GAGT vs Cobalt SS

[Snowboardr18]

Originally Posted by GrandAmGT1996

No offense Ryan, but thats pretty much common sense

i didn't take the time to read the whole thread and see that the guys question had been answered many times already

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by mr_eh

i've seen stock v6 se's go 15.2 so please dont tell me that gt's are going from low 16s/high 15s down to mid 14s...

the sc'd cars are capable of running low 13s? where? whose done it?

I went from 16's down to 12's am I cool?

Oh, and all these excuses of people saying bolt on and go. I ran 13's out of the box untuned. Actually, I was using just an Apexi S-AFC to get a rough "tune" just so the car wouldn't sputter out.

Admit it people there should be a lot more N-bodies running faster than what they are currently showing up w/.

[gectek]

well i think that if the drivetrains were the same with gearing it would be more clear cut as to who would prevail in a boost vs boost app on those. the transmission and TC can be changed on the GA to a better ratio, like a 3k stall and 3.91 gears, so that would make the car a blast then. i happen to have a 3.91 gear set sitting on my table right now and i might just put it in my trans to see if i like it or not and run it at the track then run the regular 3.29 and see what happens. im also going to use a 2385 stall, which is better than stock, but some of the 4 cyls have the higher stall converters so they have more acceleration due in fact to their lack of NA performance. so to put a price on it, gears plus chain is $250, different input shaft speed sensor is $25 and stall converter is ~$200 for any stall up to 2800, so thats not even $500 for a trans that is on par with the new 4 cyl trannys, so then its all based on EP instead of alot of other variables. ok so add in the programmer ~$400 and thats only ~$900 for it and thats it. not too bad

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by gectek

well i think that if the drivetrains were the same with gearing it would be more clear cut as to who would prevail in a boost vs boost app on those. the transmission and TC can be changed on the GA to a better ratio, like a 3k stall and 3.91 gears, so that would make the car a blast then. i happen to have a 3.91 gear set sitting on my table right now and i might just put it in my trans to see if i like it or not and run it at the track then run the regular 3.29 and see what happens. im also going to use a 2385 stall, which is better than stock, but some of the 4 cyls have the higher stall converters so they have more acceleration due in fact to their lack of NA performance. so to put a price on it, gears plus chain is $250, different input shaft speed sensor is $25 and stall converter is ~$200 for any stall up to 2800, so thats not even $500 for a trans that is on par with the new 4 cyl trannys, so then its all based on EP instead of alot of other variables. ok so add in the programmer ~$400 and thats only ~$900 for it and thats it. not too bad

I don't need no stinkin automatic. I don't even have an option to change my gearing. A quaife is over $1000 for my getrag 5spd. Well I did change the clutch to a more abuse happy one from SPEC.

[lastyear4gt]

Originally Posted by Woody87

plain and simple, a stock SS does somewhere in the mid-13's in a 1/4 mile, a stock GAGT does high-15's.

WRONG! My brothers SS did mid to low 14's all day long with him and I driving it. Im confident Ill hit that with my car, im pretty sure Ill do better than that if I can hook.

[gectek]

Originally Posted by SpyhunteR

I don't need no stinkin automatic. I don't even have an option to change my gearing. A quaife is over $1000 for my getrag 5spd. Well I did change the clutch to a more abuse happy one from SPEC.

well that was in trying to make an equal comparison, like the manual GAs dont have power stock because they have the 4 cyls, and most on here are trying to pit the ss cobalt against the gagt, which is the v6 with auto, so i was trying to make a more equal comparison. even though the ss cobalt doesnt use the auto tranny, it is a possibility, just like the manual in a gagt is possible. but thats another boat again...another can of worms

and also u could use the LSD from EP in ur getrag IIRC, and it isnt as much

also with the gearing where there is a will there is a way, oh and dont forget youll need money...

[SpyhunteR]

Originally Posted by gectek

well that was in trying to make an equal comparison, like the manual GAs dont have power stock because they have the 4 cyls, and most on here are trying to pit the ss cobalt against the gagt, which is the v6 with auto, so i was trying to make a more equal comparison. even though the ss cobalt doesnt use the auto tranny, it is a possibility, just like the manual in a gagt is possible. but thats another boat again...another can of worms

and also u could use the LSD from EP in ur getrag IIRC, and it isnt as much

also with the gearing where there is a will there is a way, oh and dont forget youll need money...

I have the F23 Getrag, not the 282. I would have to send them my diff, for them to come up w/ something, and that causes more downtime then I was right now.

Spy>Cobalt SS> 3.4.

[Schweppe23]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Yeah, that list is really old and out of date. It doesn't even list Pat's times he when he still had just the blower and he was running 13's as were several others. Almost everyone on that list was running stock pcm and stock injectors. Couple of them were in colorado too (high altitude). A lot of them were even running stock pulley's and no headers either. They were basically bolt on the blower and go... and anyone who thinks bolting on a blower and going from low 16's/high 15's down to mid 14's isn't a good gain is an idiot.

Fact is even a few NA cars now that have good supporting mods with injectors and tuning are running low 14's and one is running 13.9's. The SC'd cars are capable of running low 13's, and with a better blower they could be running 12's.

mr eh quote"i've seen stock v6 se's go 15.2 so please dont tell me that gt's are going from low 16s/high 15s down to mid 14s...

the sc'd cars are capable of running low 13s? where? whose done it?" [quote]

I took the magnusson to 13.3s and that was on a very basic tune. Had i went to the 42#ers at the time and done some real tuning on it (not just a lil ICCU magic) i think I could have broke into the 12s with the eaton sc setup.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by mr_eh

i've seen stock v6 se's go 15.2 so please dont tell me that gt's are going from low 16s/high 15s down to mid 14s...

the sc'd cars are capable of running low 13s? where? whose done it?

Fastest I've ever seen a "stock GA'' do was 15.6 and he had a factory freak. Most aren't capable of that.


Pat ran a 13.3 with the magnacharger before he switched to turbo and started running 12's. There's your answers.

[AleroB888]

Originally Posted by Schweppe23

I took the magnusson to 13.3s and that was on a very basic tune. Had i went to the 42#ers at the time and done some real tuning on it (not just a lil ICCU magic) i think I could have broke into the 12s with the eaton sc setup.

I don't doubt that at all. What I would like to know is how the Cobalt SS guys are running 13 LBS. of boost with those units. Are they updated M62's?

[Schweppe23]

I dont know if they are a different gen or not... Their displacement is smaller so thats how they can push those units to a higher psi. versus what we may see out of them

[bballr4567]

Arent they M90s??? Plus I think that the fact they have an inline engine it will make them easier to push the higher boost numbers correct??

They are nice damn cars though.

[Blackrider]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Arent they M90s??? Plus I think that the fact they have an inline engine it will make them easier to push the higher boost numbers correct??

They are nice damn cars though.

No, M62's

I myself they they look like crap.

[mr_eh]

[quote=Schweppe23;860923]mr eh quote"i've seen stock v6 se's go 15.2 so please dont tell me that gt's are going from low 16s/high 15s down to mid 14s...

the sc'd cars are capable of running low 13s? where? whose done it?"

I took the magnusson to 13.3s and that was on a very basic tune. Had i went to the 42#ers at the time and done some real tuning on it (not just a lil ICCU magic) i think I could have broke into the 12s with the eaton sc setup.

when you were going 13.3's what were your supporting mods? ... did you have engine work at this point?

ask iceman about the 15.1 se v6 =P

[curtpank]

Consumer Reports:

2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged: 1/4 mile: 15.1 @ 96 (0-60 in 6.8 sec)
2006 Honda Civic Si: 1/4 mile: 15.1 @99 (0-60 in 7.1 sec)

two evenly matched 2-litre engines, one using boost, the other not.

[nascarnate326]

Originally Posted by curtpank

Consumer Reports:

2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged: 1/4 mile: 15.1 @ 96 (0-60 in 6.8 sec)
2006 Honda Civic Si: 1/4 mile: 15.1 @99 (0-60 in 7.1 sec)

two evenly matched 2-litre engines, one using boost, the other not.

Because a mag that tests computer printers is going to get a great 1/4 mile time.....

[99Alero_Boy]

Originally Posted by AleroB888

I don't doubt that at all. What I would like to know is how the Cobalt SS guys are running 13 LBS. of boost with those units. Are they updated M62's?

greg pretty sure they are updated a little bit, GA and Alero guys have a couple gen IIIs and most of us have gen IV, most of the early cobalts have a gen V m-62 and the newer ones have a gen VI because there have been talks on the cobalt forums about swapping internals from a gen V to a gen VI

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Arent they M90s??? Plus I think that the fact they have an inline engine it will make them easier to push the higher boost numbers correct??

They are nice damn cars though.

Inline or V6 has absolutely no affect on boost.

They are using gen5 M62 blowers. Most of our kits are gen4 M62's and a few of the early prototypes were gen3's.

The reason they get 13psi is it is a smaller engine. You have to remember that psi and airflow are two different things. The same blower turning at the same speed will move the same amount of air on either engine, but will make more pressure in the manifold on their engine and less on our because our engine moves more air (larger displacement). If you want more boost pressure on ours you have to spin the blower faster, and eventually step up to a larger blower.

[bballr4567]

Ahhh see I was just shooting out a reason. I had NO IDEA. I kinda figured that the smaller engine allowed for more boost just because it was smaller. Kinda like when you use your thumb to make the water hose high pressure right??

[lastyear4gt]

Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe that you can also change the impellers inside to ones with a more radical curvature to squeeze more air and get higher boost levels. I know the bigger V8 superchargers can, I dont know about us though.

FYI for those of you who dont know, the stage 2 cobalt SS kit puts the boost to 17PSI. But funny enough the 2.8" pulley which is the stage 2 pulley on the cobalt and (also is the smallest pulley you can put on that SC without machining the snout for clearance), is the stock size pulley on our magnacharger kits that only put out 6PSI. There is a perfect example. 2 Chargers, both M62, one puts out 17PSI, one puts out 6PSI. Why? 2.0L Vs. 3.4L, 4 cylinders Vs. 6.

Remember pressure is a result of restriction . The smaller the orifice, the more pressure builds up.