what trans to use

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by WireGeek

I was under the impression that my 1999 Grand Am has a 4T40-E transmission in it, and that the 4T45-E was later in the years these cars were manufactured. I believe I read that the 4T45-E was used from 2003 to 2005. I have no idea if this is correct and for that matter which transmission my car actually has in it?

Definitely not. It's a 4T45E for sure. 4T40E was only used in the 4cyl and was rpo code MN4. It was previously used with the 3100 engine. The 4T45E was introduced in '99 with increased torque capacity for use with the 3400 engine in N-chassis cars and is rpo code MN5. Every 99+ V6 grand am both SE and GT has a 4T45, and then there is another RPO code for their individual final drive ratio.

I found this trans on the web

http://www.importperformancetrans.co...sion-4311.html

3K for a transmission seems a little pricey and I'm not sure if it is worth the money for the unit?

Also Milzy Motorsports has a 4T65-E trans & conversion kit for 4K http://www.milzymotorsports.com/gran...onversion-kit/
and again I'm wondering if this is worth the 4K, it says it comes with a PCM written for the new trans.

I've seen someone else post a link to that IPT place before. Never heard of anyone who actually bought one of their transmissions though. No results or numbers on their site, and no specifics of what they actually do to the trans... that makes me very skeptical. I don't think it's worth $3k either. And they are in New Jersey... I don't trust companies from New Jersey. Level10 transmissions is in NJ too, and they used to build 4T65's for guys in the grand prix crowd, and a whole bunch of their trans exploded.

The swap kit from Milzy is expensive yes, but it does work and is good. If you have the knowledge and skill can you do it yourself cheaper? Sure. He provides a complete solution for people that can't do it themselves, or don't want to go through the effort, which is why it costs that much. I personally don't think it's worth it, but that's just me. It's nice to have the option there for people.

So just like royalboy I'm interested in what is the best way to go for a transmission in my 1999 GA SE once I'm ready to rebuild the car and make it my new toy....

...This time around I want to build a decent engine for it, and put a transmission behind it that will hold up.

Any info or advice I would greatly appreciate as I am only doing research at this point and getting a budget together to do this project.

I provided the parts myself and had mine rebuilt by a local guy and it was a little over $1k I think. I ordered my clutches and steels that were Koleen nitride treated though Rossler Transmission in Ohio. They did the complete trans build for Schweppe's car (second fastest GA on this site) and they have a good reputation. Anyway, here is a link to some of the upgrades that can be done to the 4T45E. http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showp...21&postcount=4

That thread used to be stickied at the top of the performance section but was getting old so it got removed. The trans info is still good though. Only think I still want to do to mine that I haven't got around to yet is replacing the plastic accumulator pistons. I have the aluminum ones from superior but I didn't have them when I did the first rebuild so I haven't installed them yet. I'll get around to it one of these days. Other than that, most of my build was simply replacing parts with upgraded parts. The raybestos clutches are really the key. Stock clutches don't have enough torque capacity. There are other things you can upgrade, parts that can be cryo-treated, etc etc. There is a member on here named gectek who works at a performance shop in Texas that was offering full custom rebuilds at one point. He had a huge list of options available and did really good work. I haven't heard from him in a long time though and don't know if he's still doing that or not. But it is possible to upgrade and modify a lot of the internals.

[sleepyalero]

Aaron ipt has a list of what is done to make that trans better.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by sleepyalero

Aaron ipt has a list of what is done to make that trans better.

Yeah, I remember looking at that before, and calling BS. It doesn't look like a real list, and doesn't really tell you anything.

Valve bodies are custom calibrated to provide firm, efficient shifts.
Modified pressure regulation system to furnish precise line pressure increase as needed with open throttle conditions.
Redesigned converter clutch apply circuit to yield greater holding capacity under high horsepower use.
New Solenoids installed
Modified pressure control solenoid installed (4T65E)
Additional Clutches Installed
Hi-Energy Friction Material Installed
Modified pump to increase volume and enhance fluid flow throughout the unit.
Heat treated pump driveshaft to prevent spline stripping
Heat treated apply sleeve to prevent breakage
Modified aftermarket front sun gear to prevent the pitting and galling often associated with the OEM part.
Heat treated final drive sun gear to prevent the metal fatigue associated with the OEM part.
New Torrington Bearing set installed to reduce frictional losses and prevent component failure
High strength drive chains utilized to prevent stretch and skipping teeth.
Limited Slip Differential available (optional)

First off, you can't "calibrate" the valve bodies to change the shifts. They are computer controlled by the shift solenoids. Same thing with the line pressure... computer controlled. You can't add clutches to the trans so that is BS. Modifying the fluid pump for more volume won't do any good since it's sized to provide the correct flow for the passages in the transmission, and may actually end up damaging the trans (like putting the high volume oil pump in an engine not modified for it).

All the other stuff they list like the heat treated pump shaft, sun gear, new bearings etc, is all stuff that GM upgraded themselves on the trans through '03 and all stuff you would get with normal replacement parts. It's not anything special they are doing, and is just a bunch of fluff they threw in there to wow noobs who don't know anything. That's why I said they don't sound reliable.

[WireGeek]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Definitely not. It's a 4T45E for sure. 4T40E was only used in the 4cyl and was rpo code MN4. It was previously used with the 3100 engine. The 4T45E was introduced in '99 with increased torque capacity for use with the 3400 engine in N-chassis cars and is rpo code MN5. Every 99+ V6 grand am both SE and GT has a 4T45, and then there is another RPO code for their individual final drive ratio.

Not sure who posted earlier about wikipedia being incorrect, but it might have been on their site that I got the information about the 4T40E being in all GAs from 1999-02. Maybe not getting old and suffering from the CRS syndrom but again it could be another case of Wiki misinformation.....Big Bang Theory where Raj replies when asked what is he doing "Updating Wikipedia with misinformation".....LOL!!

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I've seen someone else post a link to that IPT place before. Never heard of anyone who actually bought one of their transmissions though. No results or numbers on their site, and no specifics of what they actually do to the trans... that makes me very skeptical. I don't think it's worth $3k either. And they are in New Jersey... I don't trust companies from New Jersey. Level10 transmissions is in NJ too, and they used to build 4T65's for guys in the grand prix crowd, and a whole bunch of their trans exploded.

I'm with you on the New Jersey businesses being suspect, but Sleepyalero says they have a spec sheet on what they do the transmission. Although I'm still a little stuck on the 3K price tag, seems a little pricey for a DIY trans swap.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

The swap kit from Milzy is expensive yes, but it does work and is good. If you have the knowledge and skill can you do it yourself cheaper? Sure. He provides a complete solution for people that can't do it themselves, or don't want to go through the effort, which is why it costs that much. I personally don't think it's worth it, but that's just me. It's nice to have the option there for people.

You know I am all for the saving time thing, and if Milzy kit is a drop in, program and go product then the 4K price tag although pricey, is worth it. His description states that it comes with polyurethane bushings and engine mounts, axles, PCM Torque Converter extra. If this kit makes the 4T45E swap to a 4T65E swap a weekend project and the car is back up and running with a built trans than it would be worth the price tag. I used to be willing to spend hours working on a project in order to save a few bucks, but now that I earn a good income, I've had to rethink my time spent and if something like this saves me days of labor, and weeks of down time for the car than I'm OK with paying that kind of money.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

I provided the parts myself and had mine rebuilt by a local guy and it was a little over $1k I think. I ordered my clutches and steels that were Koleen nitride treated though Rossler Transmission in Ohio. They did the complete trans build for Schweppe's car (second fastest GA on this site) and they have a good reputation. Anyway, here is a link to some of the upgrades that can be done to the 4T45E. http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showp...21&postcount=4

That thread used to be stickied at the top of the performance section but was getting old so it got removed. The trans info is still good though. Only think I still want to do to mine that I haven't got around to yet is replacing the plastic accumulator pistons. I have the aluminum ones from superior but I didn't have them when I did the first rebuild so I haven't installed them yet. I'll get around to it one of these days. Other than that, most of my build was simply replacing parts with upgraded parts. The raybestos clutches are really the key. Stock clutches don't have enough torque capacity. There are other things you can upgrade, parts that can be cryo-treated, etc etc. There is a member on here named gectek who works at a performance shop in Texas that was offering full custom rebuilds at one point. He had a huge list of options available and did really good work. I haven't heard from him in a long time though and don't know if he's still doing that or not. But it is possible to upgrade and modify a lot of the internals.

I will definitely check out that post and see what it has to say.

I called my buddy that overhauls my transmissions, and was asking about rebuilding my Trans again only beefier, and he said if I get him a list of parts, suppliers, and what is done to it he can definitely rebuild it to take the hoarsepower, and probably for a lot less than 3K. Although when I told him that I called him a "Tranny Guy", he responded with....I don't wear women's cloths! To which I replied...with that long ass pony tail you could probably get away with it. His next response was.....How much are you looking to save? Keep giving me crap and that price could end up over 3K!! DOOH, don't piss off your transmission mechanic, even if he does have a pony tail longer than most women, including his wife!!!!

Originally Posted by sleepyalero

Aaron ipt has a list of what is done to make that trans better.

Thanks, I will give them a call and see what I can find!! If I keep pissing my transmission mechanic off I might have to go this route!!!

Thanks for the great responses!!

[sleepyalero]

They dont really have a spec sheet its more of a what was upgraded sheet. Says additional clutches and some other things..

[sleepyalero]

Heres there list on it.

Valve bodies are custom calibrated to provide firm, efficient shifts.
Modified pressure regulation system to furnish precise line pressure increase as needed with open throttle conditions.
Redesigned converter clutch apply circuit to yield greater holding capacity under high horsepower use.
New Solenoids installed
Modified pressure control solenoid installed (4T65E)
Additional Clutches Installed
Hi-Energy Friction Material Installed
Modified pump to increase volume and enhance fluid flow throughout the unit.
Heat treated pump driveshaft to prevent spline stripping
Heat treated apply sleeve to prevent breakage
Modified aftermarket front sun gear to prevent the pitting and galling often associated with the OEM part.
Heat treated final drive sun gear to prevent the metal fatigue associated with the OEM part.
New Torrington Bearing set installed to reduce frictional losses and prevent component failure
High strength drive chains utilized to prevent stretch and skipping teeth.
Limited Slip Differential available (optional)
4T40E and 4T45E: $2975

[AaronGTR]

Yeah, like I said half of that list is BS. They are a VERY suspect company IMO. No way I'd send them my money.

I'd go to Rossler long before them.

[WireGeek]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Yeah, like I said half of that list is BS. They are a VERY suspect company IMO. No way I'd send them my money.

I'd go to Rossler long before them.

Are you talking about these guys: http://www.rosslertrans.com/

You know I had seen that list on their website and was questioning many of the things you were, like:Redesigned converter clutch apply circuit to yield greater holding capacity under high horsepower use. AND Valve bodies are custom calibrated to provide firm, efficient shifts.

Sounds like a bunch of meaningless lines to impress people that don't know any better!

Although I was wondering about the extra clutches statement, I know when I used to overhaul turbo 350, and 400's back in the 80's the trick was to eliminate the play in the clutch packs by adding in an extra steel, or clutch and steel, if there was enough room for them, to eliminate the play in the clutch pack and make the shifts firmer and faster.

I wasn't aware that the 4T45E transmission needed this type of modification to increase the hold and shift firmness as it is an electronic trans.

BTW I'm dating myself with the turbo350 & 400 comment, and yes those transmissions were easy to overhaul and add shift kits to them, and I used to overhaul them myself. These new transmissions are out of my league and I typically rely on much more competent people than me and my shade tree experience!

[AaronGTR]

Yep, that's the link for Rossler. I know they are in Ohio. Schweppe lives in Ohio so he's close to them and had them do his complete trans build. I had them order me a set of the raybestos blue clutches and the treated steels at the same time since they were treating a set for him, and had them shipped to me for my build.

The thing I had to wait for longest was my EP limited slip diff. Was almost 6 months I think iirc? Took a long time to get the refund for my core charge too. It's not a perfect solution either, since it basically just a couple spring loaded plates between the halves of the stock diff that apply some pre-load and transfer a little force between the two sides. If you turn really hard and accelerate hard, or are on a very slippery surface, the inside tire will still spin. It helps a little bit though, and if one tires starts to spin it does continue to provide some push from the other tire, so it's better than stock. No one else makes a diff for this trans so it's the only choice. Quaife is too expensive and probably wouldn't be interested in making one since they wouldn't sell many, and phantom grip's design is patented (but it would certainly work better).

[H.O. Driver]

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