42lb or 36lb Injectors?

[G.I.Ceo]

Originally Posted by eckoxl

They are the same thing.

Thought so. So where did you get yours from?

[eckoxl]

zzp.

[HOYS]

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Injectors.aspx

42.5's

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Injectors.aspx

60's

60's are like 10 dollars more...again... why not?

[MAC the KNIFE]

^ you act like theres nothing wrong with going way too big on injectors. too big can be a problem iirc. i'm almost stock so should i go ahead and do the 60lbs anyways b/c of my CAI?

when you get too big of an injector it sprays for such a short amount of time and sprays so furiously that fuel can puddle instead of atomizing.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by HOYS

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Injectors.aspx

42.5's

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Injectors.aspx

60's

60's are like 10 dollars more...again... why not?

i gots them sh*ts here quit sending people to competition fool

[zukiracer19]

external wastegate is much easier to mess around with, you're not as restricted. and when it opens up, make a helluva badass sounding car.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

external wastegate is much easier to mess around with, you're not as restricted. and when it opens up, make a helluva badass sounding car.

Again, zuki showing how clueless he really is about turbos. You don't need an external waste gate. Not with those manifolds and a 2.5" DP. Externals can give slightly better response and boost control, and they are definitely better for higher power levels where an internal one might not provide enough flow to prevent over spinning the turbine, but for lower to medium power levels an internal waste gate is plenty sufficient and should be easier to work with on your setup since it takes up less space. You don't have to have a lot of room then to fit the piping and the waste gate.

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE

^ you act like theres nothing wrong with going way too big on injectors. too big can be a problem iirc. i'm almost stock so should i go ahead and do the 60lbs anyways b/c of my CAI?

when you get too big of an injector it sprays for such a short amount of time and sprays so furiously that fuel can puddle instead of atomizing.

Dude, you really don't know what your talking about. Stop it.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE

^ you act like theres nothing wrong with going way too big on injectors. too big can be a problem iirc. i'm almost stock so should i go ahead and do the 60lbs anyways b/c of my CAI?

when you get too big of an injector it sprays for such a short amount of time and sprays so furiously that fuel can puddle instead of atomizing.

thats the whole reason for a tune... you should never change injector size with out actually changing things in the PCM. for him 60's would probably not have much of a problem idling and would be good to have so he would not have to upgrade later when he wants to crank up the boost. and anyone with a turbo car will tell you it only takes a few hours of driving to realize you are going to surpass what you had in mind as good enough HP and boost.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

external wastegate is much easier to mess around with, you're not as restricted. and when it opens up, make a helluva badass sounding car.

internal gate is easier. you bolt on turbo hook up a vacuum line and you have instant wastegate. external you have to make a dump tube figure out where to place the gate and then fab up a pipe and flange to mount it on. an it sounds like **** running open dump all the time. its like nice exhaust note then bam exhaust leak..

[G.I.Ceo]

Originally Posted by slw240sx

thats the whole reason for a tune... you should never change injector size with out actually changing things in the PCM. for him 60's would probably not have much of a problem idling and would be good to have so he would not have to upgrade later when he wants to crank up the boost. and anyone with a turbo car will tell you it only takes a few hours of driving to realize you are going to surpass what you had in mind as good enough HP and boost.

So what your saying is just go ahead and buy 60lb injectors and then tune for them? I only want to do this once and make it count. I don't cheapen anything so I will buy right the first time.

Originally Posted by slw240sx

internal gate is easier. you bolt on turbo hook up a vacuum line and you have instant wastegate. external you have to make a dump tube figure out where to place the gate and then fab up a pipe and flange to mount it on. an it sounds like **** running open dump all the time. its like nice exhaust note then bam exhaust leak..

So what you pay for in a turbo with internal waste gate will save you time and a lot of headaches down the road. I was going to get get a turbo with a internal waste gate from the get go. How do you feel about Turbonetics turbos? Or do you have your own recommendations for a good turbo company? Also I do know that I want a dual ball bearing one.

[zukiracer19]

Originally Posted by slw240sx

internal gate is easier. you bolt on turbo hook up a vacuum line and you have instant wastegate. external you have to make a dump tube figure out where to place the gate and then fab up a pipe and flange to mount it on. an it sounds like **** running open dump all the time. its like nice exhaust note then bam exhaust leak..

dump it from crossover right to the downpipe... weld 2 flanges... how hard is that?

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

dump it from crossover right to the downpipe... weld 2 flanges... how hard is that?

Dude, shut up already. You are an F'in idiot.




As for injector sizing.... yes, you technically can have too large an injector, even if you tune for it. There is a limit to how short you can make in injector pulse and how far you can turn down fuel pressure before you don't have a good spray pattern and get good atomization. You might be able to get the car to idle, but it won't idle well and will run dirty at low throttle. That said, I don't think 60 lb/hr injectors would really be big enough to have that issue... but I also don't think they are necessary to support the power level he will probably hit with the other hardware he is planning to use. I think 42's would be enough. But ya know... do your own research and make your own decisions. Good general rule is not to go overboard on the injectors, but pick something with at least the ability to make 20% more power than you plan on making and they should run well in the range you will run them.

[grandam01]

Ok to help you with the problem and to keep you from listening to opinion, here is the formula. It is you goal BHP times BSFC which is typically a value of .60 for boosted applications. then you divide that by the number of injectors by the percentage of duty cycle you wish to run, (BHPX.60/6x.80) the recommended is 80% to get the most life and efficiency from the injectors, and to answer your question 42 lbs is not stock for any fbody. I believe 26 and 28 lbs were stock sizes.

How much boost do you plan on running? If you plan to make 400 bhp 50 lb injectors are the correct size to maintain the 80% duty cycle.

Here is a link to a site that has the formula. http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

[zukiracer19]

I'm an idiot because my car on its best day barely runs and has never run as good as yours?

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

I'm an idiot because my car on its best day barely runs and has never run as good as yours?

Yes. And because you don't know wtf you are talking about... ever.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

dump it from crossover right to the downpipe... weld 2 flanges... how hard is that?

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Ever.

[zukiracer19]

You weld 2 flanges, one on the crossover, one on the downpipe, set the wastegate on top of it... there ya go.

[AaronGTR]

It's not that simple. Not if you want it to work properly. But then... you don't know anything about designing turbo systems, and your car never worked properly... so I don't expect you to understand.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

dump it from crossover right to the downpipe... weld 2 flanges... how hard is that?

for most people impossible, unless you can weld with bubble gum now and noone told me about it...

cost of the gate 250.00 for a real tial. cost to have that made by even a hack fabrication shop 65-130.00. then honestly some shops wont work on the stuff he bought. I almost denied the previous owner to even mess with it. imagine that a shop modifys that stuff and then the customer goes around telling people such and such shop did this. that shop now looks like it does bad quality work for people and the people with real money to spend will shy away. I know from experiance. i am a very capable and talented fabricator and doing these repair and mod jobs has burnt my rep with some higher end jobs until they see my actual high end work from other customers.


a internal gate turbo is just simpler for not much power. hell we have made 400hp on a 2L 4 cylinder with internal gated GT2871 turbos.


as for turbos, stick with garrett. i shy away from turbonectics. the failure rate we experienced while we were distributors was way too high to continue selling them. i am not talking 1 or 5 i am talking 50-70K worth in a few years. we had pretty good luck with masterpower from brazil over 40K of turbos sold and only 3 defective and those were more then likely from non primed startups.


we are a garrett retailer if you need a source to them. i can get fairly good pricing if you have a size or HP goal in mind.


as for injectors, you do run the risk of having idle problems the larger you go, how ever 60lbs is not that big and should be easy to tune for and have still idle like factory. you will need tuned and you will need to bring the car to a tuner with dyno access. so i would assume you would come down and see milzy to get that handled. a mail order tune will not suffice. your power goal dictates your injector choice, i always suggest to buy one size up from your original goal because more often then not the customer ends up wanting more then they thought and then have to sell and replace injectors which they could have just done a bigger to start and been alright.