Headers... High Temp powder vs. Ceramic

[BJPbrandon2448]

Okay here we go, to start off I recently purchased the S&S headers that Christian had posted for sale. This is my second time owning headers now after the first set I had was covered with surface rust and had no downpipe. This time around I will have the complete set-up without having to do any prep work being that they are brand new, so its time to take the next step. After coming up empty on shops that offer ceramic here in the local area I decided to call up Jet Hot to get an estimate on what there process would cost me, needless to say they quoted me @ $285 plus my shipping charges... that was not music to my ears being that to have these coated it was gonna cost me about the price I paid for the headers!!! So with that I began searching again for shops in the are I came across a place within 20 miles of my house that was advertising for ceramic coating, so I gave the guy a call and he left me hanging saying that he wasnt set-up for ceramic. He then asked me about what parts I wanted to have coated, when I told him headers he told me he could sandblast them and then give them A high temp. powder coat in flat black for $70... I was then stunned by how he said that he would offer me a lifetime gaurantee up to temps of 1200* keep in mind the Jet Hot process is under the same warranty for 1300*... So I guess my main question is could I get by with the powdercoat? Sure I love the nice shiny ceramic but the price comparison is INSANE!!! Is this guys b.s.ing me on the powdercoat temps? What would you do?

[sleepyalero]

i think i'd go ceramic. dont know how well the high temp powder coat would last, and im sure you wouldnt want to keep pulling them off the car and getting them re done if they dont hold up cause of his warranty.

[BJPbrandon2448]

I know but I cant find someone who does it within a comfortable price range, I cant see myself paying $300+ just to have some headers coated!

[sleepyalero]

what about swine tech or however you spell it.

[unchained_01]

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/a...s-price-sheet/ still going to cost 300 + with shipping

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by unchained_01

http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/a...s-price-sheet/ still going to cost 300 + with shipping

Damn, that rediculous!!! In that case I would be better off to go with Jet Hot.

[Smithkid21]

You gotta pay to play. Suck it up and get the Jet-Hot. One and done.

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by Smithkid21

You gotta pay to play. Suck it up and get the Jet-Hot. One and done.

That is absurd but true I suppose! Anyway, Im still trying to find a cheaper ceramic coat! Ive managed to find a place that will do it at $250 which is a little better.

[G.I.Ceo]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

That is absurd but true I suppose! Anyway, Im still trying to find a cheaper ceramic coat! Ive managed to find a place that will do it at $250 which is a little better.

Remember though if you go cheap your probably wont get the best job done. Jet-Hot will do them inside and outside and then guarantee their work. They are a proven company that deals all across the nation. Some things are just not worth trying to save money on.

[dcuballa]

I used a local coating shop to cover my headers on my 55 chevy. I was stunned at how cheap he was and he said all the same things the owner told you. Told me he would blast them clean, clean up all welds and then coat them and they would stand up to 1500 degrees. Needless to say within 3 months the coating was coming up at the bends in the tubes. I went back and he told me that the carb was set too rich and that un-burnt fuel was passing and hitting the tubes at the bends causing the fuel to ignite and burn at far more than 1500 degrees. Needless to say I wasted 120 bucks on getting him to do them. Im sorry this took a while to explain but basically like they said in post previous, you have to pay to play. I spent 500 dollars getting the shop that does our racing headers to coat mine, and they still shine like the day I got them.

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by dcuballa

I used a local coating shop to cover my headers on my 55 chevy. I was stunned at how cheap he was and he said all the same things the owner told you. Told me he would blast them clean, clean up all welds and then coat them and they would stand up to 1500 degrees. Needless to say within 3 months the coating was coming up at the bends in the tubes. I went back and he told me that the carb was set too rich and that un-burnt fuel was passing and hitting the tubes at the bends causing the fuel to ignite and burn at far more than 1500 degrees. Needless to say I wasted 120 bucks on getting him to do them. Im sorry this took a while to explain but basically like they said in post previous, you have to pay to play. I spent 500 dollars getting the shop that does our racing headers to coat mine, and they still shine like the day I got them.

Alright thanks Chris very helpful! I think these headers are gonna be just about it for my car, Im starting to realize how much money ive been spending... and well in short terms Im addicted to modding a grand am!!! I need to start budgeting money better!

[AaronGTR]

I would not go with powder coat. It's not going to hold up to as high a temp as he claims, and it's only going to be on the outside. The inside can still rust. Also the ceramic coat from jet-hot will be more effective at keeping heat in the header, which will make more power and keep your engine bay cooler.

Really... $285 is not expensive. I mean how cheap are you? A good set of headers is $650-800 or more. A good coating is required to get the most out of them and make them last. No one ever said mods weren't going to cost you, especially if you want quality stuff done right. It's like the people who buy a $400 body kit then are surprised when it needs $600 of work to make it fit right and paint it. This stuff isn't free. You need to look into all the costs of something before you buy it. If you don't like paying the price, I suggest you stop modding right now.

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I would not go with powder coat. It's not going to hold up to as high a temp as he claims, and it's only going to be on the outside. The inside can still rust. Also the ceramic coat from jet-hot will be more effective at keeping heat in the header, which will make more power and keep your engine bay cooler.

Really... $285 is not expensive. I mean how cheap are you? A good set of headers is $650-800 or more. A good coating is required to get the most out of them and make them last. No one ever said mods weren't going to cost you, especially if you want quality stuff done right. It's like the people who buy a $400 body kit then are surprised when it needs $600 of work to make it fit right and paint it. This stuff isn't free. You need to look into all the costs of something before you buy it. If you don't like paying the price, I suggest you stop modding right now.

I knew how much I was going to be paying, I managed to get a brand new set of headers for $450, with that being said I cant believe they want $285 just to coat them plus I have to pay almost an additional $50 just to cover shipping charges! Yes I understand that Jet Hot does top of line work, but seriously is that type of quality necessary when it comes to a stock grand am? I find it extremely hard to believe that these engine reach temps of 1000*? I have no problem with the pay to play motto, Hell I bought the sc/t kit and had it painted the right way because well in my opinion it was worth it! Anyway I managed to get a deal done with this place called Aesthetic finishes, $250 with no shipping charges but I will still have to burn up gas to get there though...

[dcuballa]

Just make sure they coat inside and out. Like someone said before, it will really help keep the temps down and also prolong the outside coatings life.

[Starglow]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

I knew how much I was going to be paying, I managed to get a brand new set of headers for $450, with that being said I cant believe they want $285 just to coat them plus I have to pay almost an additional $50 just to cover shipping charges! Yes I understand that Jet Hot does top of line work, but seriously is that type of quality necessary when it comes to a stock grand am?

Well you could always run them uncoated or just re-sell them and go with Pacesetter or OBX if you want cheap. But since you've already gone this far, I'd go with Jet Hot if I were you because I think you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment like dcuballa described if you go with the other shop. The money spent will become a faded memory once everything is all put together and you have a big smile on your face.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

I knew how much I was going to be paying, I managed to get a brand new set of headers for $450, with that being said I cant believe they want $285 just to coat them plus I have to pay almost an additional $50 just to cover shipping charges! Yes I understand that Jet Hot does top of line work, but seriously is that type of quality necessary when it comes to a stock grand am? I find it extremely hard to believe that these engine reach temps of 1000*? I have no problem with the pay to play motto, Hell I bought the sc/t kit and had it painted the right way because well in my opinion it was worth it! Anyway I managed to get a deal done with this place called Aesthetic finishes, $250 with no shipping charges but I will still have to burn up gas to get there though...

You know you just contradicted yourself right? You said you knew what you were going to be paying... then you said you can't believe they want $285 just to coat them.

I don't think you really did your research before hand. Do you know what goes into the process of a full ceramic dipping? Of making a coating that not only will hold heat in but also will be durable and not flake off? It's a lot more involved than some yahoo at a local shop with a DIY powder spray gun and an oven. And the results show it.

Like I said $285 is NOT expensive for coating. It's actually a bit cheaper than what I had to pay them to do mine, because mine are three pieces and needed the old coating stripped first, and I also got the coating one step up in heat resistance and insulation (since I'm boosted). You ask if it's worth it just for a stock grand am? Well if it's worth putting headers on then it's worth getting them properly coated. If you don't care about the headers or the car that much, then why even put them on? Why mod at all if you are that cheap? You are thinking about this totally in the wrong way. You say the headers only cost you $450 so you don't want to pay $285 to get them coated. Well the headers originally cost more than $450. You got a good deal on them second hand... you should look at it like, with the money you saved you can afford to get a good coating on them now.

[unchained_01]

And your getting them for less than 7-800 all together. I paid 1100 for a set from MMS. Your getting off cheap !!! You have been here long enough to know performance isnt cheap. If these were available a year ago you wouldn't have them I would !!! LOL

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

You know you just contradicted yourself right? You said you knew what you were going to be paying... then you said you can't believe they want $285 just to coat them.

I don't think you really did your research before hand. Do you know what goes into the process of a full ceramic dipping? Of making a coating that not only will hold heat in but also will be durable and not flake off? It's a lot more involved than some yahoo at a local shop with a DIY powder spray gun and an oven. And the results show it.

Like I said $285 is NOT expensive for coating. It's actually a bit cheaper than what I had to pay them to do mine, because mine are three pieces and needed the old coating stripped first, and I also got the coating one step up in heat resistance and insulation (since I'm boosted). You ask if it's worth it just for a stock grand am? Well if it's worth putting headers on then it's worth getting them properly coated. If you don't care about the headers or the car that much, then why even put them on? Why mod at all if you are that cheap? You are thinking about this totally in the wrong way. You say the headers only cost you $450 so you don't want to pay $285 to get them coated. Well the headers originally cost more than $450. You got a good deal on them second hand... you should look at it like, with the money you saved you can afford to get a good coating on them now.

Alright Thanks Aaron, youve convinced me... I guess the big deal is realistically I shouldnt be modding cars, Im really just a kid starting out and the reason why Im complaining is because my paychecks are roughly only $350 per two weeks. Its just something I love to do even if it breaks me... This car really is my prize posession and I guess that is why I get the joy I do when modding! I believe in doing things correctly and being that im probably gonna have to pay someone for an install as well It just outright makes sense to make this a one and done! Just hope I didnt offend anyone over any arguements or anything>Its just something you have to put up with as a member on this forum! The good news is the Headers arent going to be shipped to me until tomorrow... so it should give me enough time to save up for the jet hot process! Overall all do the S&S Headers take the backseat performance wise compared to TOG, and Milzy, Why does it seem like I keep reading a bunch of complaints about the crossover section?

[Smithkid21]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I would not go with powder coat. It's not going to hold up to as high a temp as he claims, and it's only going to be on the outside. The inside can still rust. Also the ceramic coat from jet-hot will be more effective at keeping heat in the header, which will make more power and keep your engine bay cooler.

Really... $285 is not expensive. I mean how cheap are you? A good set of headers is $650-800 or more. A good coating is required to get the most out of them and make them last. No one ever said mods weren't going to cost you, especially if you want quality stuff done right. It's like the people who buy a $400 body kit then are surprised when it needs $600 of work to make it fit right and paint it. This stuff isn't free. You need to look into all the costs of something before you buy it. If you don't like paying the price, I suggest you stop modding right now.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

You know you just contradicted yourself right? You said you knew what you were going to be paying... then you said you can't believe they want $285 just to coat them.

I don't think you really did your research before hand. Do you know what goes into the process of a full ceramic dipping? Of making a coating that not only will hold heat in but also will be durable and not flake off? It's a lot more involved than some yahoo at a local shop with a DIY powder spray gun and an oven. And the results show it.

Like I said $285 is NOT expensive for coating. It's actually a bit cheaper than what I had to pay them to do mine, because mine are three pieces and needed the old coating stripped first, and I also got the coating one step up in heat resistance and insulation (since I'm boosted). You ask if it's worth it just for a stock grand am? Well if it's worth putting headers on then it's worth getting them properly coated. If you don't care about the headers or the car that much, then why even put them on? Why mod at all if you are that cheap? You are thinking about this totally in the wrong way. You say the headers only cost you $450 so you don't want to pay $285 to get them coated. Well the headers originally cost more than $450. You got a good deal on them second hand... you should look at it like, with the money you saved you can afford to get a good coating on them now.

I stand by my statement.

[chris_gt_74]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

Alright Thanks Aaron, youve convinced me... I guess the big deal is realistically I shouldnt be modding cars, Im really just a kid starting out and the reason why Im complaining is because my paychecks are roughly only $350 per two weeks. Its just something I love to do even if it breaks me... This car really is my prize posession and I guess that is why I get the joy I do when modding! I believe in doing things correctly and being that im probably gonna have to pay someone for an install as well It just outright makes sense to make this a one and done! Just hope I didnt offend anyone over any arguements or anything>Its just something you have to put up with as a member on this forum! The good news is the Headers arent going to be shipped to me until tomorrow... so it should give me enough time to save up for the jet hot process! Overall all do the S&S Headers take the backseat performance wise compared to TOG, and Milzy, Why does it seem like I keep reading a bunch of complaints about the crossover section?

I have S&S headers on my car just like your set. I bought them used and uncoated. I seriously considered getting them coated but decided not to since they were used already and installed them myself as soon as I got them. I live in Texas where it is hot and my car never sees road salt, heavy snowfalls or frequent engine cleanings. Yes they will rust in time without a doubt but I'm okay with that. I'm not sure how long I will have the car but I don't think they will rust out by then and if so, well my bad and lesson learned. The $400 I paid for them was worth it to me IMO. Like I said though mine were second hand and had been used and yes had some light rusting when I got them but I cleaned them up as best as I could and used high temp header paint. I'm not endorsing that method though because it only somewhat works and was really mainly for looks only but also little half ass rust prevention. Yes ceramic coating would have been much better but being used I passed. Now if they had been new I may have put more consideration into it since the investment would have been likely much more than $400.

If your good at engine work I'd install them yourself and save the cash. It's not very hard to do just time consuming. Keeping them unscuffed during install is much harder than actually installing them .

The crossover part your talking about I'm guessing is the donut gasket and PITA bracket. Mine doesn't line up as evenly as I'd like which I think was caused by whomever welded them up (not installed on an engine I'm betting). What I mean is the rear header and rear crossover piece were welded together midway up. I'm thinking the heat from the weld warped the pipe just enough to not let it line up perfectly with the front crossover piece. I've actually thought about getting an exhaust shop to look at it and see if it can be heated and bent a little so it lines up. That possibly replacing that donut connection with a v-band.