Instrument Cluster Changes '99-'04

[The_Maniac]

Originally Posted by plastic_indian

An Alero EBCM cannot be used? The Alero iteration of the Gen V N car featured (or had available) WSS based TPM.

I assumed this feature on the Alero went away when it was gone from the Grand Am.

I'm looking at the shop book for a 2004 Alero and it make no mention of a TIM/TPM system, no indication of the light on the instrument cluster.
If it can be found that this system did exist in the Alero line, it could be the answer I seek for the EBCM!

[datashifter]

2001 and 2002 Alero owner's manuals (found online) depict the Low Tire Pressure indicator, just above the Low Oil indicator. Seems it disappears in the 2003 Alero.

http://justgivemethedamnmanual.com/o...owners-manuals

[The_Maniac]

Per the shop book, the '02 Alero and '04 Grand Am EBCM's share the same pin outs with exception that in '02 there are a few extras for the variable effort power steering.

I know looking up Grand Am info on this, some times the pics in the owner's manuals did not depict the removal of the TIM system. So, can anyone with with '02 Alero vouch that the TIM system exists on there car? Meanwhile, I am going to hit a dealer contact up and see if he can tell me if the EBCM on a '02 Alero is different then an '02 Grand Am. If it is different and an '02 Alero owner can confirm the TIM light functions when they start the car, I think I now have my answer to resurrect this system!

[datashifter]

How about some YouTube instructions on how to reset the Low Tire Pressure Light on a 2002 Oldsmobile Alero? I think that would be confirmation enough that the light works on a 2002...

[datashifter]

Or how about a video of a 2002 Oldsmobile Alero being started up, showing the dashboard indicators as it is cranked? At about 59 seconds into the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...ydJZD8Kd0#t=59

[The_Maniac]

Thanks Datashifter, I'm sold on seeing if I can get an EBCM from an '02 Alero next time I hit the junk yard. The only down side is that it's equipped for the variable effort power steering, so I am not sure what that may cause not having that feature (I assume either nothing or a possible trouble code for a diagnostic failure due to missing pieces).

[datashifter]

I forsee DTC's in your future...and it's my pleasure, sir.

While you're there, why not snag the parts for the VEPS and make yourself hybrid Grand Alero N-body?

[plastic_indian]

GM has dropped EVO support on C/K/G trucks; in lieu of the solenoid, a retrofit kit is sold utilizing a fixed orifice and a U-shaped tube to connect to the existing power steering hose. Refitting these trucks has never required a reflash in personal experience (although codes have admittedly never been pulled to check for any EVO DTCs), so it may work out the same on a passenger car with an EVO capable controller and fixed orifice steering; one way to find out...

[The_Maniac]

Honestly, I am not all that interested in Variable Effort Power Steering. I had it in my '02 Grand Am and I have it on my '04 Monte. It's nice, but not a big deal to me to resurrect.
Looking in the shop book, it appears there may be about 3 pieces to this (the EBCM, Electronic Variable Orifice Solenoid and Steering Wheel Position Sensor). The wiring for everything looks like it comes back to the EBCM. My guess is aside from running the wiring and vesting the time, it's probably not a big deal (pending the EBCM from an '02 works in an '04).

[plastic_indian]

Eh, the point was an EVO capable controller may be too dumb to know the EVO hardware isn't present.

[The_Maniac]

Originally Posted by plastic_indian

Eh, the point was an EVO capable controller may be too dumb to know the EVO hardware isn't present.

Which would be even better in my book and what I'm hoping for if my idea of the EBCM swap works to get the Tire Inflation Monitor resurrected.

[AaronGTR]

There isn't really any more point to having the TPM though than the VES. Actually I would think the VES would be more useful since you would use it all the time while driving the car.

[datashifter]

I feel they both would be handy...but that's just my two cents. That and $2.00 might get you a small cup of coffee at a gas station.

[datashifter]

Update on the IPC hacking...in a literal sense, waiting on a slow boat from China.

[datashifter]

The slow boat wasn't so slow after all! Next up, taking apart my car and connecting the donor IPC to get a mileage reading.

I might need to put this off a few weeks until the weather cools down a bit more. I'm the type who can sweat like an unfaithful woman in church by just standing still.

I replaced a door lock actuator about a week and a half ago and the heat was enough to make me curse myself for being such a cheapskate and not taking it somewhere to have someone else do the work. I won't mention the humming bird-sized mosquitoes...

[The_Maniac]

Something to add, the guy that runs this site:
http://www.whiteautoandmedia.com/
I have found his posts on multiple different car forums (thanks to a Google search) and some YouTube videos about the results he got from hacking the BCM/DIC/IPC in different GM cars. Since he offers these as services, no info how he's done it.

I have found information on using the cheap Elm USB/Bluetooth adapters to make a terminal session to the car network and "listen" to commands flying around and to send commands much like the OLD modem days.

I'm going to guess he found a way to dump a BIN file of the contents to a prom in the different modules, edits the BIN and re-flashes the device.

As a side note, I found that the '02 Alero and Grand Am use the same EBCM/ABS computer (which tells me the software is the same). So I am more inclined to suspect the issue being BCM related. I have access to a TechII and did some playing, it does inform in the BCM and EBCM that TIM is off. From everything I can tell, basic programming of the BCM (such as the VIN and some other items) is a 1 time write (once written, if it was done incorrectly, you need a new BCM, no re-writes). I have trouble believing that is 100% true (I am guessing the tools GM uses for BCM programming are built to detect if a VIN or program exists and NOT to re-write those). So if I try to reprogram my BCM with a TechII (as a Grand Am or Alero, it calls me on it, at that point I can only switch a couple items on an off).

I've been trying since last night to find ANYTHING about how to software hack the BCM. I'm wondering if it's a matter of tell the BCM to turn TIM on and it's good to go if the cluster has the LED and resistor.

[datashifter]

I have one of those ELM327 Bluetooth modules and have been using the Torque android app to scan my car for error codes for a couple of years. Admittedly I was happy enough with this and never needed/wanted/thought to crack open a terminal session with it. Upon doing a little reading about OBDC II, you are right about the command set being akin to the Hayes AT modem commands from back in the day. Might have to drag the hacktop to the car a little later and see if I can strike up a friendly conversation with the BCM via Bluetooth. I'm curious if there is a "programming fuse" in the BCM which gets blown after the VIN is set, or if GM's TECHII is simply saying "nah dude, I ain't gonna let you do that."

As for the IPC, I'm fairly confident that if someone else has managed to reprogram the mileage for our cars, I can figure it out as well. I have now received two multiple-protocol programmers and just last night I ordered a TSOP-8 clip-on connector to avoid desoldering the EEPROM to get a BIN dump from it, but there are also a number of round "pogo pin" pads on the exposed side of the daughter board - eight of which I am sure must connect to the EEPROM so GM's Electronic Service Center can reprogram the EEPROM without desoldering the daughter board of every IPC they have come in for mileage adjustment. If I could find my multimeter I could ohm out the EEPROM pogo pin pads for future reference. Wouldn't that be a thorn in the sides of GM and third parties offering this service, having their secrets made public? Kinda makes me smile. Does that make me a mean person? Lol!

Ate bad salmon last night at a restaurant and am suffering from food poisoning today. Might crawl out of bed just long enough to find my DMM...

On my agenda for the near future, getting enough parts of a Grand Am to get the BCM and ECM chatting on a work bench for analysis. Basically, replicate enough of the car's electrical system to do some real work in a test environment. Any thoughts on what all components I might need?

[The_Maniac]

I know in the Monte/Impala world (2000-2005 years), there is a guy that used to be able to re-program the VIN on those clusters. I could never get him to share his secrets

Anycase, I hope to tinker at some point with a terminal session on the car's computer and see what I can see. I suppose hypothetically, there might be a command string to tell the BCM to activate the TIM system. Wouldn't that be something!

I lack the knowledge about working with EEPROMs, add that to the list of things I wish I knew .

Regardless, this type of crap does get me interested. And modding the car's software is an interesting task!

[datashifter]

You said the Alero and Grand Am use the same EBCM/ABS computer. I wonder how identical their software is though. They could be running entirely different software. The TIM subroutine might not even be present in an EBCM factory-programmed for a Grand Am.

Might be time to buy an Alero EBCM, drop it into a Grand Am and see what works/what breaks...

[The_Maniac]

The EBCM part number differs on what year of these cars you have, but yeah, the GM part number for an Alero EBCM and Grand Am EBCM for the 2004 and 2002 model years match up. My focus was on the 2002, as the Grand Am does not have TIM and the Alero does have TIM.

My concern is since there is no TechII programming to be done on an EBCM (replacing it really is plug-in-play), then if the software on it was different, my assumption was that the part numbers would not match. You would have one part for an Alero with TIM and another part for a Grand Am with TIM.

So now, what this brings me to wondering.....
If the part numbers for the EBCMs are the same, could this mean the TIM programming does in fact exist in the EBCM but needs to be flipped on at the programming in the BCM? Which I would think would mean having a BCM loaded with the 2002 Alero programming.
Or, is there a way by sending terminal commands to the BCM to activate TIM (as the TechII shows TIM is not enabled, but does not allow you to enable it, since the TechII is designed to present what GM wants, it's not going to permit you to activate TIM on a car they do not want TIM functioning on).

Hope that all makes sense. I feel like I just spilled out a lot of info.

Despite my thoughts, I would still be curious if out of the factory the '02 Alero EBCM software is different then the Grand Am (would seem a bit odd since they have matching part numbers). Or is it really the BCM.