begin with. I've been dealing with leaking and difficulty of removing and installing issues the entire time, I've had to have them re-coated once, and I've just now got around to modifying them to make them better. It's a PITA not having a set of headers that are built perfect!

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

I agree with you, they probably did put more time into their headers than any other brand out there, but if there's no performance gain there what's the point, I feel like it would be cheaper to fix up the pacesetters or S&S which seem like an awesome deal. Idk, I wish someone had either of the headers and upgraded to Milzy and could let us know.

I also agree, I don't think Mike will do the dyno pull, just like he doesn't flowbench any of his stuff, unfortunately



No one is arguing or complaining about price, I was commenting on the price compared to other companies and trying to find out more information about headers in general. I think you would agree that if Pacesetters were just as good hp wise as milzy but you'd have to spend 100 bucks on them to make them the same quality, you would probably go with pacesetters

It would be hard to get a STOCK dyno pull these days. Nobody can buy a NEW Grand Am, bolt on some headers, and do dynos. Anything is better than stock.

I remind people all the time, MMS does not just do N-Body junk. I'd say that a good bit of his focus is on other platforms that make him more money. He has a slight hard-on for the N-Body and still makes one of the best efforts in the community to make some of the best parts available.

To the "MMS does not flow bench parts": Wrong. Dead wrong. Mike (as others) know that flow numbers aren't everything, they are a bad way to measure performance of a certain part. This is a different debate, it has been talked about, don't muck this thread up with it. Search for the other threads.

To make Pacesetters the "Same" quality you would have to do a good bit of work.

IIRC you have to get a downpipe made for pacesetter headers to make them bolt up. (Correct me if I'm wrong). The primaries are smaller, the connectors aren't as good (V-Band vs Dougnut), Redoing all of the connectors would be WAY more than 100 bucks if you have someone do it.

Coating: Everyone knows, ArmorCoat is NOT ceramic coating like we know on other headers. Armor Coat is crap. Expect 175+ shipping for a good Ceramic Coat on the headers.

[O1GAGT]

Originally Posted by HOYS

It would be hard to get a STOCK dyno pull these days. Nobody can buy a NEW Grand Am, bolt on some headers, and do dynos. Anything is better than stock.

Find someone with a stock grand am that is mechanically sound and strap it on the dyno (should put down roughly 140 -145 HP in stock form). Install the headers on the same car and dyno again. Honestly I don't think a before dyno is even necessary as most of us know within a few horsepower what a stock 3400 GA puts down. For the purpose of marketing, MMS could offer somone who has bought the headers dyno reimbursement upon recieving video and dyno print outs

Originally Posted by HOYS

To make Pacesetters the "Same" quality you would have to do a good bit of work.
IIRC you have to get a downpipe made for pacesetter headers to make them bolt up. (Correct me if I'm wrong). The primaries are smaller, the connectors aren't as good (V-Band vs Dougnut), Redoing all of the connectors would be WAY more than 100 bucks if you have someone do it.

You are joking right, in order to get the Pacesetters anywhere near the same quality, you would need to start from scratch with quality materials, a better design. The Pacesetters look like a nightmare to install, with a lot of places to leak.

Originally Posted by HOYS

Coating: Everyone knows, ArmorCoat is NOT ceramic coating like we know on other headers. Armor Coat is crap. Expect 175+ shipping for a good Ceramic Coat on the headers.

I had a set of S&S headers coated by a local company that specializes metal coatings, in which the ceramic coating was $150 for the set. They had a better coating option would have been $225, which would have been the way to go if they were turbo headers.

I still think that if a vendor were to come out with tubular log style manifolds, such as the ZZP Power Log, they would do well in sales if they could keep the price around $400.00

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by O1GAGT

Find someone with a stock grand am that is mechanically sound and strap it on the dyno (should put down roughly 140 -145 HP in stock form). Install the headers on the same car and dyno again. Honestly I don't think a before dyno is even necessary as most of us know within a few horsepower what a stock 3400 GA puts down. For the purpose of marketing, MMS could offer somone who has bought the headers dyno reimbursement upon recieving video and dyno print outs

Back in the good ol' days.....



Note the mods listed in the caption:





The results are a little "skewed"

It was needed to post that horizontally so the print could be read.

[HOYS]

Whats with the crazy text?

I was trying to make the point that Pacesetters wouldn't be worth the cost to modify to make them anywhere near Milzy's quality.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by trewyn15

lets see some dyno results then, especially on a high priced product, we're not talking ported intake manifolds anymore, this is a $1k+ set of headers.

I have no problem spending a grand on something that I know is going to give me power, and obviously quality built from the pictures. But if I can save $400 bucks and sacrifice 2-4 hp and be able to coat the pacesetters or find some S&S for cheap, I would definitely go that route.

A dyno would definitely help sales, that is a dyno sheet and probably a video for all the internet non-believers

its sad that you think 1K is expensive when it comes to custom performance parts. you would have a heart attack if you tried to build a turbo car... some people just believe in buying and supporting companies that produce good products, and not supporting people that will just mass produce **** to make a buck.