GM to build fleet of hydrogen powered cars

[95-GT]

GM in fuel cell deal with government

Auto manufacturer says it has inked $88M pact to build fleet of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles by 2009.


DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp. Wednesday said it signed an $88 million deal with the Department of Energy to build a fleet of 40 hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and further develop the technology.

Under the five-year program, the world's largest auto manufacturer will spend $44 million to deploy fuel cell demonstration vehicles in Washington D.C., New York, California and Michigan.

The Department of Energy will contribute the other half of the program's investment under an agreement that expires in September 2009.

In a separate commercial agreement, Shell Hydrogen LLC will support GM by setting up five hydrogen refueling stations in Washington, D.C.; New York City; between Washington D.C. and New York; and in California.

Other program partners include the Army at Fort Belvoir, Va., and Quantum Technologies in Lake Forest, Calif. Both will provide facilities for GM to store and maintain fuel cell vehicles.

GM said it is also collaborating with the Department of Defense and would release news on that relationship later in the week.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/30/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

[onesexyga]

Csaba Csere's article in the new C&D-

"Using fossil fuel to produce hydrogen for vehicles produces as much pollution as burning gasoline."

Hydrogen must be stored a 423 degrees below 0.

96% of the worlds hydrogen comes from fossil fuel plants.

"That's why, in realistic near-term discussions about energy conservation, hybrids and deisels rule the roost."

[Panacea]

Does it really? So, in essence, 96% of our water comes from fossil fuel plants as well?

[EBlend]

man, hydrogen is definately dangerous and poluting substance, haven't you guys heard of

dihydrogen monoxide!

check out all the stats here! http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

this stuff is deadly! and there is so much in the world is amazing that we are all still alive!

[EBlend]

Originally Posted by Panacea

Does it really? So, in essence, 96% of our water comes from fossil fuel plants as well?

chances are, 96% of our poputed water comes from there haha, whoever said that producing hydrogen couses so much polution isn't well

[Kitt]

instead of Hydrogen powered vehicles which is single bonded i would think Nitrogen power would have more potential power since its triple bonded. I forget gas' bonded structure but IIRC its potentially stronger than hydrogen.

Then again i could be wrong....

[playerx4]

I think instead of hydrogen fuel, gm should look into developing a motor that runs off 100% biodiesel. Right now diesel engines can run on 25% or 20% (not sure) mix of bio oil to fossil fuel diesel. Right now for a diesel engine to run of 100% bio oil it needs two tanks, one of diesel (diesel needed to start the engine and needs to be used before you turn off the engine), and the other for bio diesel. If gm can make a engine that can start up and run with biodiesel that would be the way to go.

[onesexyga]

Originally Posted by EBlend

chances are, 96% of our poputed water comes from there haha, whoever said that producing hydrogen couses so much polution isn't well

Was this directed at me? Im not even sure what your saying. Im not saying that fossil fuel plants produce water. Im saying they produce hydrogen.

[Panacea]

Fact of the matter is, Hydrogen is plentiful. It is almost an indefinate source of energy.

Why do fossil fuel plants have anything to do with the equation? Why is fossil fuel required to cool the substance down? Is it because fossil fuel plants are required to produce electricity in order to power gigantic refridgerators to cool the hydrogen down? If that's the case, why can't they use Nuclear power? I would say, depending on where your city gets it's power from, it could be produced from many different sources.

This is also coming from C&D, who are known for being very biased. I would say they're focking ignorant as hell and are just worried that their precious 1963 sports car may never run again becasue it can't be run on hydrogen.

I will say I am ignorant on the subject, but I think they are blowing this way out of proportion. They are the media...

[onesexyga]

Hydrogen is the tenth most common element on Earth, but pure hydrogen gas rarely occurs in nature. Unlike most other fuels, hydrogen cannot be produced directly by digging a mine or drilling a well. It must be extracted chemically from hydrogen-rich materials such as natural gas, water, coal, or plant matter. Due to the lack of an apparent supply of pure hydrogen, it must be obtained in another fashion. There are five different processes that perform the necessary extraction: steam reforming, off-gas clean up, photo-processes, electrolysis, and hydrolysis.

http://www.saintmarys.edu/~rtarara/E...T/Hydrogen.htm

[Panacea]

"The use of hydrogen will reduce the amount of fossil fuels thus reducing the amount of greenhouse emissions."

From the same article, Kevin, thanks.

[tomh]

i just say that they need to do something other then use this stupid gas!! cost me $29.00 for 13.some gallons today. I would love to have a car that used hydrogen, i see nothing wrong with using it.

[videoman]

Use a enviromentally friendly method of producing energy for those plant that produce the hydrogen and voila! Example:

Windfarm/Solar---> Hydrogen from water---> into the fuel cell vehicle to produce steam and oxygen

PS: a hydrogen vehicle doesn't neccessarely mean fuel cell...several Manufacturers are making a similar combustion engine that after the reaction produces oxygen. ( BMW has one that is 10 cylinder with over 220HP)

[bigbenSC]

Originally Posted by tomh

i just say that they need to do something other then use this stupid gas!! cost me $29.00 for 13.some gallons today. I would love to have a car that used hydrogen, i see nothing wrong with using it.

There is no proof that hydrogen can be made cheaper than gas. The main reason is because fossil fuel is running out and hydrogen is much cleaner by itself. The current ways to produce hydrogen are not all that clean themselves.

[playerx4]

Originally Posted by tomh

i just say that they need to do something other then use this stupid gas!! cost me $29.00 for 13.some gallons today. I would love to have a car that used hydrogen, i see nothing wrong with using it.

I feel ya on the gas but like bigben said it might not be the cheaper alternative. You'd also be sitting on a potential bomb.

[Panacea]

It's not cheaper right now, but it hasn't been fully developed. Look how much a computer cost 10-15 years ago and how big and inefficient they were. Look at them now...

We won't know until they come out with cheaper ways to produce it. It takes time. The initial cost is going to be huge, but in time it will all work out.

[onesexyga]

"96% of the worlds hydrogen comes from fossil fuel plants."

Learn to read here people. The link I posted proves my point that it can be produced more efficiently, but currently it is not. Note the nice subheadings of proccesses. We have yet to employ this. IMO the big step will be better production methods coming into play.

Granted C&D is not 100% accurate. "the overall efficiency is typically only about 65 percent." Those are still bad looking numbers tho.

My car runs on tap water I just flush the tank and refill it every 3 months, GM should follow my lead.

[EBlend]

hey onesexyga, no sorry i ment to quote Panacea on the fact the statement he said with 96% water thing. my bad

and by saying "whoever said that isn't well" i was talking about the person who wrote that article

[onesexyga]

Oh, okay. [scratches name off of wall under people to kill] Just kidding.