MMS ported mani's

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Not anyone that I've ever heard of or talked to...

You don't talk to anyone else then Grand Am owners then. Seriously.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

They should be posted on his store right alongside with the parts.

I've seen the flow numbers directly from the machine shop. Hell my flow numbers were better than previous heads. Honestly from the numbers seen people wouldn't even believe the numbers seen. Sure maybe their flow bench reads high or something. A good bit of the numbers are seen in the extras the machine shop does around the valve seat. If you've ever stared at a GM cylinder head for hours on end then you would understand how you could get a ton of flow out of it. I'd love to go further with heads than what Milzy wants to go but no cars are dedicated drag cars. I could find tons of flow around the valve guide if I could remove some supporting material.

It doesn't take a retard to tell you there is flow to be found in any inch of these heads or almost any part on these engines that not a single aftermarket company had done...ever. Some basic principles of LS style head porting aren't even touched on here like removing parts of the rocker bolt boss to where there are only threads of the bolt showing in the intake tract and having to use threadlocker or some sort of thread sealant on the rocker bolt.

Come at me.

[sleepyalero]

Let me just say..... ive seen the stage 3 heads milzy offers in person. They really are ported to the absolute MAX. If you go any further the valves would collide. Its very close but also enough space to keep things working safely.

[Vegeta]

Originally Posted by HOYS

I've seen the flow numbers directly from the machine shop. Hell my flow numbers were better than previous heads. Honestly from the numbers seen people wouldn't even believe the numbers seen. Sure maybe their flow bench reads high or something. A good bit of the numbers are seen in the extras the machine shop does around the valve seat. If you've ever stared at a GM cylinder head for hours on end then you would understand how you could get a ton of flow out of it. I'd love to go further with heads than what Milzy wants to go but no cars are dedicated drag cars. I could find tons of flow around the valve guide if I could remove some supporting material.

It doesn't take a retard to tell you there is flow to be found in any inch of these heads or almost any part on these engines that not a single aftermarket company had done...ever. Some basic principles of LS style head porting aren't even touched on here like removing parts of the rocker bolt boss to where there are only threads of the bolt showing in the intake tract and having to use threadlocker or some sort of thread sealant on the rocker bolt.

Come at me.

Quoted, so when you finally get some bench experience and do many back to back tests to design your work, you can read about how you stared at heads and imagined where the flow would be. By then, you should also have flowed many different styles of heads to realize what is and isn't "basic principles" for head porting. When the day comes you have the knowledge you pretend to have now, I want you to read this. You will be embarrassed for yourself.

[HOYS]

Originally Posted by Vegeta

Quoted, so when you finally get some bench experience and do many back to back tests to design your work, you can read about how you stared at heads and imagined where the flow would be. By then, you should also have flowed many different styles of heads to realize what is and isn't "basic principles" for head porting. When the day comes you have the knowledge you pretend to have now, I want you to read this. You will be embarrassed for yourself.

I want you to be embarrassed on how to try and put everyone else down and act like you know everything when you are quite possibly the worst "tuner" I've met in any automotive circle. I know people with far less time invested in platforms who never fry PCM's when they walk into other people's shop and try to get kids to buy stuff from them by giving them a free tune and then promptly blowing up their PCM.

You are a two bit joke who honestly thinks that "velocity" is that important. Seriously get out of here. You tune idle on OBD cars with a set screw, you are a joke. I've seen this all first hand. "Oh my laptop's power supply fried the PCM!"

Bull*hit. You don't know what you are doing and try to pass it off like you do.

Do I know everything or know what I'm doing 100% of the time? Nope.

Can I tell when others are? Yep.

Oh and I thought you were banned. Aaron bring you back to flex your d*ck around? I can't even be civil with you any more because of how silly you are online.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by HOYS

You don't talk to anyone else then Grand Am owners then. Seriously.

I've talked to plenty of other people and they all say the same thing. Honestly though, I don't understand how you think what ANYONE else with a different engine and car says about ported exhaust mani's has ANYTHING to do with our car. Different engines and designs... doesn't mean a damn thing about whether it's effective for OUR car or not. Welcome to basic performance tuning 101.

I've seen the flow numbers directly from the machine shop. Hell my flow numbers were better than previous heads. Honestly from the numbers seen people wouldn't even believe the numbers seen. Sure maybe their flow bench reads high or something. A good bit of the numbers are seen in the extras the machine shop does around the valve seat. If you've ever stared at a GM cylinder head for hours on end then you would understand how you could get a ton of flow out of it. I'd love to go further with heads than what Milzy wants to go but no cars are dedicated drag cars. I could find tons of flow around the valve guide if I could remove some supporting material.

It doesn't take a retard to tell you there is flow to be found in any inch of these heads or almost any part on these engines that not a single aftermarket company had done...ever. Some basic principles of LS style head porting aren't even touched on here like removing parts of the rocker bolt boss to where there are only threads of the bolt showing in the intake tract and having to use threadlocker or some sort of thread sealant on the rocker bolt.

Come at me.

Come at you? If you insist.

Any "retard" will think that simply hogging out the ports as large as possible will produce the most flow. Any knowledgeable person with a grasp of fluid dynamics knows this is not true.

If Milzy's heads are so great and his flow numbers are so great, why doesn't he post them on his site? And why doesn't he have the highest NA dyno numbers? I'm not saying his parts are bad. But I do know that Ben knows what he is doing with these engines, and that he has shown solid results for his parts. I prefer evidence over hearsay. If you want to have a technical discussion that's fine... show some evidence or at least go into some detail to support your position. If you're just going to get defensive and be insulting though, you'll keep getting warnings.

[sleepyalero]

Believe me im not trying to get into this fight

Ive seen milzys work and products first hand. They are nice and perform well. Look at randys turbo ga. It has great performance numbers for all that has been done.

He doesn't have the highest NA build because no one has gone with a full stage 3 NA build yet through him they always do the stage 1 or 2. So he doesnt have dyno numbers on the stage 3 stuff. I plan on doing the stage 3 stuff. So we will see how it goes once said and done.


What we need to do is have a test car between both MMS and ben. Throw milzys finest heads onto the car and all supporting mods that are needed for optimal performance. Throw a tune on the car and dyno it. Then that same car remove all parts have been throw on his heads and stuff to support along with his tune and see what comes out with better numbers. Now I know this will NEVER happen. But its something that I would like to see. (Also, im not favoring for one or another company) I am appreciative that both companies provide sht for these cars.

[HOYS]

I'll leave this discussion saying this:

This market is dead and nobody is going to spend a dime to prove their parts are better than others. Every discussion will be mindless banter, and I'm guilty of that from time to time.