Long Term Results of MMS Stage 2 package

[williamGT]

In August 2010, I'll be buying the Stage2 kit if you still sell them then. I want my loan paid off first.

[lastyear4gt]

OK, so again I ask, with the success of the stage 2 setup, how much longer do I have to wait for said stage 3 boost set-up? I would be interested in being the guinea pig!!

[myneedforspeed]

I would be interested in watching him be the guinea pig....i live so close, and would love to see this build up in person...i'm very surprised we have not met up lastyear4gt...i'm down in ajax fairly regularly in the summer, and we have two of the only black sc/ts in ontario. would be hard to miss each other....u know, other than the fact that you get a nice turbo sound out of yours

[MilzyZ34]

Unless specified by the customer, we use whatever chain setup came from the factory for their car. You may think the newer chain is weaker due to it's smaller size, but in my opinion the older chain is worse b/c it chews up the cam sprocket.

I don't know how much more hp the Stage 2 is capable of until we dyno it again with the restriction(s) removed.

Blackbombshell - In my opinion, Tim's car didn't run like crap when it came in. I drove the car to the dyno, and the thing screamed. I literally did not touch a single bolt or even a spark plug before we took it there, and you see the power it made. We did not remove Tim's timing chain. We simply ran a few tests and took it back to the dyno. Tim has the factory 2000+ style chain, brand new 86k miles ago. I agree that the timing setup is one of the few remaining weak links in the engine, the other being the lifters. We are increasing the spring pressure to double or more than factory in some cases, which I'm sure has an effect on both. i cna't really speculate exactly how many miles the chain will last b/c there are simply too many factors involved. All I know if that Tim's has the highest miles and shows no signs of an eminent chain failure. He has no excessive noises, his timing is not off, and the engine runs well. Rest assured that I am working on a solution for the chain issue.

[Badblack04GT]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

Unless specified by the customer, we use whatever chain setup came from the factory for their car. You may think the newer chain is weaker due to it's smaller size, but in my opinion the older chain is worse b/c it chews up the cam sprocket.

Aah, i've never heard of the older one chewing up the sprocket. I just know mine failed after 800 miles with a large cam and making lots of power (2004 chain).


As for this PCV discussion.. Alot of race teams actually install a vacuum pump on the crank case to suck out the blowby, lots have shown a small power increase by doing so. I've actually got the components to do this, when i get the car out of storage and put it all back together i'll take some pics and post them on 60degreev6.com

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by Badblack04GT

Aah, i've never heard of the older one chewing up the sprocket. I just know mine failed after 800 miles with a large cam and making lots of power (2004 chain).


As for this PCV discussion.. Alot of race teams actually install a vacuum pump on the crank case to suck out the blowby, lots have shown a small power increase by doing so. I've actually got the components to do this, when i get the car out of storage and put it all back together i'll take some pics and post them on 60degreev6.com

I've seen a few older style sprockets get chewed. On my 99, shortly after I bought it, went to start it one time, and the engine was locked up, found that the cam sprocket had broken in half, and was in a bind, not allowing the engine to turn.

I agree that a vacuum pump could very possibly free up some power, I just don't want that crap pumped back into the intake.

[Blackbombshell9]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

Unless specified by the customer, we use whatever chain setup came from the factory for their car. You may think the newer chain is weaker due to it's smaller size, but in my opinion the older chain is worse b/c it chews up the cam sprocket.

I don't know how much more hp the Stage 2 is capable of until we dyno it again with the restriction(s) removed.

Blackbombshell - In my opinion, Tim's car didn't run like crap when it came in. I drove the car to the dyno, and the thing screamed. I literally did not touch a single bolt or even a spark plug before we took it there, and you see the power it made. We did not remove Tim's timing chain. We simply ran a few tests and took it back to the dyno. Tim has the factory 2000+ style chain, brand new 86k miles ago. I agree that the timing setup is one of the few remaining weak links in the engine, the other being the lifters. We are increasing the spring pressure to double or more than factory in some cases, which I'm sure has an effect on both. i cna't really speculate exactly how many miles the chain will last b/c there are simply too many factors involved. All I know if that Tim's has the highest miles and shows no signs of an eminent chain failure. He has no excessive noises, his timing is not off, and the engine runs well. Rest assured that I am working on a solution for the chain issue.

Thanks for the reply.
I suppose Tim fixed his issues before he made it to your shop. If you didn't catch his recent thread about his emissions problems. 1000 HC. So he was misfiring.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by Blackbombshell9

Thanks for the reply.
I suppose Tim fixed his issues before he made it to your shop. If you didn't catch his recent thread about his emissions problems. 1000 HC. So he was misfiring.

Well it's not misfiring, and the plugs all looked great. I know he was concerned on whether or not the car would pass emissions. I think the lack of oil pooled up in the intake manifold is going to help clean up his emissions some.

[Blackbombshell9]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

Well it's not misfiring, and the plugs all looked great. I know he was concerned on whether or not the car would pass emissions. I think the lack of oil pooled up in the intake manifold is going to help clean up his emissions some.

The pooling oil MIGHT reduce emissions a TAD. But it won't in no way reduce his 1000 HC level. That is a decent misfire. I don't like to get off topic but again he has HIGH HC. And I don't need to tell you that 1000 HC means he is misfiring. So was Tim's emissions sheet incorrect? Possibly. Could his misfire be the result of low HP #'s? Possibly. Lean misfire? You're the mechanic, I'm just the certified emissions specialist. Which is what makes me believe that he fixed the problem before he came to your place.
I just have this feeling that whatever is causing his bad emissions report to cause his HP loss. Hopefully that is your issue. Good luck

[xonelith]

Originally Posted by Blackbombshell9

Thanks for the reply.
I suppose Tim fixed his issues before he made it to your shop. If you didn't catch his recent thread about his emissions problems. 1000 HC. So he was misfiring.

No misfire... actually, i'm totally confused. I didn't have the problem fixed before I went to see milzy. Left Milzy's and went for a retest... same issue... but ended up with a pass after paying 200 bucks....

I made an update to my original thread about the emissions... let me know what you think. emissions fail!!

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by Blackbombshell9

The pooling oil MIGHT reduce emissions a TAD. But it won't in no way reduce his 1000 HC level. That is a decent misfire. I don't like to get off topic but again he has HIGH HC. And I don't need to tell you that 1000 HC means he is misfiring. So was Tim's emissions sheet incorrect? Possibly. Could his misfire be the result of low HP #'s? Possibly. Lean misfire? You're the mechanic, I'm just the certified emissions specialist. Which is what makes me believe that he fixed the problem before he came to your place.
I just have this feeling that whatever is causing his bad emissions report to cause his HP loss. Hopefully that is your issue. Good luck

Tim's car didn't have a miss. The only misfire it did have is the one inherent from the cam due to the overlap of the valves. I'm sure you are an expert with emissions on stock vehicles, but on cars with aftermarket camshafts, wouldn't overlap with unburnt fuel escaping out the exhaust valve be characteristic of a misfire without actually being a misfire?

What HP loss?

[silvergtjrad]

I like coffee.

[Sprucegagt]

I have split this thread since the current discussion has gone way off topic. The PCV discussion thread can be found here.

Remove the PCV system for performance?