FUTURE turbo build discussion....go easy haha

[caraudiodave]

BTW heres a dyno vid (im the crappy camera man) with a 92 mm turbo. he stepped down to an 88mm turbo to get over 1000hp.



and a run at "street legals" so it was supposed to be slower than 10 sec. watch the digital boost gauge, ONLY at 30psi.



another vid that I shot, at "PINKS all out" where he raced against a v10 mustang.

[HOYS]

The problem is that GNs are frakkin expensive.

[tipnitty]

Originally Posted by HOYS

If you worked for a shop that did performance 3800s...I betcha you would do a performance 3800 car...

Probably not. That's like saying if I worked at a shop that made parts for my D1.7 I would build it. When i could just swap in a K20A2 motor and go faster for pretty much the same cost, with potential to go faster when I upgraded the motor. I think its just pointless to build that v6 when it would very easy to drop in an LSx.

[caraudiodave]

Originally Posted by HOYS

The problem is that GNs are frakkin expensive.

they are, and that car was like a $50k build over time...but my point was that there are certain cars/motors that are more worth working on than others. There is still lots of aftermarket support for that v6, also there is still support for the Grand Prix GTP setup, but the few companies that make parts for Grand Ams will only continue to do so as long as it makes sense.

To put in yet another way...this platform is becoming cheaper and cheaper, therefore getting bought buy a younger crowd. The cars are also getting older and dated. It would be stupid for a company to make aftermarket parts for a dated v6 where the customer base is diminishing when they can make parts for more current motors with a growing customer base. I dont see there being a solid customer base in the next 5-10 years. yes you can always search for used parts, and there might be the one or two companies who can do custom work, but the good companies will stick with where the money is.

[KillNThrill24]

^i do agree with that statement. think about all the japanese cars like the 350z for instance, i know it has a 6cyl in it, although the exact liter i cant remember atm, and look at the power some of those things make.. not enough? supras are all over youtube making over 1000hp. its insane. so i totally agree with that.

BUT what are you trying to say about the "younger crowd" ? im only 19 myself so i fall into that category however i always take care of my car.

true tho, with a car that hasnt been manufactured in about 7yrs, the GT about 8yrs... the amount of them that are still on the road has diminished greatly, and the mileage on most of them are crazy high. and the engine itself is very dated. the 3500 was the replacement for it, and to my knowledge, maybe someone can enlighten me, there isnt a whole hell of a lot of aftermaket availability?

[KillNThrill24]

poor Reaper, hes probably thinking "i made this thread about building a turbo GA and look what it has turned into...."

[zukiracer19]

I understand it's cool to have a fast car, but damn if you're talking #'s over 400 you might as well get something AWD or RWD, something thats more fun to drive. I think a GA Around 400-450whp would be a fun car though .

[G.I.Ceo]

Originally Posted by blckgagt

While I agree that there are plenty of other platforms that can made to out perform the nbody or even the 3400 for far less, I choose it because they are few and far between to see any 3400 built up. It's beyond a money issue to me but more of originality. Either way to each their own and I certainly respect anyone who has a well built car.

I feel the exact same way. I did not start my turbo build thinking I was building this for all out power knowing there is other platforms that will perform better. No matter what you build there is always something that will out do it. You can never go into a project thinking that if I build this I am going to get out run or people aren't going to like it because you cant please everyone. As long as the builder is happy and it's their pocket book who cares what others think.

If I listened to everyone's opinion then nothing would ever get done. Also how many people in the GA platform have actually owned a finished turbo build? I bet you can almost count them on one hand. So yes these are unique when done and its truly a one of a kind. Who cares about all the other BS when you have something that is yours and the only one like it.

[rocketfast123]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

I understand it's cool to have a fast car, but damn if you're talking #'s over 400 you might as well get something AWD or RWD, something thats more fun to drive. I think a GA Around 400-450whp would be a fun car though .

That is America fuk yea!

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by KillNThrill24

whhhaat-df ..... iv never heard of a 10sec 3800 thats ridiculous. ok so you proved me wrong but still, id rather have the roar of a v8 than the purr of a v6

and in terms of reliability i hav to say my 3800 has ZERO mechanical issues, its only at 125xxx but still. whereas my 3400 has had more issues than i could possibly count. and my 3800 has no dash lights, while my 3400 is a christmas tree

Id have to agree with the v8 vs v6, i love the sound of a v8, my dash is a christmas tree too, ive got a short with the harness to my wheel hub so as im sure u guys know thatl light it up fairly well that and ive got a small emission leak throwing a light too haha, still love my GA tho

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by HOYS

A good bit of W-Bodies are in the 11 second range, people who dump some more money into them get into 10's.

Keep in mind that Tim's Firebird was half backed, the intercooler box was in the passenger seat, and it had just about every part possible.

Theres only two words i can say for that. .fockin epic!

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by blckgagt

While I agree that there are plenty of other platforms that can made to out perform the nbody or even the 3400 for far less, I choose it because they are few and far between to see any 3400 built up. It's beyond a money issue to me but more of originality. Either way to each their own and I certainly respect anyone who has a well built car.

couldnt have said it any better myself

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Hey, I get all that.... that's why I kept mine for so long and why I've kept working on it. I've been the only owner... had it since 2000... been modding it since 2003. I'll tell you what though... I've had the supercharger for a long time, and it's taken me almost the last ten years to really learn about this platform, this engine, about boost and modding in general. I've gone through a lot of parts and changes on my car. My engine has been take apart several times, broke down several times, and needs work right now (it has a rod knock). I've spent well over $60k including the price of the car trying to be "unique" and "different", and if I had to do it over again I'd do some things differently.

I wouldn't spend nearly as much money and I would not go for as much power out of the engine. Why? Because unless you already have a ton of knowledge, experience, and money... you will have poor results with this platform. And it will still cost a lot more to get the power you want out of it compare to another platform. Bottom line is, the car was just not engineered to do the kinds of things some of us are trying to do with it, and that places limiting factors on it. It also makes it more expensive and difficult to overcome those limits rather than starting with a car that has better engineering and design to start with. OEM's spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars designing and testing a car to perform a certain way. There's only so much a "back yard tuner" can do to change that, and I've seen them ruin a car more often than not in the process. I'm certainly not happy with how my car runs right now and that it's not dependable after all the money I've spent. Anyway that's my $.02. Take it as you will.

I see what you're getting at, and i understand where you're comming from, i know things rarely go the way anyone wants them to go the first time murpheys law is always looking for a chance to strike, i know itl happen even though i know this will happen its the nature of the beast, but one of which each one of us inherently accepts when doing something like this. Im sure my vehical will undergo those changes over the years, its a progression of the 'character' of the car, imo, but at the end of it all, when its all said and done, ill be able to say that its mine, and anyone would be hard pressed to find another like it, thatl make it all worth it

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by caraudiodave

My comments on here are usually tongue in cheek. I was much more series several years ago when I had a grand am.




Are you all forgetting about the '84-'87 buick Grand National? There are tons of them out there with the factory 3.8L V6 turbo RWD with 600+ hp. My buddy sold his a few years ago that pegged a 1000hp dyno(with the curve still climbing). BTW it was a factory 2-bolt main block that ran low 9s (50+ passes on the build).




exactly the point I've been trying to make.

My uncle had two GN's at one point, sold one but kept the other, used to go to car shows with them, now hes got one GN and an anniversary edition trans am, think was an 02example from the last year made, cant remember for sure though been about 6 years since ive seen it out and about, he keeps them ina garage haha

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by KillNThrill24

poor Reaper, hes probably thinking "i made this thread about building a turbo GA and look what it has turned into...."

Lol nah, im going to do what HOYS suggested with the lx9 swap and go from there. I said that all comments were welcome haha i learn the most when people talk on here, so im def not a gainst it

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by zukiracer19

I understand it's cool to have a fast car, but damn if you're talking #'s over 400 you might as well get something AWD or RWD, something thats more fun to drive. I think a GA Around 400-450whp would be a fun car though .

Thats what im thinking, and hoping to achieve

[Reaper3240]

Originally Posted by G.I.Ceo

I feel the exact same way. I did not start my turbo build thinking I was building this for all out power knowing there is other platforms that will perform better. No matter what you build there is always something that will out do it. You can never go into a project thinking that if I build this I am going to get out run or people aren't going to like it because you cant please everyone. As long as the builder is happy and it's their pocket book who cares what others think.

If I listened to everyone's opinion then nothing would ever get done. Also how many people in the GA platform have actually owned a finished turbo build? I bet you can almost count them on one hand. So yes these are unique when done and its truly a one of a kind. Who cares about all the other BS when you have something that is yours and the only one like it.

Agree 100%

[HOYS]

On a side note, the button inbetween quote and quick on somebodies post will allow you to multiple quote...

[Reaper3240]

Have still been reading up on the current subject, on 60v6, here, and Fiero forums which is kinda interesting to read as well. Same issue ive got there and here is ill read a thread for info, only specific info then i read it all, like 20 some pages, and continue in that section for more of the stuff ..... truely is addicting, but i love it Anyways kind of a mini update ... of sorts -if one could even consider it an update-

Was reading in the How-To's just to see what i could dig up that could be hiding deep deep down in the pits of GAGT.com came across the corvette conversion/upgrade, pretty straight forward, not something that id have a problem with doing but i do, however, have a few questions about it, was hoping for a convo/pros and con type deal so feel free to give whatever opinion/info you want, all are welcome

Firstly: What is the performance aspect of the corvette upgrade/conversion vs. the Big brake upgrade? Pros/cons, etc.

Second: Would the corvette upgrade/conversion look ok with the 18's? -on the list for later- Dont want to have a huge void behind the wheel, but i do want it to be seen haha

Again all info is welcome


While browsing the How-To's there was also the F40 6-speed how-to/convo thread from tim -excellent job btw, although was extremely sad to read the part out thread -

I know i said previously that i plan on upgrading to the 4t65e HD ... however the cost of that vs the F40 is almost the same through MMS.. the extra like $400 is more than enough of a reason to go the M6 route... but i will not be buying it from him if i can get better prices via a friend at a dealership . . .discounts help alot haha So as of now the current plan, which im sure isnt going to change is the M6 F40 swap from the G6 -i believe- which will bolt up perfectly to the LA1 and consequently the LX9 -WIN in my book- that part kinda fell into my lap cause tim had it all layed out and i downloaded the revised "cleaned up" version that either ben or mark made. So as it stand the big three things as of right now are MMS turbo system, LX9 swap, and F40 swap.

Question for you guys is i would like to do it all together but i know that itd be smarter -again fell into my lap learning from tim- to do the lx9 swap first, get it running like it was oem in the GAGT, then do the F40, make them play nicely together which wont be an issue, then add boost. Thoughts?

Decided this route to allow troubleshooting to be easier by eliminating as much as the unnecessary variables as i can. the only downside i can kind of counter this with is if i do stages per se' when i start to tear into the engine ill have to go back and pull the engine/trans at seperate times over again, but it seems like an almost minute tradeoff lmao idk, any opinions? -sorry for the long posts, making it a habit haha-

As for what im modding right now, as my sig says ive got a strut bar now, decided to go with the one from MRZ Performance, looks nice but my dirty engine kinda pulls it down haha Basically for "the big three" engine,tans,boost, im doing research/gathering info on what needs to be done, cost, more efficient ways to do it etc. So as i draw near to what i think would be a very nice set up im saving up for things that i can reuse after my build is complete, aka things that wont change, like i really want headers..... but the MMs ones are expensive, dont think its wise to finish my exhaust out with N/A headers, when im just going to replace them with the turbo ones, a solution to this is Pacesetter... however we all know the general consensus on those, and i want them coated, but for the amount i would just get the MMS headers which brings me to square one .

So i can focus on things that wont change, wheels/tires, suspension, interior, race seats, paint some of it, maybe a touch screen, redesign the rear seats to be lighter but same shap, and i would like to wrap them in leather, black with red stripes and custom "GT-T 500" embroidered -sp?- at the top.. lots of ideas haha.

Window tint, and the last thing ill prolly do is body kit, and actually would like some opinions, heres my idea. I like the sc/t kit, alot, and the rk sport, all others fall short for me, idk why they just dont look right, the more i see the sc/t kit, and aarons rk sport the more i keep wanting them so what if i combine them with a little bit of a twist;

Rk sport front/rear bumper
Ram air hood
Sc/t Spoiler -its looks alot more agressive and i love it-
and for the side skirts i was thinking of the skirts from the invader kit, with the cooling duct, and i would like to make them functional, i know performance wise it prolly wont do much but will help, and its functional, another thing to add to the list of things done haha any thoughts? Btw my car is Victory Red, to help visualize.

Last but not least my exhaust, ive got the borla cat back and the piping as we all know it stock sise, if i were to get mandrel bent 2.5 piping and weld the muffler onto it/ and the exit pipe to the tips then weld the tips back on and delete the res, do you think itd sound better? going for the deeper raspier v8 sound -i know itl be hard to replicate but still haha- just wasnt sure if the crossflow was made for the sound of the stock pipe and increasing it would make the sound worse so i figured id ask

Thx for all the info in advance, and reading all this, im really sorry for typing os much at once haha

~Rob

[silver01GT]

Originally Posted by Reaper3240

Have still been reading up on the current subject, on 60v6, here, and Fiero forums which is kinda interesting to read as well. Same issue ive got there and here is ill read a thread for info, only specific info then i read it all, like 20 some pages, and continue in that section for more of the stuff ..... truely is addicting, but i love it Anyways kind of a mini update ... of sorts -if one could even consider it an update-

Was reading in the How-To's just to see what i could dig up that could be hiding deep deep down in the pits of GAGT.com came across the corvette conversion/upgrade, pretty straight forward, not something that id have a problem with doing but i do, however, have a few questions about it, was hoping for a convo/pros and con type deal so feel free to give whatever opinion/info you want, all are welcome

Firstly: What is the performance aspect of the corvette upgrade/conversion vs. the Big brake upgrade? Pros/cons, etc.

Second: Would the corvette upgrade/conversion look ok with the 18's? -on the list for later- Dont want to have a huge void behind the wheel, but i do want it to be seen haha

Again all info is welcome


While browsing the How-To's there was also the F40 6-speed how-to/convo thread from tim -excellent job btw, although was extremely sad to read the part out thread -

I know i said previously that i plan on upgrading to the 4t65e HD ... however the cost of that vs the F40 is almost the same through MMS.. the extra like $400 is more than enough of a reason to go the M6 route... but i will not be buying it from him if i can get better prices via a friend at a dealership . . .discounts help alot haha So as of now the current plan, which im sure isnt going to change is the M6 F40 swap from the G6 -i believe- which will bolt up perfectly to the LA1 and consequently the LX9 -WIN in my book- that part kinda fell into my lap cause tim had it all layed out and i downloaded the revised "cleaned up" version that either ben or mark made. So as it stand the big three things as of right now are MMS turbo system, LX9 swap, and F40 swap.

Question for you guys is i would like to do it all together but i know that itd be smarter -again fell into my lap learning from tim- to do the lx9 swap first, get it running like it was oem in the GAGT, then do the F40, make them play nicely together which wont be an issue, then add boost. Thoughts?

Decided this route to allow troubleshooting to be easier by eliminating as much as the unnecessary variables as i can. the only downside i can kind of counter this with is if i do stages per se' when i start to tear into the engine ill have to go back and pull the engine/trans at seperate times over again, but it seems like an almost minute tradeoff lmao idk, any opinions? -sorry for the long posts, making it a habit haha-

As for what im modding right now, as my sig says ive got a strut bar now, decided to go with the one from MRZ Performance, looks nice but my dirty engine kinda pulls it down haha Basically for "the big three" engine,tans,boost, im doing research/gathering info on what needs to be done, cost, more efficient ways to do it etc. So as i draw near to what i think would be a very nice set up im saving up for things that i can reuse after my build is complete, aka things that wont change, like i really want headers..... but the MMs ones are expensive, dont think its wise to finish my exhaust out with N/A headers, when im just going to replace them with the turbo ones, a solution to this is Pacesetter... however we all know the general consensus on those, and i want them coated, but for the amount i would just get the MMS headers which brings me to square one .

So i can focus on things that wont change, wheels/tires, suspension, interior, race seats, paint some of it, maybe a touch screen, redesign the rear seats to be lighter but same shap, and i would like to wrap them in leather, black with red stripes and custom "GT-T 500" embroidered -sp?- at the top.. lots of ideas haha.

Window tint, and the last thing ill prolly do is body kit, and actually would like some opinions, heres my idea. I like the sc/t kit, alot, and the rk sport, all others fall short for me, idk why they just dont look right, the more i see the sc/t kit, and aarons rk sport the more i keep wanting them so what if i combine them with a little bit of a twist;

Rk sport front/rear bumper
Ram air hood
Sc/t Spoiler -its looks alot more agressive and i love it-
and for the side skirts i was thinking of the skirts from the invader kit, with the cooling duct, and i would like to make them functional, i know performance wise it prolly wont do much but will help, and its functional, another thing to add to the list of things done haha any thoughts? Btw my car is Victory Red, to help visualize.

Last but not least my exhaust, ive got the borla cat back and the piping as we all know it stock sise, if i were to get mandrel bent 2.5 piping and weld the muffler onto it/ and the exit pipe to the tips then weld the tips back on and delete the res, do you think itd sound better? going for the deeper raspier v8 sound -i know itl be hard to replicate but still haha- just wasnt sure if the crossflow was made for the sound of the stock pipe and increasing it would make the sound worse so i figured id ask

Thx for all the info in advance, and reading all this, im really sorry for typing os much at once haha

~Rob

I hope the build turns out a success but I'm with the majority, get something RWD or AWD, it wll make better use of 3-500hp.

Even with 300hp you would still lose to a new Focus ST in a race.