What next?

[caraudiodave]

Originally Posted by xUnderCoverHoBo

Yeah i work two jobs to save for college. Expensive. Yet later in life i can buy more car parts with a college degree

i tried that...most auto part stores dont accept bachelors degrees for payment.

i agree though, you might love your GA now, but once you are done with school you might feel differently and want another car to work on. save your spare cash, it will help a lot in college.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by tipnitty

On these cars, if you get an increase you are lucky. Only thing that comes of intakes on these cars is that you "feel" like the car is faster. It has been covered many times on this forum. If you want some sort of power increase, you need to do other supporting mods. An intake is pretty much for show and a better sound.

Ya know, I'm surprised I didn't even see this the first time. I love how everyone on this site gives out expert opinions though...


Let me ask you this. Have you ever done a before and after dyno with nothing but a stock intake then installing a CAI? If not, then how do you know people are only imagining that their cars are making more and that they aren't any faster?


If you want to read some actual intelligent debating on the merits of CAI's try reading this thread. Fenderwell intake (CAI) vs. stock airbox?

I can't find the article right now, but I know I have the mag somewhere. Way back in the day Chris White did an article for High Performance Pontiac magazine. They dyno tested a CAI, and cat-back exhaust, I iirc a DHP 1.0 PCM. The CAI did make power by itself. I think it was only 3-5hp on average, but it made power.

You can't say a CAI does or doesn't make power based on results from ANY other car! Every car is different and will have different results. The engine designs and volumetric efficiency are different, the sensor setups and operation are different, and the intake designs are different. Some performance cars come from the factory with very efficient intakes already. Some don't and benefit greatly from a better intake. Some will infact LOSE power if changing the intake from the factory one, without doing computer tuning along with the change. New subarus are a good example of this. The MAF's are very sensitive to changes.

The grand ams intake is not terrible as far as flow restriction is concerned. It is designed to baffle intake noise though and keep water out of the air box, and not for max flow velocity, so a CAI with good piping can pick up some power mostly in the top end. The amount of power gain depends on other mods though. They are compounded, just like an exhaust or any other "flow" mod. If you do something to increase the flow like cam, heads, ported intakes, bigger TB, etc... the benefit from a CAI increases.

[Kayaus]

Originally Posted by [ChaosweaveR]

Skip to around 0:35 to hear the car.

Was something off with those readings? For all your mods I refuse to believe it only put down 167hp and 220ftlbs.

[locoman99]

Originally Posted by Kayaus

Was something off with those readings? For all your mods I refuse to believe it only put down 167hp and 220ftlbs.

Thats wheel hp...about right for what he had done. Exhaust and cai i believe are only mods done. It was the base dyno for a build that never got finished.

[TDavis]

Originally Posted by locoman99

Thats wheel hp...about right for what he had done. Exhaust and cai i believe are only mods done. It was the base dyno for a build that never got finished.

Oh, here we go again -.-.....

[chris_gt_74]

Originally Posted by Kayaus

Was something off with those readings? For all your mods I refuse to believe it only put down 167hp and 220ftlbs.

I personally felt 167 whp was a good gain considering the mods. The vid said he had a short ram intake (warm air) w/k&n, 2 1/4" exhaust and upgraded wires and coils. The exhaust likely being the biggest gain. It makes me wonder what mine has cause I have a ported top end, headers, 2.5" catback, 65mm throttle body and cai. His crank hp is probably around 185-190 guessing maybe a little more since I have no idea what the actual drive train loss is.

[AaronGTR]

Drive train loss is typically 18-20% on a FWD automatic.

[chris_gt_74]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Drive train loss is typically 18-20% on a FWD automatic.

Well if that's right then he gained about 23-27 whp with relatively minimal mods. I didn't notice whether or not if it was tuned or stock tune. I still feel that's a pretty good gain for the mods involved.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Loco is still poking around for an argument.

As for the vid, debate all you want. No focks are given anymore, my mindset on the car was very different back in 2009.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by chris_gt_74

Well if that's right then he gained about 23-27 whp with relatively minimal mods. I didn't notice whether or not if it was tuned or stock tune.

Yes, and that's pretty typical for what I've seen from a LOT of grand ams on the dyno with CAI and exhaust. Most stock cars make on average 142-146whp. You might get an occasional factory freak, or just exceptional dyno conditions (or a different brand dyno, or operator error, etc), that might put down more than that... but 140's is normal. That's why when people put down low to high 160's with just CAI and cat back exhaust, I say there's no way that's from the exhaust alone, because if you figure the 18-20% loss that would be over 200 at the crank, and I seriously doubt anyone is gaining 25-30hp just from a cat-back alone.

[locoman99]

Well I thought I was defending his numbers.

If he was running just a filter on a pipe air intake, then it was the best posible set up on a dyno run like that with the hood open...way less restriction than what any cai would have at high rpms.
If he still has that car in a year im thinking about giving him a set of ported manifolds.

[xUnderCoverHoBo]

how much installed is a flowmaster 80 ive been looking at some videos on em