To Turbo or not to turbo

[GuywithaGA]

I have a 2003 V6 Grand Am SE and I am curious about installing a turbo on it.
I have a few questions before I decided to make such an investment.
1. Who makes a turbo for the Grand Am (or does it really matter) and where would i go to purchase it.
2. Pros and Cons. Short Term and Long Term. (Is there really any reason why you wouldn't want to install one)
3. Where would I go to have a turbo installed and what am i to expect when i ask the poor soul to install it for me.

Thank you for your time

[coupe]

You are talkin upwards of $4000 for just the kit. Domestic performance makes one but only 1 or 2 guys have it so far.
Dont use the word investment......there is no such thing.

[GuywithaGA]

Originally Posted by coupe

You are talkin upwards of $4000 for just the kit. Domestic performance makes one but only 1 or 2 guys have it so far.
Dont use the word investment......there is no such thing.

Ok I guess I'll use the phrase performance enhancement system. Now I'm in the beginning stages of learning about cars but slapping a turbo in there would be a better improvement considering the Price-to-performance ratio than for example, a CAI and exhaust?

[GrahamKracka]

performance wise....i would say a turbo or supercharger is the last on the list.....CAI and exhaust are usually the first

[GuywithaGA]

Assuming I bought a CAI and exhaust what components should I buy before installing a turbo and why?
Besides the fact the imports seem to be more popular for modding, why can't I easily find a friggin turbo kit for my Grand AM? What website and/or location should I goto to buy a turbo kit

[KpazzH0ly]

hp performance makes a turbo for 3500 i believe. PM phantom505 he's got the turbo.
-Most people start off with small stuff-
Depending on how fast you want to go or what you want to do with your car will depend what route you should take.

[BOYZERO]

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/99-04%20Grand%20Am.htm

quite a few people already have it and most of us are still waiting for computer tunning. i had to wait 5 mos before i saw anything in the mail when promised 1 month. and going 6 now and still dont have the computer they say you get with it. plus it doesnt come with injectors which they say you need for the tunning. and no instructions. if i were you id get a custom turbo for less $ and hassle. you can maybe ask 3800 performance about their cartunning kit for the grand prix..

http://www.3800performance.com/vehic...97_03_miva.htm

plus the supercharger is too expensive for the output you get. especially from rsm. youd be better off waiting till someone tries to sell their magnacharger....
good luck!!

[FORTEEN3GT]

your best bet is to buy a whipple and have that custom fabricated for around 4k..... better than a turbo and any other sc! it is like a roots but it is a screw blower that compresses the air before it inters the intake!

they had a rustang with the same cubic inchs with 2 blowers ...one a whipple and the other the eaton... lets just say the whipple put out 75 more horsepower at the same boost level!

stick with a custom setup... the rsm is overpriced without the necessary intercooler... those v-9's get really hot!

the turbo by HP has its own problems.... such as tech support and tuning.

i would consider an intercooled procharger but you are still stuck with building a shaft for it.....

as far as a turbo... if you can fit a ubend on the s and s headers you can make a custom kit from that... but the best or easiest thing to do is use the stock manifolds... cut off the downpipe and make a turbo from that..... isnt that what deek did for his?

[phantom505]

your best bet is to buy a whipple and have that custom fabricated for around 4k..... better than a turbo and any other sc! it is like a roots but it is a screw blower that compresses the air before it inters the intake!

Ummm.... NO. A Whipple would not be better. And until someone puts on a GA, I will think that to my grave. A Whipple is acts like a glorified centrifuge powerwise. Gee, can a centrifuge blow away a roots on a Rustang? Sounds fishy to me.

My turbo still hands down puts down more torque than any SC on these boards...... (I've never seen Pat's torque, so maybe he's the exception). As many problem with tensioners and durability/tuning issues as I've seen on these boards I don't see how anyone can say they are more durable. I know my car is off the road, but I put down a good hard 12,000 miles on mine and never had an issue with the turbo/engine. The only think that started to go was the transmission, and even that went 12,000 under brutal conditions.

HPP's has no more problems tuning than any SC here.... INCLUDING RSM's, whose tuning is argueably worse. Using stock manifolds IS DUMB. They are restrictive enough as it is. You don't need to add to the mess.


I don't mean to be insultive, but come on man..... WHO sold you on SC's????? You pimp them as if they have done really really well (which I haven't seen hardly a one break 14's, expect Spaz's, and I'm not sure what all he did to his car for that run). Bottom line is I've hardly seen a person come close to my dynos, particularly on the torque end of things (boost for boost). And before someone starts whining about 1/4 mile times, I'm doing one as soon as my car gets together. I've put the guy doing my newer set of headers feet to the fire and I'm hoping I can make it to ATCO with Pat and Spaz.


BTW, deek's setup sucked.

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by phantom505

BTW, deek's setup sucked.

The thing w/ Deek's setup was. It worked, if he wasn't a cheap kid and instead went out tuned it on a dyno, and had a real rebuilt transmission it would have provided better results than a nearly 14 second flat pass. Sorry if it's not to your spec, he was cheap in putting it together, but the fact was it's a working setup.

[Schweppe23]

Originally Posted by phantom505

Ummm.... NO. A Whipple would not be better. And until someone puts on a GA, I will think that to my grave. A Whipple is acts like a glorified centrifuge powerwise. Gee, can a centrifuge blow away a roots on a Rustang? Sounds fishy to me.

My turbo still hands down puts down more torque than any SC on these boards...... (I've never seen Pat's torque, so maybe he's the exception). As many problem with tensioners and durability/tuning issues as I've seen on these boards I don't see how anyone can say they are more durable. I know my car is off the road, but I put down a good hard 12,000 miles on mine and never had an issue with the turbo/engine. The only think that started to go was the transmission, and even that went 12,000 under brutal conditions.

HPP's has no more problems tuning than any SC here.... INCLUDING RSM's, whose tuning is argueably worse. Using stock manifolds IS DUMB. They are restrictive enough as it is. You don't need to add to the mess.


I don't mean to be insultive, but come on man..... WHO sold you on SC's????? You pimp them as if they have done really really well (which I haven't seen hardly a one break 14's, expect Spaz's, and I'm not sure what all he did to his car for that run). Bottom line is I've hardly seen a person come close to my dynos, particularly on the torque end of things (boost for boost). And before someone starts whining about 1/4 mile times, I'm doing one as soon as my car gets together. I've put the guy doing my newer set of headers feet to the fire and I'm hoping I can make it to ATCO with Pat and Spaz.


BTW, deek's setup sucked.

Yeah i have no experience working with twin screws, but from most of the reading i've done, they seem to be a good choice for a blower. The tensioner on my car has gone out twice, they absolutely do suck. To be honest I don't know what my torque #'s are. I've swapped to a smaller pulley for Atco, now im running in the vicinity of 7psi. I know at 5psi i was laying down 254whp. I was gonna try and get to a dyno for some fine tuning, prior to Atco but my work week is looking kinda crazy. I've made a couple of 13.8 sec. passes with my 5 # pulley on it. After i swapped to the 7# pulley, the car def. felt more responsive and stronger, so i took it to the track to be sure. My 1/8 mile mph was up 3mph but i was still finishing about the same. I graphed the rpm's and it is showing a terrible 2-3 shift (engages into the next shift then back to 2nd then back to 3rd where it finally holds it) so thats where i'm figuring i'm losing my gain. This trans. is pretty much sh!t now, but i'm still thinking it has a 13.6 pass left for Atco.
Tom if you get r done in time let me know and maybe i can rent a 2 car trailer.

Pat

[phantom505]

The problem with Deeks is that he had no IC (or at least I didn't see one). More than the tuning, more than the manifolds, more than everything else. You can't put 250*F air into an engine and expect results.

Yes, tuning would help his case.

Pat, what RPM was the 254 HP at? (just curious) You are probably at about the HP where we have to start doing 3rd gear pulls only.

[coupe]

Originally Posted by GuywithaGA

Ok I guess I'll use the phrase performance enhancement system. Now I'm in the beginning stages of learning about cars but slapping a turbo in there would be a better improvement considering the Price-to-performance ratio than for example, a CAI and exhaust?

You have ALOT to learn before you can really ask these questions. If you are just now learning how cars even work youll have a hard enough time just putting on a CAI and bolton cat-back let alone a turbo.

[mr_eh]

atco better not rain out
MUAHAHHAHAHA

[Lash]

Originally Posted by GuywithaGA

3. Where would I go to have a turbo installed and what am i to expect when i ask the poor soul to install it for me.

Not to be a dik or anything but...


If your not able to put it on yourself...you probably shouldn't have one. You really need to know what your doing and whats going on with your motor. They are nothing to play around with if you know little if anything about them.

Just my .02

[mr_eh]

^ i was gonna say that but no clue how to say it nicely

but yeah if you cant install it and tune it a LITTLE its gonna go bad, your not gonna know until your engine asplodes =P safe yourself the $ and buy some books on it first to read up on

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by phantom505

The problem with Deeks is that he had no IC (or at least I didn't see one). More than the tuning, more than the manifolds, more than everything else. You can't put 250*F air into an engine and expect results.

Yes, tuning would help his case.

Trust me he is intercooled, he had a pretty lil front mount (half the size of what mine is going to be) sitting there keeping the air under some reasonable temperature. He just was too cheap to get to a dyno to tune. There's one only 20 minutes from his house too.

[Apollyon9515]

Why does he not post as much?(deek) and did he ever sell his car

[Pacman]

i agree with phantom. if it's compressed, it better be cooled. i won't ever have boost w/o an ic ever again

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by Apollyon9515

Why does he not post as much?(deek) and did he ever sell his car

He doesn't post much because he doesn't know how to handle criticism from you guys. He gets butthurt easily. He also doesn't know how to find a reputable person to build him a decent tranny, which means he doesn't listen to well founded advice on here, mine included.

I don't know if he sold his car or not I don't talk to him much in the first place. He bought a second gen DSM I believe. I don't know why he picked up such a car. He can barely keep a grand am on the road, *this reference can easily be put on me by the way*. But he "wants to be fast" so he said bye bye to the grand am for a lofty $12g's or something. Tell you one thing, even w/ everything mint looking, it's worth less than $5000 in my book..