The truth about caps

schizm99 · 12-10-2003, 08:47 PM

I was reading thru AMIGRANDs' post on caps and adding a 2nd battery. (thx AMIGRAND).. I would like to say that after running my 1 farred cap for almost 6months I have really come to believe it a love/hate relationship.
The cap itself doesn't seem to fully charge immediatly. If I drive for about 10 minutes then turn on the boom it is o.k... For those of you having trouble with your lights dimming even with caps. I suggest that you also drive for a few minutes before turning your radio on. This gives your system a chance to charge and replemish the discharge from starting.
Also with winter here I have a harder time keeping my lights bright %100 of the time. After all you use your headlights, heater, and rear defroster. Remember everything you use basically comes from your ALT. and only uses your battery to support what your ALT can't run.

Anyone can correct me if I am wrong on this! Also AMIGRAND I would love to have a diagram on running a 2nd battery!

2002GT · 12-10-2003, 08:51 PM

so... anyone selling a cap... my lights dim

mjhurley1 · 12-10-2003, 08:55 PM

Yes, I have a 1 farad Lightning cap with digital readout for sale. Lookin for $50 shipped.

iceman · 12-10-2003, 09:00 PM

If you are pushin that much juice.. might want to invest in a better battery. My yellowtop / 1 farad cap combo works great. As far as taking minutes to charge the cap.. last time I checked that's not how a capacitor works..

Kodeblue · 12-10-2003, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mjhurley1
Yes, I have a 1 farad Lightning cap with digital readout for sale. Lookin for $50 shipped.

If you still have this, I will be in Port Huron maybe next week, I'd be interested in that.

2002GT · 12-10-2003, 09:17 PM

Hey!

next friday that will be mine...

schizm99 · 12-10-2003, 09:20 PM

.. last time I checked that's not how a capacitor works.. [/b][/quote]

I meant the battery and such also

AmIGrand · 12-10-2003, 09:28 PM

2nd battery wiring described in the sticky thread thread, more detail in the last post.

brchn1 · 12-10-2003, 10:36 PM

So you say what your alt can't run will pull off your battery, right? Well what happens when you add another battery to the picture? Now that is one more thing for your equipment to pull off of when your alt can't keep up with. It is also one more thing for your alt to try and charge when needed. So you gained nothing. The only time a second battery is needed is when you want more key off play time. If you are having problems with lights dimming....get a bigger alt. Caps work if you buy the right ones. There are cheap ones out there that do not work. Check out the somewhat new company called bat cap. Same price as a good cap with 10 times the performace. Peace, Lee

Kodeblue · 12-11-2003, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brchn1
Check out the somewhat new company called bat cap. Same price as a good cap with 10 times the performace. Peace, Lee

Where can I get info on this bat cap? I have searched with no results.

CruzinGT33 · 12-11-2003, 07:47 AM

^Same, Searched with no luck.

GregFarz78 · 12-11-2003, 10:26 AM

Here is my take on caps...I'm just speaking for the average car audio setup most of us have in our cars, not some 5000W competition system...

I see it as a "band-aid" more than a permanent fix. Instead of wasting that money on a cap save up just a little bit more and buy a high output alternator. Figure a good cap runs around $100+, a high output alternator is probably $200-300. You can take that $100 you would use for the cap plus you can sell your stock alternator and get at least $100 out of it if its fairly new. Or get your stock one rewound although thats not the best way to go its cheaper. 200amp alternator should be plenty for most, unless you have some crazy high powered system then its a whole new ballgame.

It seems alternators are the most overlooked mod in car audio, kinda like brake upgrades are the most overlooked mod in performance mods. A cap just doesnt seem like a good solution IMO I'd shell out the extra money and do it right. Also upgrade the power wiring from the cap to starter to battery, and the ground wiring. Depends on the amp efficiency too, I ran about 800W RMS in my GA with optima yellow top and the lights never dimmed the voltage remained 14v. Just my 0.02

brchn1 · 12-11-2003, 11:07 AM

The web site is www.batcap.net and Gregfarz78 you are exactly right. You should upgrade the alt first, not just add a cap. Peace, Lee

zx7ninja · 12-11-2003, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CruzinGT33
^Same, Searched with no luck.

Wow, i'm surprised you guys haven't heard of the batcap. Try www.batcap.net There should be all the info you need right there.

They have been around at least a couple of years, I myself have had four of the batcap 400's for a year and a half. I had a system with 5600 watts rms to the sub section alone. I used one batcap per sub amp. All this was on a stock alt with a stock battery. I had no problems at all, although the battery did eventually die. Crap stock batt. I replaced it with a 29.99 battery from wal-mart and it's been fine since.

Unfortunately, I don't have my setup anymore. Part was stolen, and the rest i've been selling off due to hard times. But I will be doing another, smaller system, and I will be using the batcap in all my future systems.

In fact, I know many others, including audio company employees, (Image Dynamics, for one), and other IASCA competitiors who swear by the batcap.

edit:

, someone beat me to it. that's what I get for trying to type a reply here at work, where it takes 2 hours to type a reply when the damn phone keeps ringin'.

AmIGrand · 12-11-2003, 12:28 PM

Batcaps rule. Anybody like to race? Replace the underhood battery with a Batcap 800. 1/3 the space of the stock unit, stronger discharge rate, more than enough juice to start the car (800 CCA's), and weighs only 10 lbs!!!!

brchn1 - your post is a little confusing. You are correct in stating that a second battery is an extra load on the alternator, but you go on to say that some caps are a better alternative. This is not true. Any cap is an extra load on the alt jus as a 2nd battery is, but they don't have the reserve capacity that a battery does. The extra reserve in a second batt allows the charging system more breathing room before the alt "takes the hit". Unless you have your system cranked 100% of the time (hope you have ear plugs), there is plenty of "downtime" in normal driving for the second battery to be recharged. A cap discharges almost instantly, and needs to be charged continuously as it works. A second battery acts like a really really big cap that can go a while before it's drained. Batcaps are awesome, but they're kind of an "in between" solution. Rewinding/replacing the alternator is the best way to go, but for a powerful but not over the top setup, a second battery in the trunk will get the job done.

sound_xtreme · 12-11-2003, 12:36 PM

caps should charge within a few seconds. they arent like a battery. battery's hold an recieve charge fairly slow(some can be fairly quick). but caps are charge and discharge very rapidly. that is why they arent as effective as batteries.

brchn1 · 12-11-2003, 01:45 PM

Caps are a real small pull from the alt compared to a half dead battery though. The second battery is not a good idea in the fact of venting also. Everyone forgets about that. The 16 volt batteries in our Escort really get to fuming when we charge them and I would hate to have that in the car while I'm driving around. You are right in the fact that a cap, bat cap, or battery is another load, its just that a bat cap or cap are less of a straining load then a battery. I would STRONGLY suggest upgrading the alt and maybe amp wires before adding ANY of the three though. The extra battery is not a good idea for your average everyday system in my opinion and the opinion of most car audio people. I continually read that question in magazines every month and everytime they say the same as I do. But if you want to then atleast make sure to put in an isolater and make sure to vent the battery box. Peace, Lee

Kodeblue · 12-11-2003, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmIGrand
Batcaps rule. Anybody like to race? Replace the underhood battery with a Batcap 800. 1/3 the space of the stock unit, stronger discharge rate, more than enough juice to start the car (800 CCA's), and weighs only 10 lbs!!!!

Let me get this right here, you are saying you don't need a battery if you have a Bat Cap 800? How long does this hold a charge for?

zx7ninja · 12-11-2003, 04:15 PM

The batcap800 IS the equivqlent of the car battery, batcap style. It should last just as long as a normal car battery, but with some batcap advantages. Here's the link:

http://www.batcap.net/Model800.html

GaRedCoupe · 12-11-2003, 05:07 PM

My battery only lasts 5 minutes without the car running. All my lights dim when the car is on. does this mean i need a cap

.

I have always found out that everything is ok as long as the car is running. Never had any problems I will probably buy a caps sooner or later but not right now.

I did have 2 10 power acoustik fubrs and they took a ton of power. I had to take them back cause my 760 watt sony didn't power them right. Thats when i got my infinities.

Anyone know if an optima battery is any better than other battery's and how much better are they.

12-10-2003, 08:47 PM	#1
schizm99 GAGT - Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Maine Age: 50 Posts: 279 Vehicle: 2000 GAGT	The truth about caps I was reading thru AMIGRANDs' post on caps and adding a 2nd battery. (thx AMIGRAND).. I would like to say that after running my 1 farred cap for almost 6months I have really come to believe it a love/hate relationship. The cap itself doesn't seem to fully charge immediatly. If I drive for about 10 minutes then turn on the boom it is o.k... For those of you having trouble with your lights dimming even with caps. I suggest that you also drive for a few minutes before turning your radio on. This gives your system a chance to charge and replemish the discharge from starting. Also with winter here I have a harder time keeping my lights bright %100 of the time. After all you use your headlights, heater, and rear defroster. Remember everything you use basically comes from your ALT. and only uses your battery to support what your ALT can't run. Anyone can correct me if I am wrong on this! Also AMIGRAND I would love to have a diagram on running a 2nd battery! __________________ Hippies, hippies all around me! They pretend they wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad!!

12-10-2003, 08:55 PM	#3
mjhurley1 GAGT - Member AKA: Mike Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Shelby Township, Michigan Posts: 497 Vehicle: 2004 Grand Prix GT	Yes, I have a 1 farad Lightning cap with digital readout for sale. Lookin for $50 shipped. __________________ Mike

12-10-2003, 09:00 PM	#4
iceman woop woop AKA: Seth Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Age: 41 Posts: 10,528 Vehicle: 97 Blazer - 84 Fiero	If you are pushin that much juice.. might want to invest in a better battery. My yellowtop / 1 farad cap combo works great. As far as taking minutes to charge the cap.. last time I checked that's not how a capacitor works.. __________________ --Seth Support GrandAmGT.com sponsors! My Picture Gallery \| GoneDragRacing.com Drag Racing Photos & Videos

12-10-2003, 09:20 PM	#7
schizm99 GAGT - Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Maine Age: 50 Posts: 279 Vehicle: 2000 GAGT	oops .. last time I checked that's not how a capacitor works.. [/b][/quote] I meant the battery and such also __________________ Hippies, hippies all around me! They pretend they wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad!!

12-10-2003, 09:28 PM	#8
AmIGrand Car Audio Guy AKA: Jamin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas, Baby! Age: 46 Posts: 993 Vehicle: '05 Ion Redline	2nd battery wiring described in the sticky thread thread, more detail in the last post. __________________ Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2200 ft): 15.922 @ 86.70 MPH, stock '98 2.4 / 5 speed coupe with a K&N drop in filter and crappy tires (2.3 60's). Gone now.... R.I.P. 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX W41, parted out. 2005 Pacific Blue Ion Redline, competition package, set up for SCCA Stock class, Koni Yellows/Hawk pads/Powergrid endlinks/245/40/17 BFG R1's for race day... Last edited by AmIGrand; 12-10-2003 at 09:34 PM.

12-10-2003, 08:51 PM	#2
2002GT GAGT - Junkie AKA: Nick Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southeast Posts: 3,817 Vehicle: Charger 392	so... anyone selling a cap... my lights dim

12-10-2003, 09:17 PM	#6
2002GT GAGT - Junkie AKA: Nick Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southeast Posts: 3,817 Vehicle: Charger 392	Hey! next friday that will be mine...

12-10-2003, 10:36 PM	#9
brchn1 GAGT - Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sidney, Montana Age: 44 Posts: 189 Vehicle: 1988 turbo ga	So you say what your alt can't run will pull off your battery, right? Well what happens when you add another battery to the picture? Now that is one more thing for your equipment to pull off of when your alt can't keep up with. It is also one more thing for your alt to try and charge when needed. So you gained nothing. The only time a second battery is needed is when you want more key off play time. If you are having problems with lights dimming....get a bigger alt. Caps work if you buy the right ones. There are cheap ones out there that do not work. Check out the somewhat new company called bat cap. Same price as a good cap with 10 times the performace. Peace, Lee __________________ Live everyday as if it is your last. www.redlineaudio.com

12-11-2003, 07:47 AM	#11
CruzinGT33 JustinX AKA: Justin Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern Illinois Age: 37 Posts: 738 Vehicle: '01 GAGT Silver Coupe	^Same, Searched with no luck. __________________ Going to the Dark side, '05-'06 Tibby... i know, I know. My Cardomain Page "What?!?" "Oh, I hope noone **** on my coat!!"

12-11-2003, 10:26 AM	#12
GregFarz78 GAGT - Junkie AKA: See Above Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Philly, PA Age: 43 Posts: 4,413 Vehicle: 04 Honda S2000	Here is my take on caps...I'm just speaking for the average car audio setup most of us have in our cars, not some 5000W competition system... I see it as a "band-aid" more than a permanent fix. Instead of wasting that money on a cap save up just a little bit more and buy a high output alternator. Figure a good cap runs around $100+, a high output alternator is probably $200-300. You can take that $100 you would use for the cap plus you can sell your stock alternator and get at least $100 out of it if its fairly new. Or get your stock one rewound although thats not the best way to go its cheaper. 200amp alternator should be plenty for most, unless you have some crazy high powered system then its a whole new ballgame. It seems alternators are the most overlooked mod in car audio, kinda like brake upgrades are the most overlooked mod in performance mods. A cap just doesnt seem like a good solution IMO I'd shell out the extra money and do it right. Also upgrade the power wiring from the cap to starter to battery, and the ground wiring. Depends on the amp efficiency too, I ran about 800W RMS in my GA with optima yellow top and the lights never dimmed the voltage remained 14v. Just my 0.02 __________________ My Pics

12-11-2003, 11:07 AM	#13
brchn1 GAGT - Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sidney, Montana Age: 44 Posts: 189 Vehicle: 1988 turbo ga	The web site is www.batcap.net and Gregfarz78 you are exactly right. You should upgrade the alt first, not just add a cap. Peace, Lee __________________ Live everyday as if it is your last. www.redlineaudio.com

12-11-2003, 12:28 PM	#15
AmIGrand Car Audio Guy AKA: Jamin Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas, Baby! Age: 46 Posts: 993 Vehicle: '05 Ion Redline	Batcaps rule. Anybody like to race? Replace the underhood battery with a Batcap 800. 1/3 the space of the stock unit, stronger discharge rate, more than enough juice to start the car (800 CCA's), and weighs only 10 lbs!!!! brchn1 - your post is a little confusing. You are correct in stating that a second battery is an extra load on the alternator, but you go on to say that some caps are a better alternative. This is not true. Any cap is an extra load on the alt jus as a 2nd battery is, but they don't have the reserve capacity that a battery does. The extra reserve in a second batt allows the charging system more breathing room before the alt "takes the hit". Unless you have your system cranked 100% of the time (hope you have ear plugs), there is plenty of "downtime" in normal driving for the second battery to be recharged. A cap discharges almost instantly, and needs to be charged continuously as it works. A second battery acts like a really really big cap that can go a while before it's drained. Batcaps are awesome, but they're kind of an "in between" solution. Rewinding/replacing the alternator is the best way to go, but for a powerful but not over the top setup, a second battery in the trunk will get the job done. __________________ Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2200 ft): 15.922 @ 86.70 MPH, stock '98 2.4 / 5 speed coupe with a K&N drop in filter and crappy tires (2.3 60's). Gone now.... R.I.P. 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX W41, parted out. 2005 Pacific Blue Ion Redline, competition package, set up for SCCA Stock class, Koni Yellows/Hawk pads/Powergrid endlinks/245/40/17 BFG R1's for race day...

12-11-2003, 12:36 PM	#16
sound_xtreme Modalero Owner Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Findlay, Ohio Age: 38 Posts: 402 Vehicle: 1999 Oldsmobile Alero	caps should charge within a few seconds. they arent like a battery. battery's hold an recieve charge fairly slow(some can be fairly quick). but caps are charge and discharge very rapidly. that is why they arent as effective as batteries. __________________ My Alero: http://www.cardomain.com/id/sound_xtreme http://www.aleroplanet.com/album Ohio Rides

12-11-2003, 01:45 PM	#17
brchn1 GAGT - Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sidney, Montana Age: 44 Posts: 189 Vehicle: 1988 turbo ga	Caps are a real small pull from the alt compared to a half dead battery though. The second battery is not a good idea in the fact of venting also. Everyone forgets about that. The 16 volt batteries in our Escort really get to fuming when we charge them and I would hate to have that in the car while I'm driving around. You are right in the fact that a cap, bat cap, or battery is another load, its just that a bat cap or cap are less of a straining load then a battery. I would STRONGLY suggest upgrading the alt and maybe amp wires before adding ANY of the three though. The extra battery is not a good idea for your average everyday system in my opinion and the opinion of most car audio people. I continually read that question in magazines every month and everytime they say the same as I do. But if you want to then atleast make sure to put in an isolater and make sure to vent the battery box. Peace, Lee __________________ Live everyday as if it is your last. www.redlineaudio.com

12-11-2003, 04:15 PM	#19
zx7ninja Uber SQ in the works AKA: Tom Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CT Age: 45 Posts: 565 Vehicle: 2011 Hyundai Sonata	The batcap800 IS the equivqlent of the car battery, batcap style. It should last just as long as a normal car battery, but with some batcap advantages. Here's the link: http://www.batcap.net/Model800.html __________________ 2001 SE 5-speed Borla exhaust, magnaflow high-flow cat, pacesetter header w/downpipe GT body work

12-11-2003, 05:07 PM	#20
GaRedCoupe GAGT - Member AKA: Eric Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Raymore Missouri Age: 34 Posts: 317 Vehicle: 1998 Grand Prix GTP	My battery only lasts 5 minutes without the car running. All my lights dim when the car is on. does this mean i need a cap . I have always found out that everything is ok as long as the car is running. Never had any problems I will probably buy a caps sooner or later but not right now. I did have 2 10 power acoustik fubrs and they took a ton of power. I had to take them back cause my 760 watt sony didn't power them right. Thats when i got my infinities. Anyone know if an optima battery is any better than other battery's and how much better are they.

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