FUTURE turbo build discussion....go easy haha

[caraudiodave]

Originally Posted by KillNThrill24

my v6 F-body doesnt have nearly the market my N-body does

I disagree. While I do agree about getting a v8 in an Fbody, a v6 is still better than a GA, as long as its a 3.8 and not a 3.4. You dump that same $20k into a v6 camaro and it will be close to the 400-450hp goal, and it will still take the power much better than a GA.

You still have the same suspension, brakes, roll cage support as the v8 cars, and the 3.8 is a slightly better motor platform than the 3400.

either way, you can get a v8 Fbody for pretty cheap these days so a v6 is kinda pointless.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by caraudiodave

so you want to do this down the road...what you dont get is that the 3400/3500/3900 is a dead motor platform, obsolete. Whatever companies make parts for these motors probably wont be doing it in 5-10 years.

There is something to be said for unique, but theres also something to be said for wasting your time/money.

Dont get me wrong, I love the N-body. It was one of my favorite cars that ive owned, but call it what it is, a fwd car with a motor that was barely up to specs when it came out in 99. I like its styling and its a fun car to drive. With 175 hp stock, I would not expect to build it with more than 250 or so hp. As youve seen in the replies, you need to worry about tranny, half shafts, brakes, suspension, and of course body flex. Its a practical project for those who are seasoned at working on cars. If you want a project to learn about cars with you should start off with an easier platform (like F-body Camaro/trans am or fox body mustang).

i used to not really like your forum persona, now i really like you after this thread. thought i would just put that out there

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by caraudiodave

so you want to do this down the road...what you dont get is that the 3400/3500/3900 is a dead motor platform, obsolete. Whatever companies make parts for these motors probably wont be doing it in 5-10 years.

There is something to be said for unique, but theres also something to be said for wasting your time/money.

Dont get me wrong, I love the N-body. It was one of my favorite cars that ive owned, but call it what it is, a fwd car with a motor that was barely up to specs when it came out in 99. I like its styling and its a fun car to drive. With 175 hp stock, I would not expect to build it with more than 250 or so hp. As youve seen in the replies, you need to worry about tranny, half shafts, brakes, suspension, and of course body flex. Its a practical project for those who are seasoned at working on cars. If you want a project to learn about cars with you should start off with an easier platform (like F-body Camaro/trans am or fox body mustang).

While i appreciate the wisdom in ur posts i must admit i dont think anyone is going to deterr from doing this, even if i cant hit 500hp, if i shoot for the stars ill atleast land on the moon i understand that theres alot of things that goes against what id like to accomplish, but it doesnt mean its impossible, feasible maybe not, expensive most likely, possibly something thatd be one of a kind yes, worth it to me, you bet as ive stated before this car is my first, and i plan to keep it forever, im not going to sell it, part it out, crash it, r!ce it out, when its all said and done whatever i end up with itl b driven a few times a week garage kept and maintained like i would with a 60s muscle car or any classical car for that matter

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by KillNThrill24

my v6 F-body doesnt have nearly the market my N-body does

i dont plan on keeping it v6 very long tho im scowering the salvage yards looking for a wrecked z28/ss/ws6 etc and put a v8 back on the road. but still i have tried finding cool stuff for the v6 to make it more fun to drive but there simply is nothing to offer. F-bodies are completely pointless unless its a v8. i def wish i had saved a little more money and bought a z28 but i was a little younger, far dumber, and at the time hated my GAGT.

if you want my honest opinion, do what you want to do. there are always going to be people telling you not to, and there are always going to be people telling you TO do it. it all depends on how much you like your car, and like HOYS said how long you plan on keeping it. i wont do a turbo build on my GAGT because of the cost. it just cost far too much. and i have 0 desire to get rid of my car. i fully intend on running it so far into the ground that it will need to be crushed. like stated by other users its the platform thing. the grand ams were not intended to have a whole hell of a lot of power in them, especially being a fwd car. but dont let that stop you from doing it. it just depends on you and how you plan on using the car

Thank you and for everyone else thats given input, i do appreciate it all guys

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by caraudiodave

I disagree. While I do agree about getting a v8 in an Fbody, a v6 is still better than a GA, as long as its a 3.8 and not a 3.4. You dump that same $20k into a v6 camaro and it will be close to the 400-450hp goal, and it will still take the power much better than a GA.

You still have the same suspension, brakes, roll cage support as the v8 cars, and the 3.8 is a slightly better motor platform than the 3400.

either way, you can get a v8 Fbody for pretty cheap these days so a v6 is kinda pointless.

I thought the general consensus was that the 34/35 was a better investment then the 38? Do have to agree that a v8 fbody is pretty cheap to come by now, thats part of the reason why my nexy cars will b a v8

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by young gun

Rofl

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by Reaper3240

I thought the general consensus was that the 34/35 was a better investment then the 38? Do have to agree that a v8 fbody is pretty cheap to come by now, thats part of the reason why my nexy cars will b a v8

People on this forum think the 3.4/3.5 is better than a 3800...I'd rather have a 3800...

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by Reaper3240

Again no disrespect but you dont know what i do and dont know how to do/about, im fairly sure that from my previous posts you can tell that i have atleast got a grasp, however generalized it is, of the concept of boost. I want to do the work myself, cause at the end of the day id rather say, hey me and some buddies of mine, or just me did that, not i paid a garage to do it for me. Not saying that those speed shops/specalty garages will never see a visit from me slight correction the budget was referring to a 300 hp build not a 500 build. The parts obviously i cant machine myself so yes theyd be used from venders, then again idk anyone whos built say their own fmic for instance. Would also see shops like that for dyno runs and tunes, although dhp/hp tuners are on my list as well, left a few out at post one cause you guys dont need a rehash of things u know to be
needed again no disrespect and im not trying to be brazen

i wasnt meaning to be disrepectful either. I am just blunt about this stuff because in my business if you are not plain out blunt you will have a wet behind the ears kid waste 5 hours of your time talking about their build and asking questions. while i do not mind this all the time, my time is valuable and it does get old. You have a very basic understanding of car modification, maybe in another year or so you will have a better grasp on it. Maybe by then you will also realize how lack luster this platform is for a performance car of that caliber. there are reasons we build 240sx's Rx7's F bodys, and other cars like DSM's there over all performance capability is far greater then a grand am.

[KillNThrill24]

Originally Posted by young gun

whhhaat-df ..... iv never heard of a 10sec 3800 thats ridiculous. ok so you proved me wrong but still, id rather have the roar of a v8 than the purr of a v6

and in terms of reliability i hav to say my 3800 has ZERO mechanical issues, its only at 125xxx but still. whereas my 3400 has had more issues than i could possibly count. and my 3800 has no dash lights, while my 3400 is a christmas tree

[HOYS]

A good bit of W-Bodies are in the 11 second range, people who dump some more money into them get into 10's.

Keep in mind that Tim's Firebird was half backed, the intercooler box was in the passenger seat, and it had just about every part possible.

[blckgagt]

While I agree that there are plenty of other platforms that can made to out perform the nbody or even the 3400 for far less, I choose it because they are few and far between to see any 3400 built up. It's beyond a money issue to me but more of originality. Either way to each their own and I certainly respect anyone who has a well built car.

[KillNThrill24]

Originally Posted by blckgagt

While I agree that there are plenty of other platforms that can made to out perform the nbody or even the 3400 for far less, I choose it because they are few and far between to see any 3400 built up. It's beyond a money issue to me but more of originality. Either way to each their own and I certainly respect anyone who has a well built car.

now that i can respect. because your completely right, there are next to no built up 3400's out there. however there are a million and a half F-bodies and mustangs out ther that are heavily modified. so very true statement!

and HOYS thats ridiculous dude that thing is purely built to drag. iv never seen anything like that before, especially with the cooler IN the car like that. its very cool tho i hav to say. i wonder how much criticism he takes for spending all that money on a v6

[HOYS]

I know Tim personally and he is a cool dude who runs a shop here in Dayton. I don't think many people gave him flack because he beat a good bit of people at the track :P

He also rebuilds 4T65s for a good bit of W-Body guys.

He did sell the car a year or so back for pretty cheap considering all the money put into it.

[tipnitty]

All that work into a v6? No thanks.

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by tipnitty

All that work into a v6? No thanks.

Keep in mind he worked for Intense when he built the car...

[tipnitty]

Doesn't matter who I worked for, I would build an LSx many many many times over before I even contemplated doing work on a v6. That's just me.

[rocketfast123]

Originally Posted by caraudiodave

You dump that same $20k into a v6 camaro and it will be close to the 400-450hp goal, and it will still take the power much better than a GA.

Nope with about $1500ish and junk yard parts, you can have a turbo 450hp 3.8. And a car you could drive everyday with a/c.

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by tipnitty

Doesn't matter who I worked for, I would build an LSx many many many times over before I even contemplated doing work on a v6. That's just me.

If you worked for a shop that did performance 3800s...I betcha you would do a performance 3800 car...

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by Reaper3240

I dont really have a set budget, as this is a future build im projecting a better job/own place/ etc. I agree with everything you said except for for the last part-ish, i like a challenge, to be unique, different then the normal modder, sure i could go spend 38k from a ford dealer for the new 5.0 to have what 450-ish hp? -loan obviously - why even bother to mod a car to begin with? If i wanted a 200hp hp car rwd with better aftermarket, couldve got a v6 mustang for cheap, lots of them here, truth is i didnt base my choice of vic on fuel eco or power, i based it on what i pictured myself in, what car looked like me ina sense, wasnt till only a few years ago i had an intrest in modding, to b creative, different, one of a kind, same reason you guys do it anyone can take the easy way out and buy something, but to me an objects worth is based on what the owner perceives it to be. Not trying to be ignorant or disrepect anyone here but it is FUTURE based, i just wanted to get a better feel from people whove actually boosted their cars and forged their own vehical based on an idea as to what i could possibly do to achieve my goals, again not trying to be ignorant, i look up to all you guys for taking a platform -n body - and pushing its boundries

Hey, I get all that.... that's why I kept mine for so long and why I've kept working on it. I've been the only owner... had it since 2000... been modding it since 2003. I'll tell you what though... I've had the supercharger for a long time, and it's taken me almost the last ten years to really learn about this platform, this engine, about boost and modding in general. I've gone through a lot of parts and changes on my car. My engine has been take apart several times, broke down several times, and needs work right now (it has a rod knock). I've spent well over $60k including the price of the car trying to be "unique" and "different", and if I had to do it over again I'd do some things differently.

I wouldn't spend nearly as much money and I would not go for as much power out of the engine. Why? Because unless you already have a ton of knowledge, experience, and money... you will have poor results with this platform. And it will still cost a lot more to get the power you want out of it compare to another platform. Bottom line is, the car was just not engineered to do the kinds of things some of us are trying to do with it, and that places limiting factors on it. It also makes it more expensive and difficult to overcome those limits rather than starting with a car that has better engineering and design to start with. OEM's spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars designing and testing a car to perform a certain way. There's only so much a "back yard tuner" can do to change that, and I've seen them ruin a car more often than not in the process. I'm certainly not happy with how my car runs right now and that it's not dependable after all the money I've spent. Anyway that's my $.02. Take it as you will.

[caraudiodave]

Originally Posted by slw240sx

i used to not really like your forum persona, now i really like you after this thread. thought i would just put that out there

My comments on here are usually tongue in cheek. I was much more series several years ago when I had a grand am.

Originally Posted by HOYS

People on this forum think the 3.4/3.5 is better than a 3800...I'd rather have a 3800...

Originally Posted by tipnitty

All that work into a v6? No thanks.

Are you all forgetting about the '84-'87 buick Grand National? There are tons of them out there with the factory 3.8L V6 turbo RWD with 600+ hp. My buddy sold his a few years ago that pegged a 1000hp dyno(with the curve still climbing). BTW it was a factory 2-bolt main block that ran low 9s (50+ passes on the build).

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Hey, I get all that.... that's why I kept mine for so long and why I've kept working on it. I've been the only owner... had it since 2000... been modding it since 2003. I'll tell you what though... I've had the supercharger for a long time, and it's taken me almost the last ten years to really learn about this platform, this engine, about boost and modding in general. I've gone through a lot of parts and changes on my car. My engine has been take apart several times, broke down several times, and needs work right now (it has a rod knock). I've spent well over $60k including the price of the car trying to be "unique" and "different", and if I had to do it over again I'd do some things differently.

I wouldn't spend nearly as much money and I would not go for as much power out of the engine. Why? Because unless you already have a ton of knowledge, experience, and money... you will have poor results with this platform. And it will still cost a lot more to get the power you want out of it compare to another platform. Bottom line is, the car was just not engineered to do the kinds of things some of us are trying to do with it, and that places limiting factors on it. It also makes it more expensive and difficult to overcome those limits rather than starting with a car that has better engineering and design to start with. OEM's spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars designing and testing a car to perform a certain way. There's only so much a "back yard tuner" can do to change that, and I've seen them ruin a car more often than not in the process. I'm certainly not happy with how my car runs right now and that it's not dependable after all the money I've spent. Anyway that's my $.02. Take it as you will.

exactly the point I've been trying to make.