difference between intakes

[Smithkid21]

And yet it still probably performs just as well as the eBay CAI. I have nothing against your company, Mike. As I think it's sweet that you do such amazing work for this community, but at the end of the day, pipe is pipe. There really is no big difference in it to be worth spending the extra $110 for "specialty" tubing.

My .02

[[ChaosweaveR]]

^ bingo. The eBay CAIs and chromeintakes CAI all do the same exact thing for way less. I bought my chromeintakes CAI used off another member from GAOC for $30 shipped, that had to be four years ago, it's holding up fine with almost 100,000 miles on the intake, plus whatever mileage the previous owner used it for.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by Smithkid21

And yet it still probably performs just as well as the eBay CAI. I have nothing against your company, Mike. As I think it's sweet that you do such amazon work for this community, but at the end of the day, pipe is pipe. There really is no big difference in it to be worth spending the extra $110 for "specialty" tubing.

My .02

a few differences ...

the ebay ones leak because of their grommets. a leak after the MAF means unmetered air getting in the engine, which causes the engine to run lean.

they use non-reinforced couplers, not a huge deal, but very very cheap. they probably use these because they stretch easier so they don't have to run the right size to get them to fit. The 4-ply couplers we use don't stretch easy.

their clamps are not stainless, or maybe they're cheap stainless ... either way, they rust

our intake is made of insulative materials instead of heat-conducting ones, which means a colder intake charge. may not be a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

our intake uses genuine K&N filter, ebay comes with el cheapo knock-off brand.

look i agree that if someone makes their own cai that's 3.5" in diameter and not made of aluminum, with smooth transitions and a good filter, it will probaby perform exactly as ours does, but if you don't have all these things it may not perform as well. this mindset I have on always going with the better designed part, even if the power difference is slight may play a big part in why myself and those who buy my products hold almost all of the records for these engines. A couple hp here, a couple hp there adds up.

[AaronGTR]

With the air speed moving through a CAI heat soak really makes no difference because it doesn't have time to transfer much heat to the air. Also it only really happens when sitting at idle. While driving around there is enough air moving around the engine bay and through the intake to keep temps down, plus the tubing wall thickness is so thin and there is so little metal there that it doesn't hold much heat, IE it cools off very quickly. I've observed this myself.

So if you aren't sitting still heat soak is not an issue. Maybe your tubing keeps the air half a degree cooler. Maybe more... who knows? I'd have to see some comparison testing to tell. Your tubing is convoluted and flexible though, so it may introduce a tiny bit more turbulence in the air stream. Or it may not... again testing would be needed.


So do I think there is any real difference between your intake or an aluminum CAI? Nope, not really. I think picking the right size tubing, having a good filter that is large enough to reduce restriction, and pulling cold air from the fender are probably the most important factors. So basically buy from who you like, or from someone with good customer service, or who has the price you can afford. Whichever is most important to you.

[03black]

honestly, mike has good customer service. i have contacted him many times about random **** and he replies very fast with a in detail response. but right now i have a short ram from ebay until i can afford something better. I have big plans for this car. just right now, "baller on a budget" would fit me. (from ihatestickers.com)

[MilzyZ34]

it doesn't hurt my feelings if you'd rather get a cheap intake on ebay instead of mine when the ebay one is so much cheaper. times are tough, money is tight, i get it. Is the MMS intake better? in my opinion, definately. How much of a power difference? probably not a big difference, but i still think there is one. i would venture to say my intake would stay cooler in situations where the aluminum would get heat-soaked, like stop and go driving, and stop-light to stop-light racing. I'm also curious what the cfm rating of the ebay filter is, the ones i've seen look restrictive though.

What if you bought the ebay intake, but fixed all the cheap parts?

ebay cai - ~$30?
K&N filter - $40
decent couplers x 4 - 2 straight, 2 reducers - $42
decent stainless clamps x 9 - $20
so that's about $132 so far, remember also no shipping costs in these prices, now only one more thing to fix, the leaking grommets ...
MMS threaded IAT kit - $35
threaded bung for pcv tube, brass fitting - $10
pay someone to TIG weld IAT bung, pcv bung in intake tube - $10
so by the time you fix all this, you've spent $187 plus shipping on everything, and the intake is still made of aluminum.

maybe I'm just being picky, but i just can't stand the quality of the chinese junk that has saturated the performance industry. i'd probably make more money if i sold cheap products like that, but it just feels wrong.

unless you've seen the tubing we use in person, don't make assumptions on how the inside is just because the outside is obviously corrugated, it's actually very smooth.

no hard feelings, just having a spirited debate. in the end, get whatever works best for your needs, budget, and quality expectations.

[kzulfic]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

it doesn't hurt my feelings if you'd rather get a cheap intake on ebay instead of mine when the ebay one is so much cheaper. times are tough, money is tight, i get it. Is the MMS intake better? in my opinion, definately. How much of a power difference? probably not a big difference, but i still think there is one. i would venture to say my intake would stay cooler in situations where the aluminum would get heat-soaked, like stop and go driving, and stop-light to stop-light racing. I'm also curious what the cfm rating of the ebay filter is, the ones i've seen look restrictive though.

What if you bought the ebay intake, but fixed all the cheap parts?

ebay cai - ~$30?
K&N filter - $40
decent couplers x 4 - 2 straight, 2 reducers - $42
decent stainless clamps x 9 - $20
so that's about $132 so far, remember also no shipping costs in these prices, now only one more thing to fix, the leaking grommets ...
MMS threaded IAT kit - $35
threaded bung for pcv tube, brass fitting - $10
pay someone to TIG weld IAT bung, pcv bung in intake tube - $10
so by the time you fix all this, you've spent $187 plus shipping on everything, and the intake is still made of aluminum.

maybe I'm just being picky, but i just can't stand the quality of the chinese junk that has saturated the performance industry. i'd oprobably make more money if i sold cheap products like that, but it just feels wrong.

unless you've seen the tubing we use in person, don't make assumptions on how the inside is just because the outside is obviously corrugated, it's actually very smooth.

no hard feelings, just having a spirited debate. in the end, get whatever works best for your needs, budget, and quality expectations.

I prefer your opinion over most. You do have the fasted FWD LA1 GA, and you have your owns shop, and a store dedicated to GM V6.

Hopefully someday we can get people to realize you get what you pay for. My work has slowed down over time. Our product is the most expensive on the market, but it offers the best quality, and security, even though I still don't approve of some of the weld the let slide by, it is still much better than others.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by kzulfic

I prefer your opinion over most. You do have the fasted FWD LA1 GA, and you have your owns shop, and a store dedicated to GM V6.

Hopefully someday we can get people to realize you get what you pay for. My work has slowed down over time. Our product is the most expensive on the market, but it offers the best quality, and security, even though I still don't approve of some of the weld the let slide by, it is still much better than others.

I appreciate that.

We can always hope people will eventually learn that you get what you pay for, hopefully someday that will happen. In the import world, (which I am exposed to because my fabricator is into 240's and other cars like that, and all his customers drive ****-burners) I've noticed that they finally have realized that the $150 turbo manifolds on ebay will only last about a month before they crack, and that maybe it's worth buying something of better quality, even if it is quite a bit more ... mostly because my fabricator Jon holds no insults back as he explains over and over "No I won't fix your p.o.s. OBX header, it will just break again, you can pay me to build a new one, or go somewhere else" After a few years of this and other mechanics across the country saying the same thing, I think they finally are getting the message. Hopefully the people of this community can realize that maybe there is some truth to the saying you get what you pay for without having to spend a fortune buying ebay parts over and over and over. We can always hope.

I'm not saying you have to always buy the most expensive option. just do some research and find the products that have the features you want. for instance, make sure quality control and fitment (*cough* pacesetter *cough*) are things the company takes into account before making a big purchase.

[bricooper78]

I literally JUST got my chrome intakes ebay'er today, that replaces me home made plastic chrome piping I got from o'reilly and built myself.

I feel so ashamed right now Mike... I'm sorry I like the looks of yours, looks all military grade, is cool! However, in my application, the CAI is the only thing I've changed for any "perfomance mod" (hate the term mod anyways), and so I doubt my motor could tell much of a difference.

Now, something like that monster you built, or some of the 3500 hybrids, I could see that maybe that little extra makes more difference. I see both sides of the argument.

[kzulfic]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

I appreciate that.

We can always hope people will eventually learn that you get what you pay for, hopefully someday that will happen. In the import world, (which I am exposed to because my fabricator is into 240's and other cars like that, and all his customers drive ****-burners) I've noticed that they finally have realized that the $150 turbo manifolds on ebay will only last about a month before they crack, and that maybe it's worth buying something of better quality, even if it is quite a bit more ... mostly because my fabricator Jon holds no insults back as he explains over and over "No I won't fix your p.o.s. OBX header, it will just break again, you can pay me to build a new one, or go somewhere else" After a few years of this and other mechanics across the country saying the same thing, I think they finally are getting the message. Hopefully the people of this community can realize that maybe there is some truth to the saying you get what you pay for without having to spend a fortune buying ebay parts over and over and over. We can always hope.

I'm not saying you have to always buy the most expensive option. just do some research and find the products that have the features you want. for instance, make sure quality control and fitment (*cough* pacesetter *cough*) are things the company takes into account before making a big purchase.

Totally agree. Haha, its funny you mention pacesetter, those headers they got don't even look close to quality, mid you I have only seen pictures. I would hate to see them in person. The biggest thing I couldn't get over is the crossover, why wouldn't they just make a long tube design.

[kzulfic]

Originally Posted by bricooper78

I literally JUST got my chrome intakes ebay'er today, that replaces me home made plastic chrome piping I got from o'reilly and built myself.

I feel so ashamed right now Mike... I'm sorry I like the looks of yours, looks all military grade, is cool! However, in my application, the CAI is the only thing I've changed for any "perfomance mod" (hate the term mod anyways), and so I doubt my motor could tell much of a difference.


Now, something like that monster you built, or some of the 3500 hybrids, I could see that maybe that little extra makes more difference. I see both sides of the argument.

Cooper you should feel ashamed, take that POS you got, and return it, with your ninjabread buddies, and kick some China ass.

In all seriousness though, in your situation won't affect much, you'll just be taking food out of Mikes childens mouths. Now is the time to feel bad.

Ok, guess I can't be serious ATM, but you get the point.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by kzulfic

Totally agree. Haha, its funny you mention pacesetter, those headers they got don't even look close to quality, mid you I have only seen pictures. I would hate to see them in person. The biggest thing I couldn't get over is the crossover, why wouldn't they just make a long tube design.

pace setter tried the same double slip-fit collector design on grand prix headers about 5 years ago, and they sucked then, always failing. How don't they realize the major flaw in that design, and then 4 years later, make their grand am headers the same exact way.

I honestly don't remember seeing the crossover on the pace-setter headers. i don't think i got past staring at how bad the headers hit the trans on that prototype set. That's where my attention was focused. I mean here I am making our headers, I've got the engine and 4t45e in a mock-up car, I'e got another engine and 4t65e on a table, and a couple other transmissions like 4t60e, F40, 4 speed muncie and other laying around for test-fitting any trans you could possibly have in the car. I'm re-installing parts on the mock-up car to make sure everything fits like radiator hoses, heater hoses, transmission brackets, dipsticks on the 4t65e trans that the car didn't even come with, all the different mount setups we offer for each transmission, etc ... and here pacesetter can't even make the header not hit the transmission bigger than s***. How did they miss that? did they solely build them on a lone engine just sitting on the ground, and had no idea that bellhousing flange actually attached to something?

[bricooper78]

Well, I like the looks of theirs.. it does have the military, or dark knight kinda stuff, and i loves me some batman
Aside of a tune, and eventually exhaust, my car will never see internal work, and that really is the reason i don't see me ponying up. But that thing looks really sweet....

On Topic (for once ) like I say, I see both sides of this, me, and the just little differences just for the sake of being a little different, vs the powerhouse 'squeeze every tenth out' crowd, the crowd that might see more gains with Milzy intake. I have NO clue, and don't claim to, just based off what I read in this thread, if I personally was going for maximum grunt, I'd pony up for the Milzy. But I have a quick enough cruise around towner, I don't see my car noticing much of a difference either way.

For the record, I ordered the ebay one due to the fact that the one I built has some nasty habit of popping open at the bend I have NO ENGINEERING in me apparently, I have to have help in designing anything in my car!

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by kzulfic

Cooper you should feel ashamed, take that POS you got, and return it, with your ninjabread buddies, and kick some China ass.

In all seriousness though, in your situation won't affect much, you'll just be taking food out of Mikes childens mouths. Now is the time to feel bad.

Ok, guess I can't be serious ATM, but you get the point.

yeah, me and my 3 year old son WERE going to order some Pizza Hut this weekend, but now we'll have to settle for Ramen noodles again. Thanks a lot Cooper. haha just kidding.

no harm done. i can't really blame you guys for being tempted by an intake kit that is that cheap. it'd be nice if they made a nicer version with better parts.

[bricooper78]

Oh, I have a laundry list of parts to get, You'll get money from me sooner or later

I'll end up getting a program from you at least. I've always wondered what sort of kick that would give them... if I have the cash, may order another new intake and a program!

[MilzyZ34]

honestly, when i first came out with this intake, it was for 3800 grand prix's. i couldn't see why they were willing to fork out $200-250 for a hot air intake with a box built around it. When I came across this tubing, I found an affordable way to have complex bends without paying big bucks to have aluminum one-piece mandrel bent, (less couplers = less clamps = less cost and less places to leak), so i marketed that 3800 w-body cai for about 150 back then with a pcm tray since the stock pcm sits in the airbox. so back then, mine was the cheap alternative, now that china has come to power though, you can buy a shipping container full of cold air intakes hand-made my hong kong's 7 year olds for probably around $10 each probably less, and then throw them up on ebay and make a killing. There's a good chance they make more selling those $30 ones on ebay than I make on mine as sad as that is.

[kzulfic]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

pace setter tried the same double slip-fit collector design on grand prix headers about 5 years ago, and they sucked then, always failing. How don't they realize the major flaw in that design, and then 4 years later, make their grand am headers the same exact way.

I honestly don't remember seeing the crossover on the pace-setter headers. i don't think i got past staring at how bad the headers hit the trans on that prototype set. That's where my attention was focused. I mean here I am making our headers, I've got the engine and 4t45e in a mock-up car, I'e got another engine and 4t65e on a table, and a couple other transmissions like 4t60e, F40, 4 speed muncie and other laying around for test-fitting any trans you could possibly have in the car. I'm re-installing parts on the mock-up car to make sure everything fits like radiator hoses, heater hoses, transmission brackets, dipsticks on the 4t65e trans that the car didn't even come with, all the different mount setups we offer for each transmission, etc ... and here pacesetter can't even make the header not hit the transmission bigger than s***. How did they miss that? did they solely build them on a lone engine just sitting on the ground, and had no idea that bellhousing flange actually attached to something?

I'm confused, a 4 speed muncie? Elaborate please.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I for one, am all for quality parts.

However, these cars aren't exactly performance monsters, most of the kids buying them now don't escalate past doing a CAI and exhaust. A tune is a stretch. When I bought my CAI, I already had a K&N cone filter from my short ram setup.

My point? Sure, you have the fancy tubing and couplers, quality things...but for what, 2, maybe 3HP at best with a tune? That $140 just isn't worth spending for such a tiny gain, especially on a car that's just probably going to be a daily driver and see light modifications.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by kzulfic

I'm confused, a 4 speed muncie? Elaborate please.

1st gen fiero 2.8L optional trans. same bellhousing as 3400.

i bought a fiero a while back, ws thinking of doing a Grassroots Motorsports car, ended up selling it when I had too many projects. I bought it running and driving for $500, sold the engine for $375 sold the fuel pump assembly for $200 or something crazy, and then sold the car for $500 and kept the tranny. Not sure what to do with the tranny, so I use it mostly for test-fitting. I was going to use it behind an L67 when I was thinking of doing the Grassroots build.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by [ChaosweaveR]

I for one, am all for quality parts.

However, these cars aren't exactly performance monsters, most of the kids buying them now don't escalate past doing a CAI and exhaust. A tune is a stretch. When I bought my CAI, I already had a K&N cone filter from my short ram setup.

My point? Sure, you have the fancy tubing and couplers, quality things...but for what, 2, maybe 3HP at best with a tune? That $140 just isn't worth spending for such a tiny gain, especially on a car that's just probably going to be a daily driver and see light modifications.

It's not a real high hp mod, i would hope mine would yield more hp than that, but it's definately not a lot. I think for most people, they're just happy with the sound more than anything. as for power, it's hard to beat the gain/$ you get from a good pcm tune.