RSM strikes again!

[AaronGTR]

They aren't even in business anymore... but people are still dealing with the fallout. This time it's the urethane front suspension arm bushings I got from them. I rotated the tires a couple weeks ago, and started getting a noticeable pull to the left, mostly under acceleration. It was weird because it would only happen during medium to heavy acceleration, but when it would shift into 4th the car would lurch back to the right. So basically I kept having to make steering corrections. I rotated tires because the fronts were a lot more worn than the rears, so at first I thought the pull was just due to the tires being very worn into their position, and that it would go away.

Last night though I started noticing a jerk and a thunking noise when hitting the brakes at low speed, and it would do it repeatedly if I went on and off the brakes fast. So I decided to check it out today, and the bushings are shot. As you can see in the pics below, there is supposed to be a lip on the outside of the bushings that kind of sandwiches the control arms. All those lips are gone! The control arms have slid down around the rear vertical bushings, and on the right side the horizontal bushing is letting the control arm move in and out.





The right side goes over speed bumps around here the most, and I've been using this car as a daily driver since last July, albeit with some large breaks for engine work. My guess is that those bushings simply can't stand up to the repeated flexing of daily driving, and the lips cracked and fell off. I've noticed the rear trailing arm bushings are cracking as well, so I may replace those too.

I don't know if I want to just get new control arms though, or try replacing the bushings. There is nothing wrong with the ball joints or arms, and new control arms would cost me $137, but I don't have access to a press to press in rubber bushings. If I did bushings only I'd have to use more urethane bushings. I know supposedly the ones for the front j-body control arms will work, but I've never tried them myself. I found the Prothane ones for a 2000 cavalier (part # 7234), does anyone know if those are the correct ones? Those would only cost me $38. The only other thing I'm worried about of course, is how durable they will be. Of course, I suppose if they go bad again I can replace the control arms at that time if I want. Comments?


oh btw, I'll post pics of the carnage of the rsm bushings when I replace them.

[Malaclypse]

Here's my thought on the situation..

I don't think solid poly bushings are the correct design or material for the rear mount of the control arm.

There's alot of side loading on those bushings during normal driving or even with the car just sitting still. The factory bushings (as I'm sure you know) are steel sleeved and have a floating pin in the middle with a sectioned rubber bushing to allow for the flex of the control arm.

The best solution would probably be to invest in some solid spherical bushings as they'll be able to endure the proper movement of the front suspension. These bushings are available for Cobalts however I'm unsure of their fittment in an N-body. Its something to look into though as a permanent solution.

[><woj><]

Aaron, Prothane 7-234 are the correct ones. The larger prothane bushing is a one-piece, and the smaller one is a two-piece like the RSM one. You should be able to press in the large one with a vice, might not necessarily need a press. Also agreed that poly bushings aren't the best for daily driving and they're certainly not going to be as durable as rubber and will require more frequent replacement, but they do provide more stiffness than OEM rubber ones and still maintain some comfort over solid spherical bushings. How many miles did you get out of the RSM ones?

The choice of replacement will be up to you, stock replacement CAs will likely be less hassle in the future, but new poly bushing should also give you some miles, depends on how much use you plan to get out of the car.

[unchained_01]

7-234 is for aluminum control arms I don't think they will work for steel And they are chore to install. I screwed up my first set . I used a ring compressor and a king pin press to install mine. And lots of grease !!! I also have a set of Moog OEM bushings here for steel lowers And my local tire shop charges $25 to 40 to press them in
It all depends on what you want to do. If you want aluminum arms and prothane it will cost about 250+. (that's having a shop press them in). And the k6701 ball joints for them. Decisions decisions !!!

And if you have 50k on those IMO they are finished.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by unchained_01

7-234 is for aluminum control arms I don't think they will work for steel And they are chore to install. I screwed up my first set . I used a ring compressor and a king pin press to install mine. And lots of grease !!! I also have a set of Moog OEM bushings here for steel lowers And my local tire shop charges $25 to 40 to press them in
It all depends on what you want to do. If you want aluminum arms and prothane it will cost about 250+. (that's having a shop press them in). And the k6701 ball joints for them. Decisions decisions !!!

And if you have 50k on those IMO they are finished.

Are you sure about that? It doesn't say anything about that in their description, and I've never heard of a j-body with aluminum control arms. And in the installation instructions for those bushings it talks about pressing out a steel sleeve with the rear bushing... sounds exactly like what my arms had stock. It also talks about cleaning the arms up and painting if necessary to prevent rust... that wouldn't be necessary with aluminum. I also recently had a set of aluminum control arms that I was intending to use on my car, that I ended up giving to someone else because we needed them to fix his car... anyway the bushings didn't look any different from the ones on the steel ones. Neither did the ball joints for that matter...


But anyway... I don't know how many miles are on the RSM bushings. I need to go out and check my notes in my owners manual and see when I installed them. I do know they were pretty darn stiff, and the outer finish on them looked a little different than the Prothane ones. I kinda wonder if maybe they just weren't designed correctly and/or didn't use the right type of urethane?

I agree that they probably aren't the best design for actual free movement of the suspension arms. I've noticed some binding, or tightness rather, since I installed them. The rubber flexes easier, but I've also seen them split on either side of the center shaft from so much flexing over the years. I guess the decision is going to come down to how many miles I can get out of the urethane one versus the stock bushings, since they both will go bad eventually.

Money is an issue right now too though. IE I don't have much, and I also need new tires mounted and balanced, and I'm due for an alignment anyway. I'll need one for sure after fixing the control arms. I know I can't install new stock rubber bushings myself without a press, and new full control arms are going to run me $137 plus s/h. If I can get at least 30k out of the poly ones for $38 I'd rather do that.

[O1GAGT]

I would personally put the Prothane bushings in your steel control arms.
I could have sworn I saw on one of the grand am forums where someone installed them on steel control arms.

I installed the Prothane bushings in my aluminum control arms with a cheap A-frame press from harbor freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a...ress-1666.html
Unfortunately my car still isn't back on the road so I can't say how they feel or hold up.

[unchained_01]

Seriously I can't see GM designing 2 different bushings for the control arms. But you never know
I do know the ball joins are different between steel and aluminum
My stock arms and bushings are gone ,so I have to do mine also I should measure the new stock and the left over prothane bushings and see if there is a difference
But that will be a few days until I can do that

[young gun]

Ok I plan on getting aluminum control arms eventually and I want to just get this straight..

Prothane7-234 is J-body # for the Control arm bushings?
k6701 is the # for the aluminum arm's ball joint?
And what about the Sway bar link?

[AaronGTR]

Sway bar link is the same for both.



I'm kinda leaning towards just replacing the control arms now. I'm not sure I can get the one piece rear bushings in without a press, and I don't have access to a press or even a bench vise now. I'll be doing all this under a friends carport. It would be much less time and hassle to just swap out the arms. I just hate spending the extra $100 and going back to squishy rubber.

[stewartfn18]

aaron ill see tomorrow how much i can get the control arms for through work.

[AaronGTR]

Well, I went ahead and ordered the Prothane bushings and they got here today. I think they should work out much better than the RSM ones. Their design is much better. I'll explain with pics.

Here is the front horizontal bushing. It's two pieces with a metal insert similar to the RSM bushing.



Here's a key difference between them. The Prothane bushing has flutes cut around the inside of the insert bore, allowing them to hold grease to stay lubricated. Also or course, the Prothane bushings are black urethane instead of red, and are graphite impregnated so they are self lubricating and shouldn't squeak as much and last longer.



Close up of the flutes. The installation instructions call for greasing the insert bore, as well as the outside of the bushing where it goes in the arm, and the outside surfaces of the bushing where they would rotate against the sub-frame.



Side view of the rear vertical bushing. Where as the RSM bushing was very square and flat, the Prothane bushing has angled sides around the top and bottom.



Inside of the bushing where the insert goes. The center of the bushing is flush with the insert, and the holes flares out on both sides.



As you can see, that means the insert is held in the center, but has space around it on both ends. This is a far better design than the RSM one which holds the insert tight all the way around, allowing hardly any movement of the control arm without severe deformation of the bushing, which over time destroyed the urethane. The Prothane design should hold the arm tight around the center of the insert (which is bolted to the frame) and limit horizontal movement of the arm that would affect toe, while allowing the bushing to twist easier around the horizontal axis, letting the control arm move up and down as intended without too much bushing deformation.

[KhellendrosxS]

Aaron do those work with just the stamped steel arms or do they fit that aluminum ones too?

[Malaclypse]

That'll definitely take care of your problem.

Definitely a bettery design than what RSM was cranking out.

[WidbyJ]

I just had a set of prothanes installed in aluminum arms to upgrade my setup. They were older stock (red - yeah) but look identical to those pictured. Was a lot of work getting the arms back into the subframe, nice TIGHT fit (I used a hydraulic ram). Looks nice and feels great so far. Sadly I need to replace the steering rack before I can really test these out...

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by KhellendrosxS

Aaron do those work with just the stamped steel arms or do they fit that aluminum ones too?

Should fit both. I had a set of AL arms and the bushings looked the same as my steel ones. GM has no separate part numbers designated for bushings for aluminum or steel arms. Only for the different suspensions (FE2,FE3 "sport", FE4), and the only bushings that are different are actually the front ones. They list the front bushings for "w/sport" and "w/o sport", and the rear bushings are the same. I bet the sport fronts are just a harder durometer rubber.

Originally Posted by Malaclypse

That'll definitely take care of your problem.

Definitely a bettery design than what RSM was cranking out.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm anxious to get them installed now and see what difference there may be in the ride compared to the RSM bushings. Install should be tomorrow, if the weather cooperates.

Originally Posted by WidbyJ

I just had a set of prothanes installed in aluminum arms to upgrade my setup. They were older stock (red - yeah) but look identical to those pictured. Was a lot of work getting the arms back into the subframe, nice TIGHT fit (I used a hydraulic ram). Looks nice and feels great so far. Sadly I need to replace the steering rack before I can really test these out...

Yes, the red ones are still available according to the website I ordered from, but are special order. Some companies make red bushings of stiffer durometer urethane than their black ones, but according to Prothane there is no difference in stiffness in theirs. Only diff is the color and that the black ones have graphite in them. I ordered a set of urethane shifter bushings from the same store that I installed on a friends Honda for him, and they said the same thing about those for black vs red.

[KhellendrosxS]

Good to know. I have the jbody red urethane ones dancing around somewhere waiting to get pressed into a set of AL arms I snagged a few years back. I may go a different route.

[WidbyJ]

Tip - If you are going to use the AL arms I recommend having them 'Bead Blasted'. Makes them look great AND is supposed to harden the surface metal so that cracks won't form, strengthening the arm overall. Not too expensive IF you can find someone to do it (NOT sand or abrasives).

[AaronGTR]

Ok well, here's the carnage.

Passenger side rear bushing.


Front bushing.


Drivers side rear bushing.


Front bushing.


Passenger side after I got it out and everything fell off.


And the rear bushing after removal.

[AaronGTR]

Other side of the rear bushing.


One of the bushing sets after I got them out of the arm. Other side looked pretty much the same. For the most part the came out very easy, or just plain fell out.


The rubber end link bushings had a little permanent "smash" in them, from sitting so long between a super stiff sway bar and stiff suspension arm, and the slight angle between them. They were still serviceable for the most part though, and are cheap and easy to replace later if I want.


The two bolts that go through the rear sub-frame and bushings into the uni-body. I'm not certain but iirc the threads used to go all the way up and down. The bolts weren't loose so I don't know what would have made the threads wear down in that spot like that. That spot is actually above where the bushing sleeve rides, in the boxed in chassis section between the bushing and where the nut sits on top. I don't know if it would really be necessary to replace them either? I know I don't want to if I don't have to because those bolts are $21+ a piece.




I didn't get any pics of the new bushings installed in the arms. I got interrupted by a thunder storm and had to stop for a bit, then go out later to finish up and I got all wet and dirty and didn't feel much like getting the camera messy. They looked pretty much the same though.

One thing to note is, you definitely need a press to get the rear bushing in! It's pretty stiff. Luckily my friends neighbor is a mechanic and was home, so we ran up to his shop to use his press quick then came back and finished installing them. Otherwise I would have been stuck. One difference between these and the RSM rear bushing is the RSM one was designed to fit inside the metal casing of the stock bushing. IE if you order a stock rear bushing, you get the bushing inside a round metal band that has to be pressed into your control arm. The metal band is a little wider and sharper edged than the arm though, and might not let the bushing flex enough, and that might be one of the reasons the RSM's failed. Their diameter was made to fit inside that casing though, and if it wasn't there they would fit loose in the arm, so you have to use them. Again, just a poor design. The Prothane rear bushing is a little smaller diameter, and the width of the notch in the side is just the right size for the control arm to fit into with the metal casing removed. You can remove the casing yourself without a press (if you have the bushing cut out already) by cutting the inside of the band with a hack saw or sawzall. Stop when you just get through it, and pop the band apart from the arm by hammering a screw driver between them at one side of the cut, then it will fall out. If you still have the rubber bushing in it though, it's easier to just press the old one out then press in the new Prothane bushing.


I cleaned up the arms a little and threw some black primer on them to try and keep them from rusting too bad. Didn't have time to fully paint them and let them dry, plus it was too humid out. So far I have to say the ride is much better! Better than even when the RSM bushings were new I'd say. I think the RSM's bound up the arm movement too much and were too stiff, and they squeaked a lot. These feel more tight as opposed to stiff... it's hard to explain but they are definitely stiff while still seeming to allow enough movement. They don't seem as noisy or harsh when I hit a bump in the road either. Overall, definitely worth the $38 and time for install. As for the rear RSM bushings, I think I need to replace the two rear bushings on the trailing arms as well (the ones on either side of the hub). I remember seeing some cracks in them, and although they haven't fallen apart yet, I think they also are too stiff and make the suspension bind. The front trailing arm bushing and the lateral link bushings may be ok for now. They only travel on one axis, and are pretty well inclosed, so I'll have to check them and see. The front half of the rear trailing arm bushings can't be bought separate from GM though (you have to order the entire arm) so I'm going to go to the local pick a part and see if I can get some off a junker.

[unchained_01]

Now I know for sure they fit steel arms