Grand Prix Tranny on GA

[Joshuaalpha]

My Dad and I are thinking about attempting to put a GP transmission on the GA. I asked myt dad if we could do it and he said yes. I am skeptical. A guy at work knows this guy who grashed his GP and is selling the manual 5 sp 2002 tranny for $300. The rest of the car is totalled but the tranny is still good. My Dad works at GM and thinks he can do anything with a car. I was just wondering what problems i would face in this. I would probably rather wait until they have the upgrades for out tranny but having a 5 spd manual tranny intriques me as the gains would probably be significant. The guys says that it is a 5 spd stick tranny and my dada says it's just a matter of connecting the wires and away you go. I think there will have to be some welding involved and alot of work. I would really appreciate some insight into this project. Thankyou.

Joshuaalpha

[iceman]

Wrong.. first of all, a 5 spd in a 2002 GP ?? I don't think so..

On top of that, swappign in a 4t65 requires mucho PCM work

[Kdawg207]

wtf

if the GTP came in a 5 speed stick...you'd all know me from the GP boards.

[Joshuaalpha]

yah,well, that is why i am skeptical
Joshuaalpha

[homegrown]

while it would be cool to see a GP tranny in a GA, why don't you guys just have someone rebuild your tranny for 2 grand so that it can handle the extra hp and bang right through the gears = no pcm nightmare, no custom fab, reliable transmission. that seems easier to me....but if you have the GM hookup, go for it.

[phantom505]

Why would we need a GM hookup? I have everything you really need to know. DHP can do the program easy enough. Cost will be about $3k (a guess). BTW, what are you going to beef up the 4T45 with? There simply is not anything out there so far. Raybestos is taking forever and that makes me very skeptical that they will make anything.

I just can't give my car up for the development this time because I finally got a real job. So..........

[PontiacGT2K]

Send your transmission to them, then tell me it's not bulletproof. http://www.levelten.com/

[phantom505]

Uh.... no.

Unless they fab their own parts then all you get is stock reworks. Not exactly what I think we are shooting for here.

How many people have you seen on these boards with that? Trust me, there is a very good reason.

Elrod discredited them a long time ago. And I trust him over them.

[PontiacGT2K]

They don't use stock parts, they use custom parts hence why they guarantee up to 400whp(just on our tranny) I believe. I don't know anyone on here with their re-build (probably because it's $2000+) but I do know a few guys that have their rebuild (in a turbo cavi, sc galant, turbo neon, turbo viper).

They do good work, so just because one guy has a problem doesn't mean there isn't 50 other guys who love their work.

It's kinda like the whole TOG debate. Everyone was saying "don't get TOG they're a horrible company" and look, people are buying them, and loving them. I don't really like the fact that they're shorter than the S&S, hence why I have the S&S, but you see my point?

Level 10 does good work, I know from friends' experience.

[phantom505]

Please understand my position.

Elrod is one of the engineers that worked on the GAGT and he is the one that made the proto type SC for the GA using the 4T65. I believe he also made the manual GAGT.

When I emailed and asked them about it, they did not offer any specifics. This made me very suspicious. I wish they would have becasue they may have got themselves another customer. But I do not trust any company that does not come out and tell me how they plan to do that. I think 400whp is an exaggeration, but then again nobody has hit it yet.

When I see dynos and times on the 4T45 followed by plenty of time to burn in, I'll believe it. If they really want to prove this and are willing to develop it with me, I'm intrested. But so far they have not lifted a finger to help. However, until I speak with someone with this specific tranny, I'm don't consider them a realistic solution.

Right now the simplest and best solution for us is a mod to 4T65 because it has plenty of aftermarket support and is simply rated much higher than ours.

[PontiacGT2K]

If by "rated much higher" you mean 280 lb-ft compared to 205lb-ft of torque, I'm sorry you just wasted $3000+. Level 10 is not necissarily looking for business, too many people just take their business there without any questions. It'd be nice if they gave you specifics, but I know they're race-proven, that's good enough for me.

[phantom505]

I guess you missed the part about "lots of aftermarket support" meaning, you won't put a stock 4T65 in anyway. You're right, that would be a waste.

[PontiacGT2K]

Either way, Level 10 does do good work. And just because a GM engineer says "no good" doesn't mean it's true.

I can think of a certain GM engineer that said "Headers will do nothing but set off the knock sensor, and cause huge amounts of retard, only leading to power loss". Wow, was he right.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Elrod, Spoon, and Di's presence here.....but they can be wrong too.

[jaketuff]

Originally posted by PontiacGT2K
Send your transmission to them, then tell me it's not bulletproof. http://www.levelten.com/

They are bullsh1t... Read about them in the "Tranny Fortification" thread. The last guy from clubgp had to go to court to get them to refund his money. They shipped him his tranny w/o the correct parts, with a stock spec rebuild kit, and then they tried to ignore him once he claimed things were not right. There is more available for the 4t65 (slightly) than the 45, and they could not even use the available parts - custom packs, bands etc... I don't think so, not from Level10. I also have heard from former employees that said a lot of the work they did was shady, and just back to stock spec where they indicate performance rebuilds, and "bulletproofing."

Go to them and I will tell you you're an id1ot - and your tranny is stock.

JOUT

[phantom505]

Thanks, glad someone else believes me.

Maybe I should buy someone's 4-banger from them in the next year so I can spend all the time I want on playing with the GT.

[GTPprix]

I have to agree with Jake on this one, while I normally try at all costs to avoid saying anything negative about a company because of my position now may be a good time. I have heard NOTHING but complaints about level 10's quality, customer service ect. More horror stories than I care to type The ONLY good experience I've seen so far was on a DSM Automatic.. but again on this transmission they DID screw up and put the wrong final drive in it. Go fig?

[homegrown]

Originally posted by phantom505
BTW, what are you going to beef up the 4T45 with? There simply is not anything out there so far. Raybestos is taking forever and that makes me very skeptical that they will make anything.

i don't know if raybestos will be enough....i am working with a guy out in cali, he only does custom one-off fwd drive transmission work, he builds trannies for cars that can take 1000 hp. he custom engineers parts specific for the trany he is working on to handle more hp and makes it so the transmission shifts harder and firmer w/o having to modify line pressure, everything is internal. i am not done yet and obviously will let you guys know how it turns out when done and spread the word if the results are good (which i know they will be)...this will be the key to getting into 12 second times...

[KpazzH0ly]

Originally posted by homegrown
i don't know if raybestos will be enough....i am working with a guy out in cali, he only does custom one-off fwd drive transmission work, he builds trannies for cars that can take 1000 hp. he custom engineers parts specific for the trany he is working on to handle more hp and makes it so the transmission shifts harder and firmer w/o having to modify line pressure, everything is internal. i am not done yet and obviously will let you guys know how it turns out when done and spread the word if the results are good (which i know they will be)...this will be the key to getting into 12 second times...

Good to hear. Keep us updated. Thnx for the info.... I was reading the latest Pontiac magazine and it stated that there have and are a lot of improvements for the GP tranny. And then it had 3 GPS. and a GA in a lil showdown. Which surprised me cuz there are a lot more faster GA's on here than the one that was shown. Bad rep for our car .

[GTPprix]

LOL that wasnt bad rep, that car is actually damn quick for the LACK of mods. We had Jaketuff ready to come out but couldnt make it at the last minute. That car is owned by my basically brother in law, H.O. Driver on here, and he was willing to come out at a moments notice. You guys should be happy! Theres ALOT more Grand Am Stuff in the tubes.. and alot of firsts as well. The previous issue we featured KMan's car in the shootout so we did find some fast GA's too!

[H.O. Driver]

Originally posted by GTPprix
H.O. Driver on here, and he was willing to come out at a moments notice.

We raced on a Tues. and the Sat. before (yup, that would be 3 days notice) I got a phone call late that night telling me that he needed a GA in Ohio in 3 days. I got out of work, and classes, and made the 400 mile drive.