Clearly this GM money problem is false, this is why..

[AMRAAM4]

So, last week, the week of May 15-19, my wife and I were on our honeymoon in Riviera Maya, Mexico. We stayed at a 4-star, all inclusive resort called the Paradisus Rivera. Now, Ia m sure you all don't care about that, but what we saw on Tuesday was something I found quite hilarious, but at the same time it p1ssed me off.

GM is crying the blues about money, right? They are trying to promote better products and save their ass from scrutiny by trying to avoid the truth, right? Well, as of Tuesday morning at the resort there was a giant influx of attendees rolling up in vans/buses. That night at all the restaurants at the resort, and the main bar lounge there were a ton of people with name badges on (no, not paper sticky tags, but actual plastic nameplates with their name and city/state). So, who were these people? Well, according to the big sign in the lobby and bar...

"Paradisus Riviera welcomes all GM BUSINESS ACCOUNTING WORKERS"

I was like, WTF???????? Supposedly they were there for a "conference"/"meeting"...but there were a ton of GMers I saw eating at all the restaurants, drinking, sitting by the pool, and having a nice vacation. Now tell me....what focking company that is so deep in the dogsh1t debt hole right now, has 90% of it's product looking like garbage and getting it's ass kicked by the competition, and has a rating of "junk bond" and can't get loans.......sends its business accountants to a 4-star resort in a warm cushy vacation spot!!??

[Mike3800]

First off congrats on the marrage!

Back to topic.

Lots of businesses are this poorly run. I'm not surprised in the least espcially considering it's GM. Then too, as big as they are, it's pocket change to them even if they are supposedly hurting.

[Braves299]

To a company as big as GM, I hardly doubt that something like this is even felt in their bank account... regardless if they're hurting or not.

If you worked for GM, and were sent there, I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining. haha

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Braves299

If you worked for GM, and were sent there, I'm sure you wouldn't be complaining. haha

... at least not while I was there.

Still a poor move on their part.

[Ajaxus]

Well consider for a moment that these guys at this conference go to several conferences of this sort per year. If bob can give us an average price per day per person based off of prices of food near and around the hotel as well as price per night, we could make a good guess as to how much it cost just for say 3 days (most conferences dont go longer than this) for a few hundred (what it sounds like) attendee's. Multiply that by 3-5 conferences a year of this sort around the globe, or in mexico, and I'm sure it will be a decent amount of money. If they kept them in the USA and did a conference like most smaller businesses, as I'm sure its not what they eat and where they stay that is most important to a conference, GM could probably end up saving millions each year in extra expenses that aren't needed anymore. Whew, that was a long sentence.

[AMRAAM4]

exactly.

Being in the gov't and know what a lot of travel costs are because it is done often...plus having paid for the resort myself. Judging by the cost of airfare and resort, plus an estimate of the number of attendees, I'd guess their cost was around $150,000 to $200,000

[GregFarz78]

:corporate america:

/thread

[KeyserSosa2000]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

exactly.

Being in the gov't and know what a lot of travel costs are because it is done often...plus having paid for the resort myself. Judging by the cost of airfare and resort, plus an estimate of the number of attendees, I'd guess their cost was around $150,000 to $200,000

Bob, I don't disagree that this move on GM's part is a poor one but 200,000 dollars is almost negligible, hell, even 2,000,000 dollars is nothing compared to their quarterly pension payout. The company is going bankrupt due to the fact that it has the most lucrative benefits program of any car company in the entire world. I'm not gonna let myself get going on this topic, not because I'm not interested, but solely because I would feel bad about the bandwidth. GM, as well as Ford and Chrysler made very big promises to their work force over the past 50 years, these promises include medical benefits, good pay and an amazing pension plan. Now with the influx of Japanese and Korean car manufacturers, GM cannot be competitive.

The debate about imported or domestic car supremacy could go on forever but I will limit it to say that if two cars have the exact same quality and the exact same selling price but it costs more to produce one than the other, obviously the company that produced the car for less will succeed. During my 3rd year I broke down the effect of GM's pension liabilities on the company and it was astounding. Sure treating their accountants for a 200,000 dollar event may not be the best move but I see it more as a public relations blunder than an actual funding problem.

[AMRAAM4]

my moral is:

When you're waist deep in sh1t, you figure out how to get yourself out of the sh1t.....you don't reach into your pocket and grab a hanky to wipe your sweat off, or grab a bottle of cologne to freshen yourself up with.........because even so, you're still waist deep in sh1t and going nowhere.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by GregFarz78

:corporate america:

/thread

EXACTLY

[2003SCT]

KeyerSosa2000....I totally agree. Intelligent posts on this type of subject can be few and far between so its nice and refreshing.

The issue here, though we look at this as an "american" issue/subject its really a global change thats happening. Look at China and Korea for example.....ALOT of Japanese jobs are leaving Japan..and why? Because the same labor can be done for MUCH less elsewhere. The Japanese have become notoriously cheap after the stock market crashed in the early 90s...hell even they buy from from elsewhere now to save money. Everyone gets stuff for cheaper then and thats what people look at. Thats why so many people shop at Wal Mart..because its cheap..not because its helping the economy.

As far as GMs "Employee Vacation"....things like that arent exactly helping HOWEVER as stated before it is a bit of a drop in the bucket. Hell with what employees are costing, I think you can only hire about 2 workers for a year for $200,000 after benefits It's kind of like watching government spending...they act like its a never ending river of money when really the balance books resemble sh1t creek.

CHRIS

[bigbenSC]

Corporate America is a nice place to be I guess... Meanwhile the real bones of the company, the engineers, are getting nothing. (my rant for the day)

[Mike Jung]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

..." GM BUSINESS ACCOUNTING WORKERS"

& here I thought accountants were typically tightwads.

I guess they don't have to justify their expenses, when it is their department doing it

[KeyserSosa2000]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

Corporate America is a nice place to be I guess... Meanwhile the real bones of the company, the engineers, are getting nothing. (my rant for the day)

My father is an engineer, he works for a small compay and busts his ass, when he retires he will not have a pension, has medical benefits but being in Canada medical doesn't really mean what it does in the states, and there are people who have only graduated highschool who put in 25 years at GM who will be making anywhere from $40,000 to $100,000 for the rest of their life after the age of 60.

My professor at school is one of the current VP's at Chrysler Corp. and his is in charge of their Pension Fund. The transaction costs assocated with moving the sums of money he describes are out of this world. Like what was mentioned by Chirs, it's a new world out there when it comes to the car industry, what the big three could get away with in the past is not economically sound anymore.

[Pontiac Ninja]

Originally Posted by KeyserSosa2000

My father is an engineer, he works for a small compay and busts his ass, when he retires he will not have a pension, has medical benefits but being in Canada medical doesn't really mean what it does in the states, and there are people who have only graduated highschool who put in 25 years at GM who will be making anywhere from $40,000 to $100,000 for the rest of their life after the age of 60.

That paragraph and why bob started this thread just blow my freakin mind. How on earth Gm thought they could get by with such lucritive benefits for every worker (for many years) is beyond me. But anyways, GM isn't the brightest sometimes plain and simple.

[2002GT]

bob, you should have told them what was on your mind

[TJ95GAGT]

as long as business was "discussed", I think atleast every other day, its all written off. They could have had the attendees pay thier way and the individual writes it off later. But regardless, in thier financial position they should be in at a motel6 in the outskirts of motor city, not a 4 star all inclusive resort.

OT: how was the trip bob? would you recommend that to other newlyweds?

[Ajaxus]

Originally Posted by 2002GT

bob, you should have told them what was on your mind

you know you bring up a good point, Bob how many times did you get thrown out of restaurants for tearing these GM rep's a new one?

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by 2002GT

bob, you should have told them what was on your mind

I would have liked to, but considering I am one of the youngest people in the entire Command that I work for in the Army, and deal with constant older folks in my business evryday....I knew these baby boomers (which they all were) would have no focking clue where I was coming from. I wasn't going to waste my time telling them to get bent. After all, it's not their fault either, they're just robots, doing what is told to keep their job and get their good handouts.

As for the place, I;d definitely recommend it with the caveat of planning to spend a majority of your time at the resort. So make sure it is all inclusive, at least a 4-star, and has all food and drink at any time included. We only left the resort once, on a tour, to go swim with the Dolphins. Outside the resorts the place looks like focking Iraq with Mexicans instead of Arabs.

[kse73]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

I would have liked to, but considering I am one of the youngest people in the entire Command that I work for in the Army, and deal with constant older folks in my business evryday....I knew these baby boomers (which they all were) would have no focking clue where I was coming from. I wasn't going to waste my time telling them to get bent. After all, it's not their fault either, they're just robots, doing what is told to keep their job and get their good handouts.

As for the place, I;d definitely recommend it with the caveat of planning to spend a majority of your time at the resort. So make sure it is all inclusive, at least a 4-star, and has all food and drink at any time included. We only left the resort once, on a tour, to go swim with the Dolphins. Outside the resorts the place looks like focking Iraq with Mexicans instead of Arabs.

Im goin to Eden Roc spa/resort in Miami in a couple months....I'll let you know if I see em there too.