If you EVER needed help with your GA.. now would be the time that I REALLY NEED IT!!

Hi everyone,

Get ready for a long long read.. but please if you're experienced with the Grand AM's engine, I please ask that you read it all to understand the whole story of whats happening and please offer me your advice.. I would seriously appreciate it more than anyone can even imagine and if you want to summarize it for cliffs - please do aswell to make it easier for someone to read and not go through it all.. here it is:

My 1999 Pontiac Grand AM SE 3.4 liter V6 cars engine currently does not turn on.. I had the LIM gasket with the whole coolant mixed with the oil that turned into a milky substance after my car had overheated, I had my EX MECHANIC fix the problems that always serviced my car for 2 years during the time that I've owned the car.. then when the car overheated and we figured out the car needed the new LIM gaskets and coolant flush, etc.. that is when he performed the job for me. He said that others would charge about $1200 to $1400 at the auto repair shops and he works for Pep Boys for 10 years now and he would do the work for me as a an outside thing.. he said he would charge me $700 to do the job.. I accepted. Car got fixed and problem repaired.. though a couple of times I had some minor problems He said that the car needed a new water pump and he said he'd replace it free of charge. He is no longer my mechanic because after talking to other mechanics that have their own mobile automotive business, they would tell me that the mechanic whos serviced me ripped me off that the job that was done wasn't something that should cost this much.. I got this advice from 3 different mechanics now. I called my ex mechanic and he would not reimburse me nor budge for anything and told me he does not want to deal with me again.. anyhow, ever since then.. everything has been good with the car UNTIL..

( ^^ To read what I went through with full info of the EX mechanic from above of the LIM gasket.. here is the thread to read whenever you'd like if you want to get more of the jist even though I'm pretty much saying the whole thing here: HELP!! Coolant leak problem turns into something MAJOR!! NOT good! Need help PLEASE ^^ )


Now, 3 months LATER and 1,865 miles of little driving - My car started giving me problems when I've been driving.. I would notice the car seems to hesitate like its ABOUT to shut off and sometimes when I would turn the wheel all the way on both directions, the car WOULD shut off....

Anyhow, evetually I thought it was my battery that was going bad so I went and replaced it with a good quality expensive $100 battery with a real nice replacement warranty on it. I got brand new terminal tips and cut the old ends of the wires that were corrosided and fix that and attached it to the new battery.. got new bolts and tighted it up.. all good? I started the car.. yeah, guess what? Same problem.. car would last alittle longer now and not shut off when I would turn the wheel all the way but now it would shut off on me if it would stay on for more than say 10 minutes.. so I had it towed over to Firestone.. the guys checked it out and FOUND OUT some news that I've noticed for awhile that I've been experiencing this problem myself.. I realized my gas milage has been terrible, I'm getting like 200 miles per tank.. around 190 miles my fuel light pops on.. so I had my new mechanic put in what I believe is a NEW fuel pressure regulator, though the one I received from GMPartsDirect.com DOES NOT look new but looked to be in better condition then mine but not new at all...

I decided to go ahead and have it installed along with a brand new belt because my old one was sqeeling abit from 3 months ago when I had the LIM gaskets replaced from coolant falling on the belt.. so anyhow, you think everything is fixed and there should BE NO WAY that I should have problems after putting all this money into my "baby"....? YOU'RE WRONG!!!

Finally, the job was done and I turned on the car.. everything turned on great and the car actually lasted so much more longer than usual HOWEVER I did feel that same hesitation again like the car would die but it would just keep on going.. evetually, I got to a family members place and when I went to go home later and turn the car on - that is when the car would not start.. I had it towed back home and my new mechanic came by who installed the fuel pressure regulator and belt.. he is ASE certified and warranties his work.. anyway, he got the car to turn over a couple of times but it would make this really bad grunking noise and then if you didn't keep pressing the gas - it would just SHUT OFF.. this is how its been.. the starter seems to work fine and gives enough juice.. other than that, no luck.

Someone who has been on top of all the maintance like myself with this car only to continue having problems like this.. I really honestly don't know how to feel but feel cheated, confused, and most of all violated that all this money has gone in and the car is in fantastic condition to end up having this type of engine problems. My new mechanic can't quite figure out the problem.. he suggest that after having the LIM gasket problem, that I should just replace the engine but that is way to costly and I'm just giving up with this car that I just want to sell it.. but I don't think I can get anywhere near what its worth now that it won't even start.. can SOMEONE please offer advice? after putting all this money to get it going again I REALLY want to keep my car and use it and now that the fuel pressure regulator is installed - I WANT to see the great differences with gas milage!! NOW, I feel like I've been let down. The car has only 79.045 miles... and its a 1999 Pontiac Grand AM SE.. with less than 12K miles a year driving.. and handled with care, how can I have this much problems? What would you recommend can be a fix?

The mechanic says he suggest that I get in touch with the ex mechanic and tell him the problems but I know that guy doesn't want to hear me complaining again about my car and after ripping me off $700.. my current merchanic says that the ex one ripped me off because he would've only charged me $200 for the work that was done from what he could see and what I described of what was what I think was done.. he did notice the LIM gaskets indeed replaced and mentioned that the work done of parts would be no more than $90 and the rest would be labor which would make the WHOLE total $200.. anyhow, I doubt my ex mechanic that I thought would never do me wrong won't budge to refund some of it.. if anything, the current mechanic says that the NEW WATER PUMP installed was a lie.. he said it was sillocone type substance to hold a small leak.. I feel cheated and lied to.. but most of all, I'm now starting to wonder if my car is a LEMON.. does this sound possible? Can I do anything? Any warranty left for the car being under 80K? I bought it used though.. so I don't know if thats still valid. Also, we had the ODO reader hooked up.. the car shows no known symptoms and the check engine light does NOT go on.. everything electrical wise works great.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

[atc3434]

Clunking and grinding. My bet is you did lots of damage internally to the motor when you had the first LIM gasket go bad. Coolant in the oil creates engine damage really fast. You overheated it, you had the milky oil, I bet thats when you hurt it, and its never been right since. Get a mechanic that really knows whats going on with it to tell you wants up, and what it'll cost to fix. I suppose you can blame the LIM leak, but not keeping tabs on a car thats known for that one problem... well, the jury is out on that one.

[coupe]

Well a LIM leak can run about $500-$900 depending on your area. $200 is WAY cheap and tells me this new mechanic isnt all that confident either. Where it all went wrong was when you didnt get more than 1 quote. My rule is call minimum of 3 places and get prices.

Originally Posted by coupe

Well a LIM leak can run about $500-$900 depending on your area. $200 is WAY cheap and tells me this new mechanic isnt all that confident either. Where it all went wrong was when you didnt get more than 1 quote. My rule is call minimum of 3 places and get prices.

I know its alot to read but you didn't read the book I basically posted above. I paid $700 for the LIM gasket and coolant flush, oil change and filter, other misc things for that price with my ex mechanic. The new mechanic said he would've done the same job for $200 because hes one of these mechanics that are sick of people getting ripped off by big auto repair companies charging an arm and a leg to get work done on a car that doesn't exactly take as LONG as they put it out to be..

Anyhow, he wasn't the only guy I got a quote from.. when I had the LIM situation repaired.. I had taken it to Tire Kingdom which you can read all about in the other thread I linked in my original post and then I posted that thread on here to get all of your advice which was just fantastic and then decided it was right to go with my ex mechanic to do the job since people like yourself said it cost between $500 and $900, and I was getting charged right in the middle at $700 with the ex mechanic that took care of me for 2 years.

Now I'm worst off 3 months later with the car working just dandy and then out of no where these problems arise again and MORE money was put into it to fix what could've been the problems only to realize I just spent money on good parts for no reason. Wonderful..

[badboy2451]

lemon = returned to dealership 3 times to have the same part serviced

What do you guys recommend I do.. do you think if I got in touch with my EX Mechanic.. and explain to him what happened, that he'd help me in anyway? I just don't know anymore and I'm just at the verge of taking this car to a dealer and trade it in for a brand new car and pay the difference.. which I doubt I'd get anywhere near what I expected now that car won't even run.. or how about parting the WHOLE thing out? Whats an estimate I can probably make once that time consuming process is done?

[coupe]

Originally Posted by GRocks10

I know its alot to read but you didn't read the book I basically posted above. I paid $700 for the LIM gasket and coolant flush, oil change and filter, other misc things for that price with my ex mechanic. The new mechanic said he would've done the same job for $200 because hes one of these mechanics that are sick of people getting ripped off by big auto repair companies charging an arm and a leg to get work done on a car that doesn't exactly take as LONG as they put it out to be..

Anyhow, he wasn't the only guy I got a quote from.. when I had the LIM situation repaired.. I had taken it to Tire Kingdom which you can read all about in the other thread I linked in my original post and then I posted that thread on here to get all of your advice which was just fantastic and then decided it was right to go with my ex mechanic to do the job since people like yourself said it cost between $500 and $900, and I was getting charged right in the middle at $700 with the ex mechanic that took care of me for 2 years.

Now I'm worst off 3 months later with the car working just dandy and then out of no where these problems arise again and MORE money was put into it to fix what could've been the problems only to realize I just spent money on good parts for no reason. Wonderful..

Yes i know. I paid $780 for my LIM. That included a tranny flush...well....2 of them. A LIM is an all day task. Sure its easy but is labor intensive. Another problem is you shouldnt take your car in for a LIM leak repair to a shop who's name is Tire Kingdom, i would have to assume they spcialize in tires. I got 3 quotes for mine from 3 shops that specialize in engine repair. What happened is your ex mechanic didnt know what he was doing. If you could get it done at another shop and get a warranty at the same price on the work why didnt you? You had a guy do it as a side job who works for pep boys therefore you get no warranty or anything to guarantee the work. Ya dun focked up.

[coupe]

Originally Posted by badboy2451

lemon = returned to dealership 3 times to have the same part serviced

I dont believe thats the case here.

[coupe]

I just read your other thread.
You fried your motor, plain and simple. Dude that coolant light had to come on for quite awhile before you where totaly out of coolant.

[02andahalfgt]

Originally Posted by atc3434

Clunking and grinding. My bet is you did lots of damage internally to the motor when you had the first LIM gasket go bad. Coolant in the oil creates engine damage really fast. You overheated it, you had the milky oil, I bet thats when you hurt it, and its never been right since. Get a mechanic that really knows whats going on with it to tell you wants up, and what it'll cost to fix. I suppose you can blame the LIM leak, but not keeping tabs on a car thats known for that one problem... well, the jury is out on that one.

You have your answer right here, and also what Rand added. No need to contact the other mechanic, you did serious damage by driving it with the coolant/oil sludge c0cktail. End of (long) story.

Originally Posted by coupe

Yes i know. I paid $780 for my LIM. That included a tranny flush...well....2 of them. A LIM is an all day task. Sure its easy but is labor intensive. Another problem is you shouldnt take your car in for a LIM leak repair to a shop who's name is Tire Kingdom, i would have to assume they spcialize in tires. I got 3 quotes for mine from 3 shops that specialize in engine repair. What happened is your ex mechanic didnt know what he was doing. If you could get it done at another shop and get a warranty at the same price on the work why didnt you? You had a guy do it as a side job who works for pep boys therefore you get no warranty or anything to guarantee the work. Ya dun focked up.

The quote I got from Tire Kingdom was almost $2500 for the LIM repair and I listed everything the manager there wanted to charge me in that other thread.. I still have the estimate of those charges which was pure BS.. the ex mechanic of mine did the job for the LIM repair after I got the estimate from Tire Kingdom and got everyones input in that other thread.. THEN, I had my ex mechanic do the job when I got the OK from all of you that I was getting a fair deal with my guy.. the car was running great once it was fixed except for needing a new water pump which I found out wasn't replaced but used a silicone type substance and its been running great ever since! This is been a good 3 months now that my car has been running with no problems.. its just as of recently when my car was having problems starting with an older battery and corrosided battery terminals attached.. figured that would fix the prob, got it replaced along with a new battery and nothing.. then had it checked out when it started hesitiating.. found out that my Fuel Pressure Regulator was leaking oil and figured that could def be the reason why it had problems starting correctly.. you could smell the fuel when you would start the car and see the fuel leak out of the fuel pressure regulator.. took it to Firestone and the mechanics there recommended a new fuel pressure regulator.. my current mechanic is the guy that works at Firestone.. that didn't fix the problem and you know what? The car was atleast running before he fixed it but would shut off after say 10 min.. now after getting the new fuel pressure regulator.. it turned on fine after being just installed and when I got to my destination which was about a 15 minute ride.. shut off the car and turned it on again 30 minutes later.. and thats when I've had problems ever since.

Just for everyones info.. the LIM HAS BEEN REPAIRED. Could this be so soon that its related to my problem and if so, do you recommend I talk to my ex mechanic about it? If anything, if he has a heart and realizes he took $700 from me just 3 months ago and now the car doesn't work.. I basically paid $233 per month to drive a car that I ALREADY OWN plus insurance payments! Money doesn't grow out of trees ya know! This guy owes to make it right atleast if anything I say.. what to do!?

I just want my car running fine again.. its only been driven 1865 miles in 3 months!!

Originally Posted by 02andahalfgt

You have your answer right here, and also what Rand added. No need to contact the other mechanic, you did serious damage by driving it with the coolant/oil sludge c0cktail. End of (long) story.

The other mechanic that you mention makes it sound as if I never got the job done and I continued driving the car the whole time.. actually, the car was fixed when it overheated by my "other mechanic aka the EX mechanic".. he fixed the car $700 later.. car has been great ever since - problem with car just started now 3 months later out of the blue and you would've never expected any of this.. I STILL don't think this has to do with the LIM..

Could it be possible when the new mechanic installed my fuel pressure regulator, is it possible that he didn't do a good job installing it and didn't put a plug of some sort back in the right place and this could be why the car won't turn over? Atleast it did and stayed running before he fixed it but it hesitated abit - thats why I got the fuel pressure regulator fixed after realizing that it was leaking fuel.

Btw.. the ex mechanic who did my LIM repair job has worked for Pep Boys for 10 years. If anything, he was the one who always serviced my car throughout two years and did nothing but great work.. its now a surprisement three months later having these problems after only driving 1865 miles.. its very odd.

[02andahalfgt]

By the way your story sounds you still drove it at least some time with coolant in the oil, potentially doing serious harm to the internals of the engine. Regardless of when it was fixed or by who.
But if you're so worried, your best bet at this point would be to take it to (I hate to say this..) a dealership, have it looked at by an actual GM certified mechanic. You don't have to have them do any work on it, just tell you what the problem is.

[LukeD]

Looking at the story a few times I think it actually may not be engine damage. If he did serious engine damage with coolent and oil, that car NEVER would have been the same. In his case it was fixed for 3 months with no problems. Hesitation could have to do with clogged injectors or some fuel related issue. Go to the dealership or repair place or somewhere where they can do a test and maybe clean of the fuel delivery.

Also I don't think your ex-mechanic ripped you off, if he knew what he was doing and repaired the LIM gaskets correctly. The guy saying that he would have done it for $200 either does not know what is involved or he is VERY VERY good friends with you.

Originally Posted by LukeD

Looking at the story a few times I think it actually may not be engine damage. If he did serious engine damage with coolent and oil, that car NEVER would have been the same. In his case it was fixed for 3 months with no problems. Hesitation could have to do with clogged injectors or some fuel related issue. Go to the dealership or repair place or somewhere where they can do a test and maybe clean of the fuel delivery.

Also I don't think your ex-mechanic ripped you off, if he knew what he was doing and repaired the LIM gaskets correctly. The guy saying that he would have done it for $200 either does not know what is involved or he is VERY VERY good friends with you.

This is the only REAL reply that I have read through that I can actually say that I believe has to do with what I am currently going through.. I already went through the whole LIM ordeal and many many of you have gone through the same thing and fixed your cars between what I ended up paying abit higher or abit lower but either way, you got the job fixed and now what you expect is a good running vehicle.. I honestly believe that in this situation it does not have to do with the LIM.. my coolant is still infact there and nothing is leaking from those areas or would give question that its that right now.. if anything, I believe this has to do with the fuel delivery and I think it can be what I believe is called the CATs that are clogged ( is this right? ) and I believe I read on the owners manual that this is warrantied under GM till 80K miles.. which I haven't hit yet, knock on wood.. I'm at 79.045!.. I mean, the fuel pressure regulator was leaking for goodness sakes and that was fixed.. maybe that screwed something up that needs more fixing.. if anything, I believe I as much as I don't want to.. will take it to a Pontiac Dealership and have them look at it.. what would you guys estimate that to cost and also, do I give them the background of work thats already been done or just tell them what is currently happening with having replaced the fuel pressure regulator, belt replaced, new battery and terminals? And telling them how the car is currently running? Thanks again!

[mcgrady]

First off, any tech that uses the term "ripped off" in reference to another tech is not trustworthy himself.

This "tech" that quoted you $200 for the LIM job is a person to stay away from. He's obviously not done one of these before.

Has your tech hooked up a fuel pressure guage and monitored the fuel pressure at all since the car quit?

I'd say either the cranshaft bearings caved after being ruined by the coolant in the engine oil from the sound you describe.

I had a guy come in with a Montana yesterday wondering where his coolant was going. The oil was full of it and has been for awhile. I told him to go to an engine rebuild shop and get a new engine because if we put the intake gaskets in, he's wasting his money.

Originally Posted by mcgrady

First off, any tech that uses the term "ripped off" in reference to another tech is not trustworthy himself.

This "tech" that quoted you $200 for the LIM job is a person to stay away from. He's obviously not done one of these before.

Has your tech hooked up a fuel pressure guage and monitored the fuel pressure at all since the car quit?

I'd say either the cranshaft bearings caved after being ruined by the coolant in the engine oil from the sound you describe.

I had a guy come in with a Montana yesterday wondering where his coolant was going. The oil was full of it and has been for awhile. I told him to go to an engine rebuild shop and get a new engine because if we put the intake gaskets in, he's wasting his money.

The LIM job was already done 3 months ago for $700 with my ex mechanic.. not this other tech, who said would charge me $200.. I don't believe he is experienced either with the LIM situation that its a very common problem with our Grand AMs.

Anyhow, like I said.. car has been running great with no problems alittle over 3 months now and then this happens out of the blue.. like I said, very odd. So.. I'm thinking my best bet is this has to do with fuel delivery and I'm planning to go to the GM dealership tomorrow and have them figure out what is wrong by a certified GM mechanic.. another thing, while going through this process.. SHOULD I explain that I had the LIM gaskets replaced and tell them about the TSB thats out on it? You know.. if GM never made these faulity gaskets I would never have ANY of these problems.. CAN'T they take some blame in this and cover me the work now needed to fix this? Its already enough I shelled out $700 bucks.. geez, what more do they want from an honest person just trying to keep their car in tip top shape that doesn't drive it alot!? I mean seriously...

[LukeD]

The LIM problem should have been a recall but since they didn't, they arn't going to cover anything if the car is out of warrenty. I would just take it in and describe the problem. You will pay for them to look at it but at least they have tools to properly diagnose the problem.

Like I said before. If you messed up your engine permanantly with the LIM problem, it would NEVER work right after that. Since you had several months of it working fine, it looks like an unrelated problem. Look into fuel delivery, get them to check that. I don't see why you would have to bring in the LIM gaskets, just let them run their tests.

Do I have to make an appointment? Considering I will need to have it towed there.. but I believe the truck that I ended up buying might have a towing package but not everything to hook the car up so I might look into getting kit before calling up a tow truck to have it towed.. my road side service program is scheduled to finish quite soon so if anything I really need to get this done ASAP... either way, what can I expect to pay to have them check this out? Thank you