Pontiac G8 Sport Truck (2010)

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

The PT Cruiser shouldn't have sold either, yet I see dozens of them each day.

What you have to remember is that there is a difference between the car enthusiast and the common consumer. Consumer's don't think the same way we do, if it's new they'll buy it for the perceived "status" it gives them..

completely incorrect on both of your statements.

-The PT Cruiser was practical, and once the first few were out, economical. My mother still has the initial "Premium Edition" silver model from its first year.

-this V8....RWD.....2-seat.....poor fuel mileage....pontiac.....with a "truck bed" that is hardly big enough to haul "truck stuff" in....for $30,000 plus is everything the market does not want. The 10,000 annually whobuy this, will be the niche group who thinks it's cool. it simple serves zero purpose to almost all people.

I always go back to the GTO. If a solidly built coupe, on a well-known platform and V8 drivetrain, with a great interior, can't sell more than 45,000 units in a 4 year timeframe....you're going to have trouble selling anything similar or even more pidgeon-holed.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by ramair4thesoul

Another thing to think about is the death of the mini truck. The Ford Ranger is the only mini truck you can buy right now. Everyone else has gone to the midsize truck. People who like the smaller trucks may very well be interested in this.

uhhh, there's a reason why it's the only one left....THEY DON'T SELL. You and AJ act like the manufacturers dictate the market. They don't....buyers do....and buyers don't buy station wagons and mini-trucks anymore, nor do they buy gas chugging RWD high horsepower cars. The only RWD V8's that sell are the Mustang and Corvette....because they are classics and people buy them for exactly what they are. All others really don't work because they don't have the history.

I'm willing to bet that the Aztek will have sold more units than this G8 Ute ultimately does.

[Ajaxus]

So wait, if they don't buy station wagons, and they don't buy gas chugging RWD high horsepower cars then what do you call a dodge magnum? Last I checked it came in a dozen gas chugging trim levels, with RWD being the main option, and a few AWD options as well, and it is considered to be the modern day station wagon.

Sorry, but while I may not PERSONALLY like the car, I'm not gonna let that get in the way of my logic. People buy cars, it's simple. I may not want to think it will sell, but I believe that I have a good chance of being wrong as consumers have proven before that they'll buy whatever the fock they want to.

If people bought cars based on logic, then nobody would be buying high horsepower cars period. None of us would be modifying cars with mods that can potentially destroy them, we wouldn't be trying to get worse gas mileage out of cars in mods that will never pay out..but we do, because its what we want to do. There is very little that is done in this market that IS logical.

So I stand by what I said before, it will sell.

[Mike Jung]

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

So wait, if they don't buy station wagons, and they don't buy gas chugging RWD high horsepower cars then what do you call a dodge magnum? Last I checked it came in a dozen gas chugging trim levels, with RWD being the main option, and a few AWD options as well, and it is considered to be the modern day station wagon...

But look what is happening to the Dodge Magnum...

Originally Posted by Mike Jung

& the Dodge Magnum is scheduled to stop production in the 1st quarter of 2008...

Brampton, ON plant productions are beng slashed/cut.
They plan to cut their 3rd shift staff.
Chrysler is hurting with their slow sales in North America, & trying to cut down their debt.

Refer to: Chrysler cuts 1,100 Brampton jobs

But yeah, a station wagon would be more useful to the general consumer; than the pick-up truck bed.

Look at Subaru.

[Ajaxus]

Originally Posted by Mike Jung

But look what is happening to the Dodge Magnum...


But yeah, a station wagon would be more useful to the general consumer; than the pick-up truck bed.

Look at Subaru.

Didn't know that, but thanks for the subaru example as a follow up.

[Exodus]

Its just a concept. Probably will never hit the market anyway, just GM propaganda aimed at putting themselves into the spotlight. In marketing terms, ugly can get attention, but the obvious was already stated, its useless and Im sure GM knows this. Its a stratagy called shadow marketing> The more broad the generalized product is shown the more hits you get, you "shadow" the original and give a tweek in appearance and expand its market. This car works in Australia, bring it to the attention to the American marketplace and see what the result is. Cant hurt!

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

So wait, if they don't buy station wagons, and they don't buy gas chugging RWD high horsepower cars then what do you call a dodge magnum?

A canceled vehicle due to horrible sales

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

Sorry, but while I may not PERSONALLY like the car, I'm not gonna let that get in the way of my logic. People buy cars, it's simple. I may not want to think it will sell, but I believe that I have a good chance of being wrong as consumers have proven before that they'll buy whatever the fock they want to.

...based on logical needs/desires, all of which this vehicle meets none of. What you speak of is an Accord, Camry, the old Taurus, Grand Prixs, SUVs, etc.

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

If people bought cars based on logic, then nobody would be buying high horsepower cars period. None of us would be modifying cars with mods that can potentially destroy them, we wouldn't be trying to get worse gas mileage out of cars in mods that will never pay out..but we do, because its what we want to do. There is very little that is done in this market that IS logical.

So I stand by what I said before, it will sell.

There's no such thing as "nobody" buying a car. 500 people buying it are something, but it doesn't make it a solid contributor. But for the record, no, people DON'T buy high horsepower cars for the statistical majority. Nor do they mod cars. I'd bet less than 2% of the driving public do.

I stand by what I have thought forever...you are simply a PW here and when it comes to actually talking cars, you are focking clueless unless you have a magazine or internet article to read from.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by Exodus

Its just a concept. Probably will never hit the market anyway, just GM propaganda aimed at putting themselves into the spotlight.

What part did you miss about this being guaranteed at coming out, will be a 2010 model, and is not a concept?

[Ajaxus]

Atleast I win the popularity contest..


Sorry I can't build a believable devil's advocate argument for something I don't truly support. I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt rather than always assuming the worst..

[GregFarz78]

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

So wait, if they don't buy station wagons, and they don't buy gas chugging RWD high horsepower cars then what do you call a dodge magnum? Last I checked it came in a dozen gas chugging trim levels, with RWD being the main option, and a few AWD options as well, and it is considered to be the modern day station wagon.

Sorry, but while I may not PERSONALLY like the car, I'm not gonna let that get in the way of my logic. People buy cars, it's simple. I may not want to think it will sell, but I believe that I have a good chance of being wrong as consumers have proven before that they'll buy whatever the fock they want to.

If people bought cars based on logic, then nobody would be buying high horsepower cars period. None of us would be modifying cars with mods that can potentially destroy them, we wouldn't be trying to get worse gas mileage out of cars in mods that will never pay out..but we do, because its what we want to do. There is very little that is done in this market that IS logical.

So I stand by what I said before, it will sell.

Why do you think dodge stopped production of the magnum? b/c its a niche car that never really caught on. Look at the suburu baja...

With Subaru projecting to sell 24,000 per year, only 30,000 were sold over four and a half years. Subaru discontinued Baja production in April of 2006

What makes you think this more expensive pontiac is going to sell any better?

[Ajaxus]

Originally Posted by GregFarz78

Why do you think dodge stopped production of the magnum? b/c its a niche car that never really caught on. Look at the suburu baja...

With Subaru projecting to sell 24,000 per year, only 30,000 were sold over four and a half years. Subaru discontinued Baja production in April of 2006

What makes you think this more expensive pontiac is going to sell any better?

From earlier:

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

Didn't know that, but thanks for the subaru example as a follow up.

I didn't know the dodge magnum was stopping production. But subaru is a good example of a station wagon that does hold on.

And yet again, read my past posts about how I also hate the car but rather than always having a negative outlook on them I will give them the benefit of the doubt and attempt to present a "devil's advocate" argument.

[nascarnate326]

This thing will sell well enough. Its exactly what Pontiac needs, niche product.
SSR cant be compared because that was way to expensive, retro, and not functional at all. I would seriously consider this if they had a V6 version. As already stated, GM doesnt make a mini truck anymore, and I could throw my dirtbike in the back of this with no problem.

Its not like GM had to put any money into engineering it, so why not bring it here? Between this, G8 and the hard top solstice Pontiac has a better line up then they have in decades. How many of you have even sat in a G8? They are incredibly nice.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by Ajaxus

Atleast I win the popularity contest..


Sorry I can't build a believable devil's advocate argument for something I don't truly support. I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt rather than always assuming the worst..

I'm assuming the worst because I am actually basing a logical hypothesis according to facts and stats over the course of past history.

I should probably just make up stories about who I know that has seen or done something, that way people might not be given news they won't like to hear.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by nascarnate326

This thing will sell well enough. Its exactly what Pontiac needs, niche product.

no it's not. Pontiac needs a couple solid, well-liked automobiles that are industry leaders and can solidly handle its competitors. They don't need a niche vehicle, to half-ass sell and milk monetary assets from it's bank account (regardless if there is no R&D, there are still ample costs thanks to your great UAW workers).


If the G8 doesn't sell like the Grand Prix of 3-4 years ago....then this Sport Ute and the G8 will be the downfall of Pontiac. And in order for the G8 to sell in great numbers, it's going to need to be whored out to rental agencies. There is absolutely no way they are going to sell 75,000 to 100,000 G8 GTs/GTPs a year!

[Ajaxus]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

I'm assuming the worst because I am actually basing a logical hypothesis according to facts and stats over the course of past history.

I should probably just make up stories about who I know that has seen or done something, that way people might not be given news they won't like to hear.

Wow, pulling an unrelated thread into this one..now you're just grasping at straws.

[Exodus]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

What part did you miss about this being guaranteed at coming out, will be a 2010 model, and is not a concept?

Dont worry dollface, I read it. What GM says and what GM does are two totally different things, not to mention the auto market is drastically changing. 2010 is just a mere 2 years away, so YOU should be educated enough to know that in 2 years technology will change drastically as well. For Christ sakes, the G8 did not hit the market yet, GM is just testing waters with the public and its investors. It would be ignorant of GM to execute this product and they most probably already know it.

Plus, I'll believe it when I see it.

[nascarnate326]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

no it's not. Pontiac needs a couple solid, well-liked automobiles that are industry leaders and can solidly handle its competitors.

If the G8 doesn't sell like the Grand Prix of 3-4 years ago....then this Sport Ute and the G8 will be the downfall of Pontiac. And in order for the G8 to sell in great numbers, it's going to need to be whored out to rental agencies. There is absolutely no way they are going to sell 75,000 to 100,000 G8 GTs/GTPs a year!

The first part is exactly what the G8 is. I havnt seen any reviewers that didnt like it.

And the G8 GT wont sell as well as GP did. GP's were cheap as hell and we all know Pontiac dealers are going to rape people on anything and everything they can. The Malibu is a decent care now and with Camaro coming out soon(kinda) those cars will both pull buyers.

I just dont see how sending 15k of these things here a year is that big of a deal. Its not like Lutz chose this over a firebird or whatever.

[Mike3800]

Is it 1973 again?
Can you order this in brown with simulated woodgrain on the side?
Can I pay at leas 35K for it new and have it be worth less than 10K in 3 years?
Oh... I hope it gets less than 12MPG!!

translated: worthless no selling steaming pile of cow dung

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

it's going to need to be whored out to rental agencies.

Rental cars are great, it's like getting an extended test drive without the annoying salesperson, although I would have to pass on the Pontiac cruck (this pickup car thing) if I needed to rent a car.

[Ajaxus]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Rental cars are great, it's like getting an extended test drive without the annoying salesperson, although I would have to pass on the Pontiac cruck (this pickup car thing) if I needed to rent a car.

Actually, on the subject of extended test drive, I heard a funny story here the other day about a local dealership. A family came out to test drive a car, got the keys..left.

Two weeks later they come back, drop off the keys and car. They used it like a rental for vacation. And technically when you do a test drive, you don't sign a contract stating when you will return it, they just "assume" it will be that same day.




Back on topic:

My real views on the car are as follows. For the most part I'm with Exodus, we can't expect much from GM since the G8 has yet to be released. That said, I'm not a fan of the design. The only advantage to the bed on it is a "vertical" advantage..in that they can carry taller items in the back. Mileage will be horrible, and RWD won't give it much of an advantage (AWD would be better if they wanted to get anything out of it with the whole "truck" hybrid bit IMO).

Overall, it is a niche car, it probably won't last that long. The only good thing Pontiac has in this is that it is more or less a trim level of the G8 and not it's own separate car. It will make carrying over parts and designs easier and they won't have to invest as much money on manufacturing it as they would had they designed it completely separately as it's own vehicle.

MY REAL .02