Headers... High Temp powder vs. Ceramic

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by chris_gt_74

I have S&S headers on my car just like your set. I bought them used and uncoated. I seriously considered getting them coated but decided not to since they were used already and installed them myself as soon as I got them. I live in Texas where it is hot and my car never sees road salt, heavy snowfalls or frequent engine cleanings. Yes they will rust in time without a doubt but I'm okay with that. I'm not sure how long I will have the car but I don't think they will rust out by then and if so, well my bad and lesson learned. The $400 I paid for them was worth it to me IMO. Like I said though mine were second hand and had been used and yes had some light rusting when I got them but I cleaned them up as best as I could and used high temp header paint. I'm not endorsing that method though because it only somewhat works, mainly for looks only and some halfass rust prevention. Yes ceramic coating would have been much better but being used I passed. Now if they had been new I may have put more consideration into it since the investment would have been likely much more than $400.

If your good at engine work I'd install them yourselfand save the cash. It not very hard to do just time consuming. Keeping them unscuffed during install is much harder than actually installing them .

The crossover part your talking about I'm guessing is the donut gasket and PITA bracket. Mine doesn't line up as evenly as I'd like which I think was caused by whomever welded them up (not installed on an engine I'm betting). What I mean is the rear header and rear crossover piece were welded together. I'm thinking the heat from the weld warped the pipe just enough to not let it line up perfectly with the front crossover piece. I've actually thought about getting an exhaust shop to look at it ad see if it can be heated and bent a little so it lines up. That and consider replacing that donut connection with a v-band too.

Yeah Ive just been putting alot more serious thought into having these headers coated the right way... after all im only gonna end up like saving $50 by going with a company other than jet hot which I now realize is pointless! Some of you may shrug this off but I seriously plan on keeping this car to the point where is atleast classified as a classic, 40 years from now I want to be able to look at my Grand Am the same way I do classic camaro's and mustangs, Its just absolutely crucial that you emphasize on doing things the right way... The install of these headers need to be one time process! Lol. anyone in the local area looking to lend me a hand with the install? I would be willing to pay them atleast $150 plus gas! I did manage to install my throttle body and UIM successfully though!

[chris_gt_74]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

Yeah Ive just been putting alot more serious thought into having these headers coated the right way... after all im only gonna end up like saving $50 by going with a company other than jet hot which I now realize is pointless! Some of you may shrug this off but I seriously plan on keeping this car to the point where is atleast classified as a classic, 40 years from now I want to be able to look at my Grand Am the same way I do classic camaro's and mustangs, Its just absolutely crucial that you emphasize on doing things the right way... The install of these headers need to be one time process! Lol. anyone in the local area looking to lend me a hand with the install? I would be willing to pay them atleast $150 plus gas! I did manage to install my throttle body and UIM successfully though!

The down side to keeping a grand am that long is that it will probably fall apart long before . Not to mention parts will become likely impossible to find by then since Pontiac is gone forever.

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by chris_gt_74

The down side to keeping a grand am that long is that it will probably fall apart long before . Not to mention parts will become likely impossible to find by then since Pontiac is gone forever.

haha... well Ive managed to make it at 10 years with 100,000 with no rust at all! Sure Ive had to do some minor engine work but that will always be required!!! It doesnt see rain anymore and is garage kept all winter long... I been doing this for 4 years now, The previous owner took really good care of her too! . Its possible!

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by chris_gt_74

The down side to keeping a grand am that long is that it will probably fall apart long before . Not to mention parts will become likely impossible to find by then since Pontiac is gone forever.

Exactly. That is going to be one of the biggest problems right there. Most cars don't have a life expectancy of more than 15-20 years. After that... most OEM and aftermarket replacement parts stop being made, and most cars in the junk yard have been picked over already and sent to the shredder. These cars are never going to be considered "classics" the way a camaro or mustang or other older cars are. The only parts you will be able to find will be the odd junker left or left over NOS (new/old stock).

[Shade2012]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Exactly. That is going to be one of the biggest problems right there. Most cars don't have a life expectancy of more than 15-20 years. After that... most OEM and aftermarket replacement parts stop being made, and most cars in the junk yard have been picked over already and sent to the shredder. These cars are never going to be considered "classics" the way a camaro or mustang or other older cars are. The only parts you will be able to find will be the odd junker left or left over NOS (new/old stock).

Thats probably what they thought back in the day? However, I agree with you on a Grand Am perspective. Seeing as how so many of them were manufactured.

I kind of just contradicted myself, but you get the idea. If it was a less manufactured car, then maybe I could see it late on being a "classic".

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by Shade2012

Thats probably what they thought back in the day? However, I agree with you on a Grand Am perspective. Seeing as how so many of them were manufactured.

I kind of just contradicted myself, but you get the idea. If it was a less manufactured car, then maybe I could see it late on being a "classic".

I have to somewhat dissagree with you guys, trans ams and firebirds were a dime a dozen back in the day and now you rarely see any of them on the road!

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

I have to somewhat dissagree with you guys, trans ams and firebirds were a dime a dozen back in the day and now you rarely see any of them on the road!

Maybe where you are .... I still see plenty on the road. The biggest difference though is those cars had an enthusiast following. The grand am really does not.

[BJPbrandon2448]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Maybe where you are .... I still see plenty on the road. The biggest difference though is those cars had an enthusiast following. The grand am really does not.

well one thing we can agree on is it is starting to become rare to see a grand am in immaculant condition! And my car is unique to me I guess thats why I do what I do to it, I get compliments on how my car looks so I guess thats what matters enthusiast wise?

[CCPcoatings.com]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

Okay here we go, to start off I recently purchased the S&S headers that Christian had posted for sale. This is my second time owning headers now after the first set I had was covered with surface rust and had no downpipe. This time around I will have the complete set-up without having to do any prep work being that they are brand new, so its time to take the next step. After coming up empty on shops that offer ceramic here in the local area I decided to call up Jet Hot to get an estimate on what there process would cost me, needless to say they quoted me @ $285 plus my shipping charges... that was not music to my ears being that to have these coated it was gonna cost me about the price I paid for the headers!!! So with that I began searching again for shops in the are I came across a place within 20 miles of my house that was advertising for ceramic coating, so I gave the guy a call and he left me hanging saying that he wasnt set-up for ceramic. He then asked me about what parts I wanted to have coated, when I told him headers he told me he could sandblast them and then give them A high temp. powder coat in flat black for $70... I was then stunned by how he said that he would offer me a lifetime gaurantee up to temps of 1200* keep in mind the Jet Hot process is under the same warranty for 1300*... So I guess my main question is could I get by with the powdercoat? Sure I love the nice shiny ceramic but the price comparison is INSANE!!! Is this guys b.s.ing me on the powdercoat temps? What would you do?

Hello BJP:

He’s definitely BS-ing you but most likely not intentionally. In that he doesn’t do Ceramic Coating or exhaust products he may not realize what works and doesn’t. First off, putting any powder coating on an exhaust system is a bad idea. It’s going to FAIL. There may be a few applications in which it will hold up but they are few and far between. It’s very unlikely you’ll be successful on a high winding small displacement engine. The rating of 1200F is also pretty ambitious. High Temp Powder Coating is basically glorified BBQ paint. It comes in limited colors and it’s good for products exposed to moderate temps. More importantly it has none of the thermal barrier benefits of Ceramic Coating.

The traditional Bright Ceramic you are referring to is good from 1300-1700 EGT temps. The actual metal temp limit is about 1100F at which point the Ceramic dulls out and will eventually rust and become sacrificial. For your application I’m not sure I’d even recommend the Bright Ceramic. You’d probably be safer with the High Temp Ceramic offerings which are rated at about 2000F+. We do these on pretty much anything turbo related. Added bonus is they’re a bit cheaper as well in that they don’t have to be polished like the Bright Ceramic Coating.

You’re definitely headed in the right direction. Coating your headers now will get you some performance benefits and protect them for the future. If you choose to sell them on the car or separately at some point you’ll likely get most of your money out of them as well. Below are a few samples.......

Hope this helps,
CCPcoatings.com

[BJPbrandon2448]

Thanks bud, are you guys the company that does the coating work for milzy motorsports? How much would it cost for you guys to coat my headers? Thanks.

[slw240sx]

Originally Posted by BJPbrandon2448

I know but I cant find someone who does it within a comfortable price range, I cant see myself paying $300+ just to have some headers coated!

well that is what is costs. if you cant afford it there is always some 7$ a can VHT header paint your welcome to waste your money on...