Hiccup

zhd1000 · 03-12-2007, 04:56 PM

under slight to moderate acceleration (like regaining speed after turning left or leaving a red light under normal driving conditions) i occasionally get a small hiccup.. sometimes 2-4 in a row.. no SES codes have been thrown.. i installed DHP v1.0 in the fall sometime and installed FFP pulley (and had to get a new 24x sensor bc i broke the old one

) a couple months ago.. i didn't get a CASE learn after either mod.. does anyone think that the hiccups could be caused by NOT having the CASE learn done? any other thoughts as to what may be causing this? it starting on Friday when the temperatures have graced northern illinois with the 60s and heavy rains.. don't think that the extra moisture has anything to do with it because it did it today and it's not raining.. any ideas? thanks.

zhd1000 · 03-12-2007, 05:20 PM

update report: my dad just got back from taking the ga a short trip up the interstate and he said he could cruise at around 65 fine but when he would sneak up to around 70 and the car would sputter, he would back off down to 65ish and it would be fine.. again, no codes..

gectek · 03-12-2007, 05:57 PM

usually that is spark or fuel related, more spark than fuel though. id look at the fuel filter though anyway, and also when u get the hiccup, have a scan tool on it to read which cyl is the culprit, or if it is across the board.

polo77 · 03-12-2007, 06:51 PM

My brother had a similar problem with his 98 saturn. only hiccuped when he took off. NOw it died and wont turn over. Found out to be a fuel pressure regulator.

zhd1000 · 03-12-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gectek

usually that is spark or fuel related, more spark than fuel though. id look at the fuel filter though anyway, and also when u get the hiccup, have a scan tool on it to read which cyl is the culprit, or if it is across the board.

hmm.. i changed the plugs to ngk tr55 maybe 2 yrs ago.. stock wires.. car is reaching for 75k miles, maybe the fuel filter is going.. how do i check that? just take it out and replace.. it's only $15 on pfyc.. i wish i had a scan tool at my disposal tho

any thoughts about not getting a case learn done?

Sprucegagt · 03-12-2007, 10:02 PM

I don't think the case learn is your problem. Instead I'm with gectek and change your fuel filter if it's more than a year old.

gectek · 03-12-2007, 10:57 PM

that is usually a random misfire code, and maybe a crank/cam or crank/crank correlation code, but it wouldnt misfire due to that i dont think. its either one or the other though, fuel or spark. and just cuz the wires are newer doesnt mean they arent leaking voltage or inducing voltage, and could be a bad coil also or ICM...just a few thoughts

zhd1000 · 03-13-2007, 11:58 AM

what do you mean by spark? the plugs or the wires or both? or something else? so you think it's either bad fuel filter or plugs/wires?

gectek · 03-13-2007, 01:54 PM

no there is more to spark than plugs and wires, there are the coils, ICM, crank sensor(x2) and the cam sensor AND all the wiring included in that. sometimes u will get induced voltage from one of the wires laying on another wire or another plug wire. or a bad coil will show up sometimes either under load or under no load. the only way to test a coil for good operation is with an oscilloscope or a DSO. any other misfire can be detected with a scan tool. if you go get the history codes read then maybe they will tell u if it is a localized cylinder. if it is then i would look at something cyl specific...like a plug, or maybe a valve...alot of things really. the best thing to do would be either to buy a cheap DSO off ebay and use it, that way you can even rent it out to other people to use, or a scan tool, or take it to a good tech and have him run the tests. i would def do the fuel filter first though. and since it usually shows under load, it would either be fuel or spark. i dont see anything else making a bad environment than that under load.

but also anothing thing that shows up under load could be timing...maybe a loose timing chain

zhd1000 · 04-15-2007, 09:11 AM

alright.. so i replaced the fuel filter and it had been about a week of perfect driving.. so i assumed the problem was the filter.. but yesterday it began to do the same thing.. where do i go next??

zhd1000 · 04-16-2007, 04:07 PM

a little more info..

the hiccup/sputter is definately back.. new fuel filter and nothing for a week and then it's back to normal..

today i was trying to pay attention to when it was occuring and here's what i got:

it occurs the most right after the 2-3 shift
also occurs right after 1-2 and 3-4 but not nearly as often

occurs when crusing above 65mph
occurs when accelerating (moderately, say 25-50% throttle?) mostly around 30mph

DOES NOT occur at WOT.. went 0-60 and 40-90 and it didn't happen until i started crusing at 65-70mph
also doesn't occur under heavy accelerating (below WOT) either..

please help

i really would like this problem to not be in the transmission

also, i'm planning on going to the drag strip this weekend, do you think that this condition could be dangerous to the motor/trans if put under that kind of stress.. it doens't happen at WOT so i'm thinking no.. but this seems to be a lack of fuel getting to the engine and that wouldn't take much to hurt the engine..

also, NO SES/SVS light

mfuller · 04-16-2007, 06:10 PM

I was experiencing the same problem a while back. 20 bucks says the PCM is commanding too much timing. Put your stocker back in and see if you can duplicate the problem.
With the FFP pulley and the DHP, you really should get a CASE learn.
I could try to do it for you - I think my PowrTuner will do it.

zhd1000 · 04-16-2007, 07:51 PM

hey that would be awesome if you could do that for me... i'll try putting the stock PCM back in, we'll see what that will do..

zhd1000 · 04-18-2007, 08:08 AM

alright.. i swaped back the OE PCM and so far i've driven the car from machesney to dekalb.. i still got the hiccup/sputtering at 68-70mph.. i got a little on the 2-3 shift once.. so i'm guessing if i give it a little bit of time it'll come back.. so as far as what's wrong, i think the PCM is out.. though it'd still be nice to get a CASE done..

zhd1000 · 04-19-2007, 07:36 AM

any thoughts?? what should i try next?? could it be the fuel pump or a bad injector? i wish an SES light would just come on so i could figure this out

zhd1000 · 04-19-2007, 08:22 PM

well i put the DHP back in and the DHP seems to amplify the problem.. you can definately feel it during the 2-3 shift with DHP and hardly at all with stock..

Sprucegagt · 04-19-2007, 09:18 PM

Does it sputter real bad when lugging the engine? Say trying to go up a hill at 45 MPH.

zhd1000 · 04-19-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprucegagt

Does it sputter real bad when lugging the engine? Say trying to go up a hill at 45 MPH.

nope.. just cruising at 67-70 and during light-moderate acceleration around 30-35 (frequently during or immediately following the 2-3 shift)

Sprucegagt · 04-19-2007, 10:20 PM

One more question. How bad was the fuel filter you changed out? Did you get a lot of black gas out of it.

zhd1000 · 04-19-2007, 10:36 PM

i didn't really check out the filter that much.. as far as the gas that came out of the filter no it wasn't black.. looked like normal fuel to me..

could this be a problem with the cat?? i don't have a rotten egg smell or anything.. just wondering bc my TOG and SLP are both 2.5" and the stock cat is 2.25".. maybe it's finanly clogging up? and the TOGs are just nickle coated so they aren't flaking..

03-12-2007, 04:56 PM	#1
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	Hiccup under slight to moderate acceleration (like regaining speed after turning left or leaving a red light under normal driving conditions) i occasionally get a small hiccup.. sometimes 2-4 in a row.. no SES codes have been thrown.. i installed DHP v1.0 in the fall sometime and installed FFP pulley (and had to get a new 24x sensor bc i broke the old one ) a couple months ago.. i didn't get a CASE learn after either mod.. does anyone think that the hiccups could be caused by NOT having the CASE learn done? any other thoughts as to what may be causing this? it starting on Friday when the temperatures have graced northern illinois with the 60s and heavy rains.. don't think that the extra moisture has anything to do with it because it did it today and it's not raining.. any ideas? thanks.

03-12-2007, 05:57 PM	#3
gectek I hate nose hair AKA: John Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,051 Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am GT sc/t	usually that is spark or fuel related, more spark than fuel though. id look at the fuel filter though anyway, and also when u get the hiccup, have a scan tool on it to read which cyl is the culprit, or if it is across the board. __________________ If you unscrew ur belly button, will ur butt fall off? Procrastinators UNITE!!!.....tomorrow

03-12-2007, 10:02 PM	#6
Sprucegagt Schwartz Power! AKA: Andy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ranson, WV Age: 46 Posts: 2,027 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	I don't think the case learn is your problem. Instead I'm with gectek and change your fuel filter if it's more than a year old. __________________ 2000 Grand Am GT (some day it will be SC/T) Mods: alot

03-12-2007, 10:57 PM	#7
gectek I hate nose hair AKA: John Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,051 Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am GT sc/t	that is usually a random misfire code, and maybe a crank/cam or crank/crank correlation code, but it wouldnt misfire due to that i dont think. its either one or the other though, fuel or spark. and just cuz the wires are newer doesnt mean they arent leaking voltage or inducing voltage, and could be a bad coil also or ICM...just a few thoughts __________________ If you unscrew ur belly button, will ur butt fall off? Procrastinators UNITE!!!.....tomorrow

03-13-2007, 01:54 PM	#9
gectek I hate nose hair AKA: John Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,051 Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am GT sc/t	no there is more to spark than plugs and wires, there are the coils, ICM, crank sensor(x2) and the cam sensor AND all the wiring included in that. sometimes u will get induced voltage from one of the wires laying on another wire or another plug wire. or a bad coil will show up sometimes either under load or under no load. the only way to test a coil for good operation is with an oscilloscope or a DSO. any other misfire can be detected with a scan tool. if you go get the history codes read then maybe they will tell u if it is a localized cylinder. if it is then i would look at something cyl specific...like a plug, or maybe a valve...alot of things really. the best thing to do would be either to buy a cheap DSO off ebay and use it, that way you can even rent it out to other people to use, or a scan tool, or take it to a good tech and have him run the tests. i would def do the fuel filter first though. and since it usually shows under load, it would either be fuel or spark. i dont see anything else making a bad environment than that under load. but also anothing thing that shows up under load could be timing...maybe a loose timing chain __________________ If you unscrew ur belly button, will ur butt fall off? Procrastinators UNITE!!!.....tomorrow Last edited by gectek; 03-13-2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: add

03-12-2007, 05:20 PM	#2
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	update report: my dad just got back from taking the ga a short trip up the interstate and he said he could cruise at around 65 fine but when he would sneak up to around 70 and the car would sputter, he would back off down to 65ish and it would be fine.. again, no codes..

03-12-2007, 06:51 PM	#4
polo77 GAGT - Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Poland Maine Posts: 72 Vehicle: 1999 Grand am GT	My brother had a similar problem with his 98 saturn. only hiccuped when he took off. NOw it died and wont turn over. Found out to be a fuel pressure regulator.

03-13-2007, 11:58 AM	#8
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	what do you mean by spark? the plugs or the wires or both? or something else? so you think it's either bad fuel filter or plugs/wires?

04-15-2007, 09:11 AM	#10
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	alright.. so i replaced the fuel filter and it had been about a week of perfect driving.. so i assumed the problem was the filter.. but yesterday it began to do the same thing.. where do i go next??

04-16-2007, 04:07 PM	#11
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	a little more info.. the hiccup/sputter is definately back.. new fuel filter and nothing for a week and then it's back to normal.. today i was trying to pay attention to when it was occuring and here's what i got: it occurs the most right after the 2-3 shift also occurs right after 1-2 and 3-4 but not nearly as often occurs when crusing above 65mph occurs when accelerating (moderately, say 25-50% throttle?) mostly around 30mph DOES NOT occur at WOT.. went 0-60 and 40-90 and it didn't happen until i started crusing at 65-70mph also doesn't occur under heavy accelerating (below WOT) either.. please help i really would like this problem to not be in the transmission also, i'm planning on going to the drag strip this weekend, do you think that this condition could be dangerous to the motor/trans if put under that kind of stress.. it doens't happen at WOT so i'm thinking no.. but this seems to be a lack of fuel getting to the engine and that wouldn't take much to hurt the engine.. also, NO SES/SVS light

04-16-2007, 06:10 PM	#12
mfuller Mr. Common Sense AKA: Matt Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Loves Park, IL USA Age: 47 Posts: 2,031 Vehicle: 2000 Alero GLS sedan	I was experiencing the same problem a while back. 20 bucks says the PCM is commanding too much timing. Put your stocker back in and see if you can duplicate the problem. With the FFP pulley and the DHP, you really should get a CASE learn. I could try to do it for you - I think my PowrTuner will do it. __________________ Matt - Resident brake and suspension guru Also, your friendly Performance and Technical Moderator *Please don't tailgate, text and drive, drink and drive, or otherwise act like an asshat.* Questioning if it will ever run again..... Last edited by mfuller; 04-16-2007 at 06:13 PM.

04-16-2007, 07:51 PM	#13
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	hey that would be awesome if you could do that for me... i'll try putting the stock PCM back in, we'll see what that will do..

04-18-2007, 08:08 AM	#14
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	alright.. i swaped back the OE PCM and so far i've driven the car from machesney to dekalb.. i still got the hiccup/sputtering at 68-70mph.. i got a little on the 2-3 shift once.. so i'm guessing if i give it a little bit of time it'll come back.. so as far as what's wrong, i think the PCM is out.. though it'd still be nice to get a CASE done..

04-19-2007, 07:36 AM	#15
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	any thoughts?? what should i try next?? could it be the fuel pump or a bad injector? i wish an SES light would just come on so i could figure this out

04-19-2007, 08:22 PM	#16
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	well i put the DHP back in and the DHP seems to amplify the problem.. you can definately feel it during the 2-3 shift with DHP and hardly at all with stock..

04-19-2007, 09:18 PM	#17
Sprucegagt Schwartz Power! AKA: Andy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ranson, WV Age: 46 Posts: 2,027 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	Does it sputter real bad when lugging the engine? Say trying to go up a hill at 45 MPH. __________________ 2000 Grand Am GT (some day it will be SC/T) Mods: alot

04-19-2007, 10:20 PM	#19
Sprucegagt Schwartz Power! AKA: Andy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ranson, WV Age: 46 Posts: 2,027 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	One more question. How bad was the fuel filter you changed out? Did you get a lot of black gas out of it. __________________ 2000 Grand Am GT (some day it will be SC/T) Mods: alot

04-19-2007, 10:36 PM	#20
zhd1000 15.195 @ 89.82 AKA: Zach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rockton, IL Age: 36 Posts: 786 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	i didn't really check out the filter that much.. as far as the gas that came out of the filter no it wasn't black.. looked like normal fuel to me.. could this be a problem with the cat?? i don't have a rotten egg smell or anything.. just wondering bc my TOG and SLP are both 2.5" and the stock cat is 2.25".. maybe it's finanly clogging up? and the TOGs are just nickle coated so they aren't flaking..

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