Transmission Problems.....any ideas?

[Brken123]

OK try this one out....now mind you this is still pending with a dealership because they haven't fixed it yet....but anyway my car seems like it won't stay in overdrive. As in if you cruise steady at 60 mph and are steady on the gas....ie not causing the car to accelerate or decelerate....and your on a level surface.....it jumps or "gear hunts" between 4th gear and over-drive. The tach is usually around 1800 rpms in over-drive at this speed, and for no reason it jumps between 1800 and 2300 (4th gear).

It gets better.....once your on the highway crusing....regardless of speed....and set the cruise control....the little "cruise" light comes on over the tach....and the car drives for about 15 seconds....and for no reason the cruise kicks off....this usually happens as it does the "jump out of over-drive and back into 4th gear" thing I described above.

Now I took it to 3 different dealers for this.....first dealership said nothing was wrong with it....it's normal for it to do that. (Based on that, I haven't been there since)....next dealership told me my ignition coils were bad, my injectors and throttle body needed cleaning, and that i needed new spark plug wires. Now because I don't know much about these transmissions other then the fact that they are computer controlled, I put faith in what the dealer told me and paid the money. Got the car back, after they had the damn thing all day, and it still has the same problem....mind you it cost me 600 bucks so far. (Have extended warranty, but according to the mickey mouse company they are....this kind of stuff isn't covered.....ignition coils are, but the labor to put them in isn't???) Anyway be forwarned....if you have cost gaurd as an extended warranty, watch your wallet going to the dealer.

So I took it to yet another dealer, just to get another opinion. Still fighting with the second dealer to get them to fix it, since they basically threw parts at it trying to solve the problem....found this out after I talked to the "trans tech" at that dealer today....he claimed he couldn't get the car to duplicate the problem....to which i said well if you couldn't duplicate it, why in the hell did I pay 600 bucks for you to do whatever you did, when you knew damn right well it wasn't going to fix the problem? (Like i said there's a long story with this...and I'll let you know how it turns out) Anyway the guy at the 3rd dealership told me it could be a few things....he said it could be a torque converter problem, a brake switch problem (aparently our brake system is tied into the tranny...and when it starts to go it causes the tranny to do all kinds of neat things) or it could be the bands in the tranny itself. (Bands are what hold the car in certian gears. <---Basic explanation...it's actually alot more complicated then that, but don't feel like going into details)

Now after all was said and done, this third guy (who seemed to know what he was talking about) even went out of his way to find out if this kind of thing is covered under warranty...mind you this was the mechanic....not the service guy you deal with at the counter....and come to find out that to get this fixed shouldn't cost me a dime. So you can imagine how ****ed I am at the second dealership...

Finally our cars have what's called an "adaptive" tranny....meaning that the computer constantly changes the way it shifts, depending on how the car is driven. I figured ok....unhook the battery...reset the computer....(because from doing this in the past i've noticed it ran different right after I unhooked the battery)....so I did this....and after being ****ed that I had to reprogram my stations and my equalizer for the stereo system, I drove the car around. Shifting problem is still there even though it drives completely different now.....so I'm kinda confused as to what to think is going on with it....like I said i'm still dealing with the second dealer to get them to fix it and also give me back my money for parts that I didn't need in the first place......

All in all once I get this settled (goes back in the shop on Dec 2nd....that was the next "appointment" they had available") I'll let you know what they supposedly think it was, what they did, and weither or not it fixed the problem. Hope this helps everyone out and also gives them the ability to know when the dealer is bull****ting you......wish me luck as far as Dec 2nd goes....cause if it's not right after that, my lawyer and I are going back to the dealer....(yep already called him)......

[eren00gt]

I had the EXACT same problem last year. I went to 3 different dealerships before I got it to duplicate the problem for a tech. First he thought it was the solenoid and that didn't work so then he threw a new torque converter in it. And they sent me on my way saying they thought they fixed it. I got on the highway and nope, still the same problem. So then the trans. tech replaces the brake light switch and that solved it, but only temporarily. So after they replace it again it goes bad again. Then they give my car to the tech who diagnoses electrical problems and he finds that the other brake light switch is bad and is shorting out the other switch causing the torque converter to engage and disengage.

Apparently there are 2 brake light switches, I'm not sure which does what, but it caused the same exact problem you have. So tell the dealership to not waste time and money on the converter but to check both brake light switches.

When I took mine to the 3rd dealership and they started working on it I ran out of time on my factory warranty so I had to keep going back there, even though I didn't want to, for them to resolve the problem.

Good luck

And if I were you, don't wait until Dec. 2, go back as soon as you can and tell them to just check both brake light switches. It should be easy enough for one of them to just crawl under the dash and check it out.

[Rba007]

What the heck is a brake light switch, and how does it effect the tranny?

(Also, how long did the repair run?)

[eren00gt]

The brake light switch is exactly what it says. When you step on the brakes it turns on the brake lights, but it also disengages the cruise when on. It also will disengage the lock-up torque converter.

[Rba007]

Hmmmm. Any idea where about that is located? I have a different transmission than you, but its likely similar.

[eren00gt]

Originally Posted by Rba007

Hmmmm. Any idea where about that is located? I have a different transmission than you, but its likely similar.

It is under the dash and is part of the brake pedal system. I never did get to see it but I know that is where it is located.

[Rba007]

Slick, Ill check that out this weekend. Thanks.

[eren00gt]

Are you having the same problem as Brken123?

[Rba007]

Not sure really, seems to be similar issues.

I made another thread about my problem (about the 5th one over the course of a year or so), but really dont get any replies.

What im having , is when I am in top gear, and the car is warm, when i put a light load on the engine (very little accel) it vibrates. As if the torque converter (which i dont know much about) is trying to lock up and its not happening. Someone long ago stated it may be the "torque converter lockup selenoid", But id really like to know how much that part costs, and how difficult it is to install. Not too many folks here know the 4t40E though. I certainly dont...

[Brken123]

From what I've heard and what the dealer guy told me, the selenoid is $400, and as for install, I didn't even ask. When it comes to the tranny I don't touch it because so much of it is tied into the computer. And as for the brake light switch, I've heard that from other people. (other mechanics) Honestly...I'm not going to say anything to the dealer. I'll let them rebuild the whole car if they want if that's what it takes to get them to fix it. The moment I walk in and say, "I've heard it could be a brake light switch. You mind checking that?" It gives the mechanic a way out.....he'll just replace the switch and send me on my way, regardless of weither or not it was that...that was indeed causing the problem. I'll let them replace the torque converter, even rebuild the tranny....I'm not saying a word, and I'll be damned if I'm paying for any of the work. You charge me 600 bucks to fix something that isn't broken, and then don't wanna admit that you screwed up or refund me my money, I tend to turn into an *******. So at this point it's "horray for me and the hell with the dealer". Now normally I'm not so ignorant, but don't rip me off and then lie to me about it. Ya feel me?

[robry]

right on brken123, I hope you get it fixed, sounds to me like it could be your brake light switchs. My old GA did that, it was a 96 2.4L auto. Would constantly go between lockup and 4th gear. I never did anything about it though. Also, with the brake light switch, someone asked why it would effect the tranny. Basically when your torque converter is locked up, its like letting the clutch the entire way out in a manual. It 'locks' together solid, to provide and 1 to 1 ratio for the tranny. If you slammed on your brakes really fast, it could/would cause the engine to stall, hence why it unlocks. Many times on older cars, I've noticed on 2.8 v6s and some 3.1s from different friends that own them. If you jab the brakes or stop real fast, it stalls out because the converter solinoid gets stuck or sticks. I've have sometimes been in 3rd gear around my town (which is somewhat hilly) and following someone at 30-35mph, and sometimes the car will go into lockup. You can simply tap the brake pedal just a small amount, and it will unlock the converter, keeping the car in gear. Which is nice when flowing some granny up a hill. Anyhow, good luck brken123

[Rba007]

Hmmmm. Ill play around with tapping the breaks tomorrow, as i still stay on the accelerator a bit (to create the shake) and see if it has any effect. Im realllllyyyy hoping this is the problem! Got to be easier to fix than a transmission problem. Especially glad that another person with the 2.4 auto chimed in with a similar problem. Noooww, does anyone have a clue how to swap out this brake light swich? Ill make a post requesting the part number in that section on the site.

[eren00gt]

Originally Posted by Rba007

Hmmmm. Ill play around with tapping the breaks tomorrow, as i still stay on the accelerator a bit (to create the shake) and see if it has any effect. Im realllllyyyy hoping this is the problem! Got to be easier to fix than a transmission problem. Especially glad that another person with the 2.4 auto chimed in with a similar problem. Noooww, does anyone have a clue how to swap out this brake light swich? Ill make a post requesting the part number in that section on the site.

Assuming you have cruise control, does it kick off by itself whe you turn it on? If you are having probs with the brake light switch it will likely do that as it did on mine and brken123's ga. Try running cruise and see what happens.

[Brken123]

I hate to say this, but I'm glad someone else has had the same problem I have. After getting it checked out the first time just to be told, oh that's normal don't worry about it...I thought i was nuts or something. I'm so glad this site exists.....

[Rba007]

My car came with cruise control, but i had to remove it when I installed a new intake manifold (the throttle cable wasnt long enough to reach my new TB location) so thats a test I cant do. I will check on the brake thing this evening though when i have to make a highway trip.

[DarkKnight]

To me, this sounds exactly like a failing brake switch. It's the only part common to all the symptoms that you mentioned. It will cause the cruise to kick off, and the T/C to unlock. The shake that you feel is probably the T/C locking and unlocking rapidly as the switch opens and closes. I bet if you had someone ride behind you on the highway, they might see your brake lights flicker on and off. The brake switch should be along the shaft of the brake pedal. It could be failing for a number of reasons, including a short in the lighting system.

FYI, the transimission isn't tied into the computer so much as you might think. It's true that the computer controls the transmission, but it's by means of four solenoids (they're like switches, but for fluid) inside the trans to tell it what gear to be in, how hard to shift, and to lock and unlock the T/C. All of the complexity of the system is in the computer, not the transmission. The operation of the transmission is essentially the same, with the difference being that it's controlled by switches rather than a complicated system of spring loaded weights. The computer basically looks at how fast you are going, and how much the pedal is pressed down, then based on that it turns a couple of the switches on or off and puts the trans in whatever gear. I guess it would seem really complex if you hadn't studied the system. The point is, what's happening to your car would happen whether or not the trans was shifted by the computer.

[Brken123]

Dark....good to know....Thanks bro!

[Rba007]

Anyone have any idea of a Part number or difficulty of install of this thing? Id love to pick one up, but my local dealer usually runs about 5 times (not exagerating) what gmpartsdirect does on parts like this.

[Brken123]

I'll second that.....i mean come on....600 bucks for ignition coils, spark plug wires, and having the fuel injectors and throttle body cleaned?

[Brken123]

Well I know this thread is getting old, but just an update for those of you out there that have or are having this problem.....took it back to hell....oh I mean the dealership today....dropped it off at 8 am......didn't hear anything from them all day, so took a ride up there around 4 pm (considering they close at 5) to find out what the deal was. Tried calling them, but kept getting the service departments voicemail.....
Anyway I get there and find out that they couldn't get my car on the lift because aparently the car they had in there before mine had all sorts of problems and they couldn't get it back together....blah blah blah......but anyway after arguing with the service guy for about 15 min, I found out that the tech took it for a ride, and felt exactly what it is doing. He claims they have to drop the pan of the tranny to look for metal shavings or to see if something internal has gone bad.....didn't mention anything about the brake switch. Then he said if they don't find anything internally, they'll check the computer (since the tranny is computer controlled) and try to see if that is doing something that it's not supposed too. Now if you read my first post on this page, you'll know what i'm going through as far as how much this has cost me so far. So I told the guy.....before you do any work....this isn't going to cost me a dime, correct? He said well all your looking at so far is a $75 diagnostic charge.....to which i said....no...i'm not paying that. You people charged me all this money, and then on top of that it's still broke, I bring it in here today in good faith just to find out that it won't be worked on until tomorrow (which means now I have to go to my boss and try to manipulate my work schedule....so I can get out of work to be able to go there and pick it up before 5 pm....if they fix it) and now you want to try to charge me for this? He's like .... we'll let us find out what's going on first, and then we'll see what's going on with your warranty and then the price and all that......i said no....the only thing you'll see is a work order with a zero balance at the bottom.....and if that's something you can't deliver...quit wasting my time and give me the name of a manager who can make that happen.....and at this point I think he realized I wasn't playing around.....now mind you I didn't get all irate and cause a huge scene or anything like that....I just said the above in a very firm voice.....but anyway he also said he's gonna have to call the insurance company (who my extended warranty is through) and see what they are going to cover........

More updates on that tomorrow.....

Anyone out there with any suggestions as to what I should do? I mean all due respect, i think this is total bull****, but I'm not sure if there is anything I can do to avoid any future bills or hassle from this.....anyone know of a number i can call or anything?

Also....anyone here by a used grand am and get the extended warranty through a company called Cost Gaurd? Are they a mickey mouse company or what? I mean as stated in the first post, the ignition coils were supposedly bad.....which is a part that the rep from cost gaurd said was covered....however the labor to put them in wasn't? This was almost 3 weeks ago now, and I still haven't seen a check for re-imbursement.....aparently you have to pay out of pocket and then they re-imburse you.......yet any time I've taken the car to the original dealer i bought it from, any work done under warranty hasn't cost me a dime....regardless of parts or labor......anyone have any ideas or had any problems with this company????