Should they make it law that winter tires are required in the winter time

[Mike Jung]

From: Toronto Star Newspaper, Wheels section, page G15, Saturday, Feb. 7, '04

Canadian winters call for better tires
Too many vehicles sold with inadequate rubber.


Opinion by: John Mahler


Quebec is seriously considering making winter tires mandatory in order to reduce the number of crashes of vehicles that lose control in slippery conditions.

The goal of the "improving safety" came about 4-years ago when a young Quebec driver died in an accident when his vehicle slid on a path of black ice. Benoit Plamondon's car was not equipped with winter tires. A corner's inquest has recommended mandatory winter tire laws.

Transport Minister Yvon Marcoux says the matter will be examined, but points out Quebecers' use winter tires has steadily increased due to public education.

Looking at this proposal from a "tire guy's" point of view, the big issue is: "Can we legislate safety?" There is no question that winter tires are a huge performance advantage starts at plus 7°C [45°F]. So even on cold late autumn mornings, a driver with winter tire-equipped car has better control.

Quebec has the highest rate of winter tire use in Canada. Would a law make a significant difference? It certainly improved road safety in Sweden when winter tires there became compulsory.

Sweden & Finland both have such laws. Studies made by the Swedish National Road & Transport Research Institute showed a reduction of personal-injury accidents & fatalities during winter of 11 to 14%, depending on whether the road was snow-covered or bare. Sweden has since passed a second law requiring that all tires have a minimum tread depth during winter of 3mm [about little over 3/32"]. The previous standard was 1.6mm.

So it seems a law would help if it were obeyed. However, Sweden has a different driving culture in winter: roads are less salted & less cleared to bare pavement than in North America. Swedes are expected to drive on snow-covered roads. Studded winter tires are in the majority. In Finland, only 64% of the roads are paved; somewhat different that southern Ontario, where I live, & Quebec.

Transport Canada has been working on public education, in co-operation with tire industry. Plus, it has set tough standards for what is considered a winter tire. In conjunction with the Rubber Association of Canada, the federal regulator has assigned a test in snow before they qualify for the marking, showing a mountain with a snowflake inside. The all-season tire with an "M+S" (mud & snow) marking is not required to be tested in real snow.

If winter tires are good, are studded winter tires better? Studs are small metal or composite posts that are screwed into the tire blocks with just their tops left exposed. On bare ice & compacted snow, they can stop in shorter distances & provide better accident-avoidance steering control. But from my perspective, how often does GTA [Greater Toronto Area] driver find glare ice between Etobicoke & Bloor Street? In the GTA, we close a road if there's ice, until the salt trucks arrive.

However, on loose snow, slush or bare pavement, studs offer little advantage. Studs are still legal in most parts of Canada during winter months. But in Ontario, data from the late 1970s caused them to be banned because of damage to highway pavement.

Stud technology has come a long way since then. Studs are lighter & some are made of softer material, but none can claim to be totally asphalt friendly.

An unforeseen safety issue emerged with stud use, the danger to drivers with non-studded tires. As cars with studs cut small grooves & turns ice, making the road condition potentially worse for other traffic.

And on ice, the studs chip ice. These shavings melt under pressure of the following cars' tires & act as a lubricant. If every car was stud-equipped, it would be less of an issue.

On bare pavement, studded tires usually can't stop as short as a good winter tire, & directional stability is harder to control. So studs are not the panacea they seem.

And how fair & enforceable would a winter tire law be? Would the driver of a car equipped with 5-year-old cracked sidewall with just 2mm [about 2/32"] tread left be legal, while a driver with a new set of aggressively treaded all-season tires with 11mm [about 13/32"] of rubber would be illegal? In that scenario, I'd rather be in the second car.

I believe more tire industry & government public education is the answer. And please let some government body twist the arm of the auto manufacturers & car dealers to get on side & help the program. They have been woefully silent.

Too many vehicles are sold in Canada on painfully inadequate tires to save a few dollars a unit. All-season tires run the gamut from performance that could be considered criminal to grip that is excellent. But too often, grip levels on OE tires are near bottom of the scale.

I have a real problem with car dealers that sell a car in the fall & winter & fail to point out to the buyer that the car is equipped with low-profile, summer high-performance tires, totally unsuited for the current season.

Why not think the consumer's safety instead of just the sale. If a set of winter tires on extra rims are part of the car purchase, the cost can be spread out over the time period of the purchase or lease & everyone wins.

Just a few weeks ago during a heavy snowfall, while I was driving a rear-drive Porsche with winter tires up the Avenue Road hill, a new Jaguar came sliding down the hill backwards with its wheels spinning & a Lexus was doing lazy 360° spins down the hill in the opposite lanes.

This lack of traction was stupidity, either the driver's part or that of the dealerships' sales people. And it also highlights aids can't create traction, they can only maximize what traction you have. And if you have none, well, the maximum of nothing is nothing.

My recommendations for best winter driving: get 4-winter tires. 2 will NOT do; why have half the car grip while the other half slips? Replace them when the tread blocks lose their sharp edges. Maintain proper air pressure for your vehicle. And take the time to take a skid control school; it could save your life. Let's not legislate down to the dumbest common denominator.

John Mahler is Wheels' tire specialist.

[Mike Jung]

I read this in the local Toronto Star weekend Saturday's newspaper & thought it was interesting.
[I couldn't find a link to the article on their online paper; so I re-typed it out for you guys to read.]

Would do you guys think of it?
Should they make it law; requiring winter tires during the winter season?

& people here were talking about trying to get car insurance companies to give discounts for people who put 4-winter tires on their vehicles during the winter season.

[Grand AM Sam II]

an insurance discount to those who have winter tires in the winter would be sweet, but then they'd have to find a way to monitor that you actually have them on...might be costly to send a guy to check that people really have winter tires...

i dont think this law will come into effect if its proposed...they should look for other incentives like the insurance discount than to force people...its nice thinking, but just not feasable...

[Gt00]

I don't think they need to be mandatory in the city where the roads are plowed . There are to many stupid laws to save us from ourselves already ! What are they gonna have tire police now ! They would probably only check if you were in an accident or pulled you over anyway .

[Mike Jung]

Update: Quebec passed the law for 2008, for mandatory winter tires from Nov 15 to April 15.

Quebec first province to make winter tires mandatory

Last Updated: Thursday, December 20, 2007 | 7:24 PM ET
CBC News

Quebec motorists will be required to swap their summer tires for winter ones starting next winter, under a provincial law passed Wednesday.

As of Nov. 15, 2008, drivers will have to equip their vehicles with snow tires from that day each year through to April 15. The province estimates that 90 per cent of vehicles already use snow tires though an estimated 500,000 people rely on all-season tires.

The law makes Quebec the first province to require winter tires.

Jean-Marie de Koninck, who served as the head of a provincial task force on road safety, said the change is expected to help curb winter accidents.

"There's about 10 per cent of the people right now that don't have winter tires on and they're involved in 38 per cent of the accidents on the road in the winter," he said.

"It does make a big difference if you have summer tires on or winter tires on," he said.

Drivers found without the tires will be fined between $200 and $300, though de Koninck acknowledged spotting drivers without winter tires may be difficult for police officers.

"It is difficult for policemen to enforce the law," he said. "But overall if it reduces the number of fatalities on the road, then we should go ahead with it."

Finland, Sweden, Estonia and Latvia are among the countries that have similar laws requiring drivers to use winter tires to navigate snowy roads.

[ryanbgb22]

Nov - April? Thats waaaaaaaaaaaay too long to be required. I plan on having mind off mid March. I cant believe that actually went through as a law.

[Bryan]

Damn that kinda sucks. I'm pretty surprised at the time period they're mandatory.

[stillriza]

I think its a stupid law. More ways for the gov. to nail ur pocket in the winter time. If you drive according to weather conditions, and you have all seasons on then you will be fine. It's those idiots who throw on winters and still think they can do 130 on the highways in the middle of an ice storm or on snow covered roads.

[Tonyyank]

i love to see the bacon pull you over to check your tires in march and its 50 degrees

[Ajaxus]

Gentlemen, keep in mind that was for Canada..they're WAAAAAAAY behind the modern world..

[Tonyyank]

Mandatory rifles for all of the polar bears too ????

[Sleepwalkr]

So is your Canadanadian goverment gonna pick up the tab for this, or is this out of your own pocket? If they're paying for it, then fine..... but if its your bill, then this sucks for you. It ain't my country to bitch about it, but personally I think its wrong.

[stillriza]

Canadian gov't to pick up the bill.... That's like saying the grandam is in exotic.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by stillriza

I think its a stupid law. More ways for the gov. to nail ur pocket in the winter time. If you drive according to weather conditions, and you have all seasons on then you will be fine. It's those idiots who throw on winters and still think they can do 130 on the highways in the middle of an ice storm or on snow covered roads.

You've got it backwards. People with winter tires usually drive carefully. The fact they take the trouble to get winter tires means they recognize conditions are bad and they want more control of their vehicle. It's the SUV drivers with 4WD that think they can still drive normal speeds in snow, even though they can't stop or turn faster... and they generally still use all season tires too.


And whatever you might believe, snow tires are definitely better. My parents have them on both their cars and the difference is unbelievable. Sure, if you drive carefully you can still get around on regular all seasons, but it's not you that you have to worry about. It the other drivers on the road who don't know how to drive in snow. If you have snow tires and have more control over your car you are more likely to be able to avoid an accident. It's just a good idea. Whether the gov should step in and make it mandatory is questionable... but they do need to do something to encourage people to use snow tires or they'll just keep going without.

[SSRacer]

I would say it's not that different from seatbelt or helmet laws, except that it's not going to be cheap for the owners. Seatbelts are free, helmets are not that expensive, but winter tires and a spare set of rims is gonna cost ya. youcould do it without rims, but that's even more of a hassle.

As far as these laws go, it has always cracked me up that in Kentucky we have a mandatory seatbelt law, but no helmet law for motorcylces...wtf

[Mike Jung]

Originally Posted by stillriza

If you drive according to weather conditions, and you have all seasons on then you will be fine. It's those idiots who throw on winters and still think they can do 130 on the highways in the middle of an ice storm or on snow covered roads.

So does that mean, you do not drive (with all-season tires) when it is below -10°C/50°F outside ?

Because that is the temperature that all-season tires must be made usable to.
Anything below that, & the rubber turns hard; & does not stick to the roads.

Kind of like summer tires below 5°C/41°F (the rubber turns hard & does not stick to the road).
If you would (I would hope) not drive with summer tires when it is below 5°C/41°F, why would you drive with all-season tires below -10°C/50°F ?


I have my Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 winter performance tires mainly for their cold temperature traction ablities (as I live in the city).
If I had wanted snow traction ablities as a priority, I would have not went with a winter performance tire; but a hard core "snow" winter tire.


I dare anyone that thinks all-season tires are ok in the winter time:
Drive their car on dry pavement, when it is at/below -20°C/-4°F outside & hit the brakes.
Then drive a car with winter tires & hit the brakes.
No comparison.

Why do you think we see so many spin-outs on dry roads in Toronto, when it is like/below -20°C/-4°F outside & all-season tires don't stick to the road ?


I have winter tires on my GA; & I have bought winter tires for my Mom's car.

[geldartb]

seriously people stop bitching about the cost of tires.
im not made of money but when it comes to my safety and having that extra grip to control the car then yeah it gets snow tires.

if your too cheap to buy the correct tires or have tires that are reasonably good when there is snow or whatever on the ground then dont drive, cause you better believe that if you slam into my car cause your cheap ass doesnt have good tires you better believe im going to make an imprint the shape of my steel toe in your face, and one that looks like a breaker bar ion the rest pf your face.

christ ive had snow tires on every car i own does that mean i drive around not giving a **** no it doesnt, i drive carefully and the snow tires give me the extra advantage to react and control it better if the cars does slide a little..

[Panacea]

I understand the law, but it's not right to force people. You're easily looking at $500-1000 for each vehicle. I for one can't afford that extra expense. If I kept the car for 10 years, yes, but if I'm only going to have it for 1-3 years why waste the money? There's no guarantee that those steelies will fit on your next vehicle.

Oh btw, snow tires for my car are $130/ea for the cheapest ones!!!

[geldartb]

Originally Posted by Panacea

I understand the law, but it's not right to force people. You're easily looking at $500-1000 for each vehicle. I for one can't afford that extra expense. If I kept the car for 10 years, yes, but if I'm only going to have it for 1-3 years why waste the money? There's no guarantee that those steelies will fit on your next vehicle.

Oh btw, snow tires for my car are $130/ea for the cheapest ones!!!

QFT my 16" blizaks were right around a 100 a peice. shop around.

[Panacea]

Originally Posted by geldartb

QFT my 16" blizaks were right around a 100 a peice. shop around.

Those prices were from tirerack. I have an odd sized tire so there's not a lot of choices. You would think winter tires would be cheaper since they're only used for 1/4 of the year, but that's not the case.

A stupid question, but if you get winter tires can you use them all year round or will the summer months tear them up?